Is napping always pain related

V

vicksey

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 November 2007
Messages
529
Visit site
Is napping always pain related or do you think horses sometimes get into bad habits?

Why do you think a horse still nap after years of being with the same owner, at the same home with a good home and routine?

The horse is in great condition, has regular physio, made to measure saddle regularly checked, dentist every 9 months, owner has tried a variety of bits and bitless bridles. This horse has a lovely home, good variety of work, not over/under worked, good quality food and hay, lots of turn out and good company. The horse only ever naps out hacking (hardly ever with company, usually when he is on his own, not a spooky horse by nature) and it is as if he suddenly just decides he's not going any further, could be after half and hour or 2 mins of being off the yard. I cant see any reason he should still nap after all this time.

To add, the horse has never been beaten or equally allowed to take the mick! Any opinions.
 
No I don't think attitude is always pain related.

I think we know our horses personalities and are likely to know if there a willing obliging ride and if that suddenly changes all the normal checks should be done.

My last horse napped for england and there was nothing wrong with him, he was just a complete ****** who argued about everything and napping was a way of him trying to assert his authority.
 
Some just do - no rhyme nor reason to it! If we could work out why we could make a fortune. It would never cross the mind of some horses and others will nap as easily as falling off a log.
 
Thanks guys, i thought there may have been some not very nice replies about this post.

Ive had my boy since 4yr old, bought him on quietly and kindly, but assertivley all the same. We have a great bond and he is my best pal, but it always plays on my mind why he naps. We can go weeks without an episode, hack alone for hours, then some days we cant even get down the same road he has been doing down for 5 years! V frustrating! He napped the first day I ever rode him but put it down to him being young!

How do you tackle your nappers?
 
My answer is not much help really because I gave him away. He was directly line bred from two olympic sjers and imo was too highly bred so was never gonna be trainable.

I'm sure your boy is just having a funny five if he's doing it on familiar routes. Horses have off days aswell as people and maybe he just doesn't want to go there some days. I wouldn't worry tbh unless it becomes more frequent or dangerous.
 
Sometimes they are taking the mick, but sometimes I think it is just something in their head. Sometimes it is definitely fear related too imho, perhaps they suddenly realise they're alone and vulnerable, a bit of belated herd instinct kicks in suddenly. These ones need reassurance and firmness imho.
Tim Stockdale showed a good little trick for a horse who spins and/or won't go the way you want - use a short stick and hold it (or maybe lightly tap it) high up his neck near his head on the side he wants to spin/turn to. It's a big deterrent but doesn't frighten them. I know a few people who have used it since I reported on him showing this at the Lect/Demo at Vale View, and it has worked like a charm on their horses...
I had one napper who was an absolute witch, she'd fixate on something in the distance (1/2 mile or more away, something she'd been past 100 times) and just WOULD not go further. she would stand there forever, staring with her head up and her heart pounding, or fight, rear, spin, try to run off, run backwards, threaten to jump in the dyke if i tried to turn her. I tried everything, and I'm no wuss. Nothing worked apart from getting off and leading her. Ridiculous. She'd do it going towards home, too... now that really is infuriating beyond belief. Compared to her, everything else is a breeze tbh!
 
I don't think so... some horses nap due to bad attitude and stubbornness, sometimes it can be down to the horse having no self confidence or belief in itself. It helps if you can differentiate between whether the horse is napping due to stubbornness, genuine fear or pain, they seem to exert different 'symptoms'. The cob I ride responds very well to voice commands, so a well timed growl and lots of leg seem to get him through the napping, followed with a change in voice tone and lots of praise when he finally moves forwards.
 
Nope. I got my tb when he was 4, napped in the arena, at gates, hacking in company/alone. He was just a stubborn git although he was a completely different horse after a year and just napped on hacks when alone, never spooked and wasnt pain related he was just a stubborn pig, as my vet kindly informed me of :p I had him for 3 years but the hacking alone was improving with age.
 
Yes very infuriating kerilli, and your right it is as if suddenly he realises he's on his own, we just end up going home a million time faster if I challange him. So I just get off and walk for a min then usually he forgets about his tantrum and we carry on!

I like the use of the stick, it sounds harsh but I think if i just held it there next to his shoulder it may help. Things is, he is not naturally a spooky or jumpy, or nervous horse (a plastic bag once actaully blew right in his face and he hardly noticed) and never just stands and stares he literally put the brakes and and spins. I can stop him, (just about) and he would happily stand there for hours facing the other direction but just wont turn round. Ah well, Ive coped for 5 years, looks like im destined to have a napper!!
 
vicksey said:
Yes very infuriating kerilli, and your right it is as if suddenly he realises he's on his own, we just end up going home a million time faster if I challange him. So I just get off and walk for a min then usually he forgets about his tantrum and we carry on!

I like the use of the stick, it sounds harsh but I think if i just held it there next to his shoulder it may help. Things is, he is not naturally a spooky or jumpy, or nervous horse (a plastic bag once actaully blew right in his face and he hardly noticed) and never just stands and stares he literally put the brakes and and spins. I can stop him, (just about) and he would happily stand there for hours facing the other direction but just wont turn round. Ah well, Ive coped for 5 years, looks like im destined to have a napper!!
Click to expand...



Ha Ha take a good book. In all seriousness one of my horses trainers entered the school for the horse to slam the breaks on so he got out a book and just waited. Amazing how quickly the horse got bored and moved forward.
 
My mare naps, its not pain related as she has had every check possible, but she is dutch and apparently wouldnt of been hacked out much, she is also a major worrier and doesnt have alot of confidence going in front or on her own but she is gradually getting better, she spins and always to the right so i just keep a good hold of my left rein
 
vicksey said:
Thanks guys, i thought there may have been some not very nice replies about this post.

Ive had my boy since 4yr old, bought him on quietly and kindly, but assertivley all the same. We have a great bond and he is my best pal, but it always plays on my mind why he naps. We can go weeks without an episode, hack alone for hours, then some days we cant even get down the same road he has been doing down for 5 years! V frustrating! He napped the first day I ever rode him but put it down to him being young!

How do you tackle your nappers?
Click to expand...


:D You and me both!!! I've had my lad since 3 (poss even 2 according to my dentist!) and he's now nearly 10!! He napped for years but I didn't push it because I was A) Scared! and B) lucky enough to have people to hack with and in company it wasn't an issue!! So moved yards 2 years ago to a place with fields to hack through and worked on the napping. LONG story short, we can now hack out alone...BUT just this weekend we had an episode of him rearing and trying to spin and bolt with me. So it's never cured and it will always be something I live with. Yesterday I schooled him for 40 minutes then took him out to the field we'd had the problem with on Sunday and I got a picture in my brain of us going over the field, to the gate we're reared at and walking through that gate with no problems. Okay we did go across the field sideways and my legs were killing me from keeping them on BUT we got through the gate and managed a circuit of the field alone! Then a friend joined me and we went' twice around the field again in trot and canter. I've no doubt I'll have problems again but it's how you deal with it at the time and how you treat it afterwards that matters.

I just accept it's part of my horse...it's annoying but I've got a fit healthy happy horse I can take anywhere (doesn't nap away from home), he travels like a dream, does XC, jumping and anything I ask of him and is always a pleasure to have around so a little bit of napping in the scheme of things is nothing to me. ;)
 
i tried the waiting game with my mare, even took sandwiches in my pocket. hours later, she still wouldn't move forward, was still terrified. mental.
if you do decide to try the short stick thing, TS used it right up the top of the neck near the head, and it worked a treat.
 
kerilli said:
Sometimes they are taking the mick, but sometimes I think it is just something in their head. Sometimes it is definitely fear related too imho, perhaps they suddenly realise they're alone and vulnerable, a bit of belated herd instinct kicks in suddenly. These ones need reassurance and firmness imho.
Tim Stockdale showed a good little trick for a horse who spins and/or won't go the way you want - use a short stick and hold it (or maybe lightly tap it) high up his neck near his head on the side he wants to spin/turn to. It's a big deterrent but doesn't frighten them. I know a few people who have used it since I reported on him showing this at the Lect/Demo at Vale View, and it has worked like a charm on their horses...
I had one napper who was an absolute witch, she'd fixate on something in the distance (1/2 mile or more away, something she'd been past 100 times) and just WOULD not go further. she would stand there forever, staring with her head up and her heart pounding, or fight, rear, spin, try to run off, run backwards, threaten to jump in the dyke if i tried to turn her. I tried everything, and I'm no wuss. Nothing worked apart from getting off and leading her. Ridiculous. She'd do it going towards home, too... now that really is infuriating beyond belief. Compared to her, everything else is a breeze tbh!
Click to expand...

Any possibility of bit of clarity on this technique? Do hit, tap, once, twice, and when exactly ie when they are due to nap, during or just after???
 
I tried the technique whilst hacking on my own the other night, with great success.

Could have been a fluke as he doesn;t always nap, but never the less we had a lovely evening hack togther without any fall outs. I held a short stick in one hand and my reins in the other and just kept my leg on and reminding my horse that the whip was there every now and again, by tapping very very lightly on his thigh. He was not scared or put off, just kept a nice forward going pace, not rushing or backward thinking at all. Lets hope it continues to work!!!
 
I have tried everything with my nappy 5 yr old! the softly softly approach, smacking and being really firm, and spending hours leading him, praising him for good behaviour and any forward movement and after 6 months i still feel like we are going 5 steps forward and 10 back, it is really really disheartening, i love him to bits but boy does he have attitude!

He has improved whilst hacking out but he is a nightmare in our school, some days it is like he has never set foot in the place and he argues constantly, spins and half rears and spooks at the slightest thing. over the last 2 weeks i have had a professional coming to ride him with me chasing him round with the lunge whip, he isn't bothered about being smacked have even tried spurs but that dosn;t bother him! the only thing that makes him go forward in a fashion is the lunge whip behind him, obviously i dont want to rely on this all the time as a lot of the time i am on my own with him.

I have even had the vet come to do a health check on him and have had his teeth done 3 times in the last 10 months! there has been an improvement since i have been leading him out and long reining him but he is still bad in the school and just switches off and dosn't listen to me , i have tried everything to get forward motion but he is still very hard work.

The professional was stumped and said that he is using the spooking/nappying as a evasion not to work and go forward as he is definatley not scared as some days he will go and other days he just says NO! she has recommend him to be sent away for a few weeks to a really strong rider to get him sorted before he gets to dangerous!

I have decided before i go down this route to get the vet out again this week and have some blood tests done and a full exam just to make sure he isnot in any pain before i send him away as i would feel terrible if it was a pain issue!

I dont really want to send him away but i am at the end of my tether with him, so if vet says he is ok then he will go to a gentleman friend of mine who trains hunters/showjumpers to work with him to see if he can get him out of his nappyness. I bought him knowing he had issues as the person who backed him had almost given up on him and although he has improved quite a bit the last couple of months he has started to go backwards again. He just seems that he wants to be boss all the time, when we are in company he is fine although he wont take the lead most of the time just when he feels like it and on the way home!
 
nope i dont thing its always pain related either though this can make the situation worse. My mare is a napper and until i moved yards she would not hack out in front or alone.

I tried all the usual techniques to no avail. She was really scared and you could hear her heart pounding on most occasions and she would just run backwards or rear up to avoid going forwards.

I found that staying really relaxed myself , encouraging her forwards with lost of praise and a bit of leg helped and also using my reins either side of her neck to get her moving forwards. I also did quite a few sessions of turning her round and making her go backwards then turning her back round and sending her forwards with my reins and voice helped.

I also spent ages encouraging her to walk up to objects such as bins, tractors etc and praisng her loads when she sniffs them. This has helped loads with her tractor fear - we are still working on the bins!

She now hacks out on her own on the familiar routes and takes a bit of encouragement on the not so familiar routes but I think she has just learnt to trust me and I have learnt to trust her and she now seems to be a much happier horse. I accept the fact she still prefers to follow another horse in company and let her if she wants this - I also ensure she goes out in front and out on her own once a week just to make sure she doesnt forget!

I've no idea what helped her the most - maybe a combination of methods, maybe the fact she is living in a herd and is just generally happier? Who knows but it has taken a long time - 2 years to get to this stage so patience or maybe acceptance that she is a napper is key?
 
one of the guys I know had a horse that napped and it was getting worse. Had the vet take a look at his eyes and found out the problem, he had nearly gone blind in one of them.
 
Definitely not always any real reason for it.
My horses started napping badly in april, I had had him since the previous june and never had a hint of it before then one day he just started although he has always been very opinionated. And majorly so, rearing, spinning, in company in the school always when hacking alone it was ridiculous and I tried all different methods.
I can nip it in the bud pretty quickly now in the school or in company, hacking alone he will kick up a fuss at the end of the path leading out and I do find sitting there making him face the right way and boring him into submission works best. This wasn't possible before as he would just flip. As a general rule I try to distract him and keeps his mind on things then don't make too much fuss about the blips.
That being said when he was really naughty I smacked him every time he reared and had to sit it out - not fun.

The main thing is that with persistents you will get through it, they do improve when they realize the behaviour doesn't get them what they want. I think certain horses are just more herd bound than others especially if they like to think they are the boss.

As for tricks:
Voice & clicking really works well with mine in the school if I sense he may be thinking abaout being a div.
Shaking a bottle of pebbles
Lots of lunging/ ground work to make them listen to you.
Hacking in company & leap frogging so that he takes the lead frequently.
 
Definately not. Recently bought a youngster who faced with his nightmare (water : puddles etc) would stand up, spin round etc - typical Nappy behaviour. someone recommended me to try Michael Peace (think equus). He came out and 2 hours later we had a horse that would trot through water jumps and has just been out with my 14 year old daughter and plodded thro big puddles. The problem was not so much fear as an unwillingness to think about what had been asked and behaviour that he had previously got away with. Michael resolved this and following his visit all nappiness has been resolved! To me it was important that whipping & bullying was not involved and to say that Michael was patient and not agressive towards him . I have never spent so much on one training session and never had such value for money. I do believe he could help you to make your horse the one you would like. Good Luck
 
Horses nap because they're uncomfortable BUT - and it's a big one - that discomfort can come from all manner of sources from pain to fear to simple unwillingness/habitual disinclination to do as asked. Some horses get in the habit of saying "no" when faced with anything uncomfortable, even if that means just questions outside their comfort zones, so it takes very little for them to show the behaviour. On the other side, many horses in pain are never nappy, or are so used to doing as asked it never occurs to them to take that way out (which doesn't mean they're any less possibly in pain) so you can't draw a simple conclusion. It has as much to do with temperament, training and circumstances as it has to do with health and soundness.

Often it's a combination of factors and even sorting one of them will improve the situation. By the same token, if a horse has "learned" that a certain activity is uncomfortable, solving the discomfort may not be enough to make the horse change its mind without other reinforcement.

What I can say, is if a horse is showing signs that the behaviour is pain related, even a "clean bill of health" doesn't necessarily convince me there's no pain. I've just seen so many horses pronounced fine at the time then subsequent events proved otherwise. But I've also seen many horses with issues that can't be resolved learn/be taught to operate with their comfort zones, perhaps with different management, and successfully go on to do at least some sort of job. So NOT getting a completely clean bill of health doesn't necessarily mean the situation can't be addressed, either.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top