Is old age an excuse for a horse being emaciated?

ImmyS

ImmyS

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First of all this is not an owner bashing thread. Just a general wondering.

There is a pony in a field near me that I often see when dog walking. The pony has plenty of grass and company - is always grazing and generally seems pretty content pottering around the field. I'm guessing it is late 20's - 30's as it has been there for as long as I can remember. The pony however would no doubt be a 1 on a body condition score.

If it was mine I would probably put to sleep as being that thin surely must be uncomfortable and painful, but I'm interested to hear opinions. If a horse/pony seems content is it OK? Or would you put to sleep if they can no longer keep condition despite seeming happy and eating well?
 
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Its difficult when they get old. Its not an excuse for them to have a condition score of 0 but I have a horse who is at least 31 years old.

She has 3 acres of very lush grazing, is feed a hard feed every day and is on medication for cushings, which can put her off her hard feed at certain times of the year!! She came out of winter looking skinny, not as bad as the horse you are referring too but for her, its slim. she was always a very good doer and for the last 3 years I've said that this will be her last summer! but come October she tends to get this new lease of life and its like she's telling me she isn't ready to go.

however, I do honestly think that this will be her last summer! her immune system is defo getting lower, despite being on 3 tablets a day for cushings! she managed to get mites a month or so ago and has had a few skin irritations, which none of the other horses have been affected by, so I can only assume that its because of the cushings!

So maybe the owner of this horse is just the same as me, maybe if the horse is still happily grazing with its friends, she wants to give her the summer letting her go.

This was her a month ago!
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156707875560467&set=pcb.10156707875800467&type=3&theater
 
you've said it yourself the horse has company and plenty of grass and seems really content.
If I had issues with my own old horse I would only pts if the vet said the horse was uncomfortable or in pain.
 
Thank you for your reply. I understand it is tough as they get older. I'm fortunate enough to never have needed to make that decision for an oldie. As you say in this case the owner could well be giving the pony one more summer so as I said this wasn't to bash anyone. Just an interesting discussion point.

Your horse looks grand for her age :)
 
Some owners won't "let go." They see the horse grazing and up on its feet and think it must be OK. Eventually it would get weaker and weaker and essentially starve to death as either it hasn't good enough teeth to masticate the food or has digestive problems and can't absorb the food. Obviously this is more common in the winter, as at least in summer it can get at a good quantity of feed.

I'm not saying that this is the case here OP, but keep an eye on its condition. YOu can contact the BHS to help.
 
Old horses loose their muscle bulk and some look awful in extreme old age despite careful care and eating well .
Welfare officers are well used to be called to emaciated horses to find a well cared for much loved oldie who is well managed despite looking awful .
Just being looking thin is no reason to be PTS if the oldie is happy and settled in loving home
 
Goldenstar said:
Old horses loose their muscle bulk and some look awful in extreme old age despite careful care and eating well .
Welfare officers are well used to be called to emaciated horses to find a well cared for much loved oldie who is well managed despite looking awful .
Just being looking thin is no reason to be PTS if the oldie is happy and settled in loving home
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This - sometimes a well loved oldie is actually under vetinary care even though they look awful.

If you are worried, a welfare officer popping in to make sure the horse has all needs cared for won't go amiss for peace of mind but there may not be anything wrong with the horse other than old age.
 
Just because its thin with a condition score of 1 doesnt mean its in pain and should be euthanised. As long as it seems happy, leave it live out his life happily with its mates, munching grass as you say its doing. And why dont people chat to owners more before posting on social media? (Not aimed particularly at you, OP, just a general observation - theres to much "A horse at my livery yard...." A pony in the next door field....." "should I report my neighbour for....." etc. Have we lost the art of talking to people?
 
I take it that as long as a horse can lie down and get up, and is still eating and drinking then its happy and painfree enough. If its old it may well be underweight, rugs and a thick coat in my first ponys later years hid his very poor condition underneath. But as long as the horse is cared for and a vet is happy with it, its no one elses business.

I don't mind if old horse get a bit creaky and uncomfortable, it happens to us all, we have cared for more oldies than anything else, and you always know when it time, and its not necessarily if they're a hat rack.
 
OP - you could almost have been describing H in your thread. He has a low body condition score, but he has three feeds a day is turned out 24/7 and is 38 years old. The owner you are talking about could well be doing what I am, in consultation with his vet, we are taking life as it comes now, and as long as he is happy mooching about and well in himself then we will keep him going; however it has been agreed (this hurts so much typing this) that when the autumn comes if he hasn't picked up and it looks like the winter is going to be a struggle for him then we will let him go. As ever the cliche 'a day to soon is better than a day too late' will come into effect. As present he is perfectly happy just wandering in and out for his meals and he has lovely grass and shade under the trees, he may not look so great but until the day comes when he tells us enough is enough he'll have a safe and loving home eating what he likes and getting all his normal cuddles and treats.

btw - thanks stencilface for your post - that sums it all up very well.
 
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3OldPonies said:
OP - you could almost have been describing H in your thread. He has a low body condition score, but he has three feeds a day is turned out 24/7 and is 38 years old. The owner you are talking about could well be doing what I am, in consultation with his vet, we are taking life as it comes now, and as long as he is happy mooching about and well in himself then we will keep him going; however it has been agreed (this hurts so much typing this) that when the autumn comes if he hasn't picked up and it looks like the winter is going to be a struggle for him then we will let him go. As ever the cliche 'a day to soon is better than a day too late' will come into effect. As present he is perfectly happy just wandering in and out for his meals and he has lovely grass and shade under the trees, he may not look so great but until the day comes when he tells us enough is enough he'll have a safe and loving home eating what he likes and getting all his normal cuddles and treats.
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That's lovely to hear. Sorry you may have to come to that hard decision soon. x
 
stormox said:
Just because its thin with a condition score of 1 doesnt mean its in pain and should be euthanised. As long as it seems happy, leave it live out his life happily with its mates, munching grass as you say its doing. And why dont people chat to owners more before posting on social media? (Not aimed particularly at you, OP, just a general observation - theres to much "A horse at my livery yard...." A pony in the next door field....." "should I report my neighbour for....." etc. Have we lost the art of talking to people?
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Just to say that I wouldn't talk to the owner because in this case they are well cared for and it's not my business. It was more just a general question about people's opinion on putting to sleep in this situation. Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned this particular horse, but was just adding a bit of context.
 
ImmyS said:
That's lovely to hear. Sorry you may have to come to that hard decision soon. x
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Thanks ImmyS. Its the decision that all of us with oldies have to face sooner or later :( and I for one am hoping for later, but H is getting a bit wobblier on his legs now and although he still gets up and down ok while the weather is warm I and the vet have concerns that a cold night could be his undoing if he got too stiff to be able to get back up. But you never know - he's proved us wrong before - about 6 years ago we thought he might be having his last summer and he picked up hugely towards winter so we let him carry on and until this year he's looked pretty good. It's really only this year that he's lost so much condition.

Interestingly and more that slightly worryingly an acquaintance from a nearby yard asked how he was doing as they've lost about 5 oldies this year so far who suddenly lost a lot of condition, so maybe there's something going wrong on a local level with the soil, air or something that none of us understand. This yard is only about a mile away, so it is of concern to me, if this is the case then I hope whatever it is sorts itself out!!!!!
 
The lady who owns my mare has a 30 year old Irish Draft x.

Last summer I noticed he had lost weight significantly. They insisted that he was happy and spends all day eating the grass so would be fine. He came into last winter almost 80kgs down on his current weight today!

He has had some teeth out and has to have soaked hard feed. I kept an eye on him and watched his behaviour in the field. He wasn't even eating the grass. He was simply ripping at it with his front teeth, mushing it about and spitting it out. From a distance he looked like he was happily grazing, but infact was eating nothing at all.

With a complete feed change, he now has 3-4 meals a day of soaked mush, he has gained all the weight back and looks fantastic. He still spends his time out in the fields, but is supplemented with so much extra feed and hay replacer that it doesn't matter if he's not able to eat the grass. It took a good 6 months to get him back to the proper weight.

I think had I not kept an eye on him, he may well not be here today as he would have gradually became weaker and weaker. He's sound and in good health other than his teeth and still hacks out now.

I think it's entirely dependent on what is causing the horse to be thin in the first place.
 
Old horses do get less efficient at maximising what they are getting from their food, but there is nothing inevitable about it. Could be teeth, could be Cushings, could be pain................my 34 yr old couldn't ingest grass due to having lost most of her molars, and without molars they can't grind grass or forage to begin the process. She lived on a hay replacer diet - if I had left her on the grass she would have wasted away. Depends on whether the owners care enough to give him the essential checks and find out why.
 
I had this issue with my Misty who I PTS 3 years ago, she'd lost her teeth, couldn't eat hay, had 3 big trugs of slop a day, had meds for cushings, had 4 feeds of high energy food, she was thin, but she was content and happy in herself.

When the time came that she wasn't - that was when I made the decision.
 
luckyoldme said:
you've said it yourself the horse has company and plenty of grass and seems really content.
If I had issues with my own old horse I would only pts if the vet said the horse was uncomfortable or in pain.
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I'm sorry, but wouldn't you, yourself know if the horse was uncomfortable or in pain? If you've had one for years and years surely you should know them inside out and wouldn't need a vet to tell you what you should be doing.
 
Maesfen said:
I'm sorry, but wouldn't you, yourself know if the horse was uncomfortable or in pain? If you've had one for years and years surely you should know them inside out and wouldn't need a vet to tell you what you should be doing.
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The objectivity of a 3rd party when you are so emotionally involved can be very useful. Also when changes are very gradual an outsider can sometimes pick up things which have occurred very slowly prior to them becoming obvious to someone who sees the horse twice or more every day. A vet or other knowledgeable outsider can be useful in decision making.
 
Old unworked horses can look quite poor but when you look at them, it's muscle lacking and they still have a good body condition.
 
Goldenstar said:
Old horses loose their muscle bulk and some look awful in extreme old age despite careful care and eating well .
Welfare officers are well used to be called to emaciated horses to find a well cared for much loved oldie who is well managed despite looking awful .
Just being looking thin is no reason to be PTS if the oldie is happy and settled in loving home
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I 100% agree! You can't just say 'PTS' because you assume it's 'uncomfortable.' If it is grazing, behaving settled and happy then it has quality of life.
 
Maesfen said:
I'm sorry, but wouldn't you, yourself know if the horse was uncomfortable or in pain? If you've had one for years and years surely you should know them inside out and wouldn't need a vet to tell you what you should be doing.
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Totally agree with this Maesfen........ None of mine would get this far either. Personal choice I know but I would not keep one this long just for the sake of it.
 
Ditchjumper2 said:
Totally agree with this Maesfen........ None of mine would get this far either. Personal choice I know but I would not keep one this long just for the sake of it.
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Me too I would ashamed of myself if it took the vet to tell me .
I have never had a vet tell me a horses needs to be PTS it's always been me ringing them to come and do it .
 
Goldenstar said:
Me too I would ashamed of myself if it took the vet to tell me .
I have never had a vet tell me a horses needs to be PTS it's always been me ringing them to come and do it .
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I usually have had a veterinary investigation, and at the end much depends on the prognosis - if a horse has something that will improve with treatment, it depends on how invasive that treatment has to be. I always ask a vets opinion, without one you might be writing off unnecessarily
 
A 31 yo horse is probably equivalent to a lady in her 70's. How well do you want her to look?

We have a 31 and 35 yr old ponies at our yard and they both look "well" for their age. Neither have all their teeth so hay is a no-no. Shorter grass is preferable but not too short or it balls up in their cheeks. Both look swaybacked but they are old ladies and are shiny and clear eyed. They don't charge around, they amble and occasionally trot. They are sound.

All those years serving, they are enjoying life in a herd.

Emaciation is a diagnosis only a vet can give.
 
Having had two in the 30's ( one tb with a history of laminitis and one Heinz 57 with cushings) or does become a bit of a dilemma as they drop more weight each year. There does have to be an understanding though, that like very old people there comes a time were they are not as muscly and carrying weight like they did before.

As long as they are being properly cared for and the owner knows when to make the call then don't worry. I would openly say I feel regret that I left it maybe 2 weeks too long with my old tb. The vet said he was the oldest tb he had ever met, but we had got to the point of feeding him bran mash to keep weight on. He just didn't have enough teeth to get enough forage into him, so we had to let him go. I was young and it was my first horse, but I will remember that.
 
Luci07 said:
Old unworked horses can look quite poor but when you look at them, it's muscle lacking and they still have a good body condition.
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No one would want a condition score of 1, but for an elderly horse loss of muscle and the fact that the fat pads are differently distributed with age can make them look at first glance worse than what they are.
For the last six years I have had a field of aged animals, one by one they have been PTS but not because of weight loss until now. I have a mare that I have tried my hardest keep weight on over the winter, until it happens I think know one can understand how disheartening it is despite using every thing I can think of including growing barley grass so she has it fresh daily. She has been checked and there is nothing mechanically wrong with her, she's sound and the herd boss, but she does not even put weight on in summer now, so she has to go when I can pluck up the courage. I do not want her to get to the point that she is a walking bag of bones with a very glossy coat. She feels the cold and the slightest change in the weather and she is shivering.
I have seen old ponies left in fields because no one will make the decision, one poor thing although not thin just existed ignored by all the others with no social interaction until finally nature did the kindest thing.
 
Goldenstar said:
Old horses loose their muscle bulk and some look awful in extreme old age despite careful care and eating well .
Welfare officers are well used to be called to emaciated horses to find a well cared for much loved oldie who is well managed despite looking awful .
Just being looking thin is no reason to be PTS if the oldie is happy and settled in loving home
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Yes, a friend of mine had a pony like this. He was 35 had Cushings and his teeth were a problem but every day I saw that little pony given the very best care and attention. He was happy mooching about in the field with his elderly pals, with the sun on his back. He was a thin as a lath really. We all looked out for him and reported anything we saw that didn't seem quite right to his owner. In the end he had gut problems and was PTS.
 
There is a difference between thin and emaciated.
You should be able to improve on emaciated with a. Bit of TLC but of course, one person's thin may be another's emaciated. Perceptions of a healthy weight have changed over the years and many people these days see anything other than well covered, emaciated.
 
I know two very thin horses both in their late twenties one is not cared for properly, is tired now and is constantly hungry as the owners fear of laminitis outweighs their view of this poor horse. The other is bright eyed and bushy tailes is still very thin has cushings and recently been diagnosed with EMS so has been brought back into work out of a long retirement and the old trout manages to bog off with the kid riding her the other day galloped full tilt up the field not even puffing when she arrived back with me. Think she was reliving the dream of Pony club camp and 9 year old girls. Luckily the very novice child thought it was funny. The first I would PTS without question the second although a similar weight is quite obviously still loving life
 
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