Is riding cruel?

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muffinino

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I think not but some do. Whilst doing a search for synthetic tack I found this little article on a vegan site.

http://www.vegetarianbaby.com/articles/equestrian.shtml

The author is in a dilemma because, as a vegan, she says hard core animal rights people see her as cruel for keeping any kind of pet, but as a horse owner fellow horsey people get annoyed by her views (as did I). My favourite bit is:

Sometimes I'm sitting on my horse, feeling guilty that maybe I'm hurting her. But the feeling often disappears as her enthusiasm comes out. That's right, many horses thoroughly enjoy being ridden!
No poop, Sherlock!

I was also amused by:

I also believe horses shouldn't be jumping anything higher than their front legs.

I'd like her to tell that to an enthusiastic jumper - nobody seems to have told the horses!

I think she's torn between two ideals, but interestingly in her article about synthetic tack she talks about English/hunt riders, implying that she is giving them advice - a contradiction, surely? I do agree with her that rodeos are cruel and that some people train / treat their horses badly, but that doesn't make riding in itself cruel. I can't imagine that horses at Olympic level would jump the heights they do if they didn't want to.
 
A horse is mechanically capable of jumping the height of its poll. Wheather they feel like it, need to or can do it with a rider is another question!

Most of my horses don't like being ridden because they would rather be driven. Not that riding is cruel, they would just like driving better because they have nothing on their backs and they have more freedom.
 
thats interesting Yorkshire Lass - is that definately true? Presumeably some can jump more than that? Stroller etc most have jumped a bit more than that? I'd love it if my lad could do that, never really sue how high he could go!
 
Oooooh this kind of thing makes me mad.

She wants to do a bit more research before inflicting her views on the world.

Yes I do agree with a few of the points she makes, but lets face it she has picked up on some of the extreeme negative examples out there.

Did horses and the world come into existance in living memory? NO, did they evolve over time, YES.
So are horses designed to eat grass (as we know it) Hmmm me thinks not.

I am so angry, but I am going to refrain from saying any more before I inadvertantly (sp?) upset the veggies and vegans out there.

No issues with you guys, just the author of this 'article'
 
What surprises me on that (and I mostly skim-read it) is that she omits top level dressage. Personally I have seen a lot of cruelty in that field.

When you consider the horse's pure talent and the need for top SJers to keep their horses in tip top condition you can see that they are receiving fabulous care, they are allowed to express themselves as you see them bucking like stink whilst some of these fabulous jockeys sit them effortlessly. Of course they are a little stir-crazy sometimes. But well. They will not jump if beaten up much around the fences will they?

In dressage, I have heard (not seen I admit) of a horse being taken to the woods after a not so good comp, and beaten with chains, by the trainer, the owner/rider did not intervene. What is shocking is that the horse went on to improve.

I'd say its not cruel to ride.

How if we all give up?
How if hunting submits to the ban enough to lay down tools?
Sadly some top competitors have a fast turnover of mounts, but then there are many many amateurs waiting to take them on....
 
Have to say i think most horses thrive on being ridden.

Im sure some are in pain, either due to badly fitting tack or lameness issues that go unnotived. Alternatively i dont like to see extremely overweight riders on extremely under-sized horses as i think thats unfair. However, physical issues aside, i think most horses ridden life! Sure they all have their grumpy days and im sure monotiny can sink in if they have to do the same thing too much but id never consider riding to be cruel.
 
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In dressage, I have heard (not seen I admit) of a horse being taken to the woods after a not so good comp, and beaten with chains, by the trainer, the owner/rider did not intervene. What is shocking is that the horse went on to improve.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's ridiculous. How is a horse expected to associate a beating with it's bad performance. A classic example of humans thinking like a human would and not how a horse would. Someone should beat them with chains after they stuff up and see how they like it, Grrrr!
 
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A classic example of humans thinking like a human would and not how a horse would.

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Oh I agree! At a HT earlier this year my OH said to Muffinino "Why can't she just teach him to behave" He just does not get it that horses do not think like humans.
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We still laugh about it now.
 
Hmmmm....I don't know what it is about the article....but I have a nagging feeling that she MAY not have any scientific evidence to back up her claims....or even any evidence...in fact, I'd hazard a guess that her article is based purely on figments of her imaginaton and she hasn't done any research into the matter at all! Not worth clogging up my screen with tbh
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If you hadn't guessed, I don't think riding is cruel, nor do I think feeding hay is cruel, etc! Sure there are cruel people about, but that is not a debate on whether riding is cruel, surely it's about how we eradicate the evil in the human race...
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I've been told by people i work with in the past that I'm cruel to ride horses, that horses don't enjoy it and that I should just turn my horses out in a field and let them run wild. Yeah, right! My 22 year old anglo-arab starts whinnying whenever he sees a saddle come his way, if i walk past his door to one of the others he stands there and sulks. He loves his stable and would hate to live out, he loves being ridden and gets to excited because he enjoys it so much. when I tried to retire him he just looked miserable so he was brought back into work.

Some of these tree huggers really don't have the common sense they were born with! With things like NH racing, if the horses didn't enjoy it they wouldn't race and wouldn't jump the fences. Ho often doyou see a race horse put a stop in? Not often, and most of the time in races like the national it only happens because there are too many horses going in to the fence together. If you see the same horses go round the same course in another race with a smaller field, you almost never see one stop.

Sorry, will get off my soapbox now!
 
I don't think that riding a horse is cruel in itself but as with all things it is open to abuse. I think that if you work with the horse, don't abuse his good nature then most horses of a generous nature throughly enjoy the work. the lazier type most probably would much rather stay in the field munching grass and who can blame them?

Mine had a year off due to injury and was throughly depressed about it. Walked the fence lines and screamed at anyone off out on a ride. When he came sound I walked towards him with the tack and bless him, he grew at least a foot, stood stock still while the saddle went on and more or less ate the bit in his haste to get it in his mouth.

In the photo taken of us at that time it was hard to tell who was smiling more, me or Dougal!

Guess one sure way to find out is to walk upto your horse in the field brandishing tack and see how he reacts.

Personally I don't like going to work but if I didn't I wouldn't live and if horses didn't work, well there wouldn't be so many of them around. Same as if no one ate meat there would be far less cows, sheep and pigs and therefore less fields to keep them in which would be a terrible shame.

Some people just take the whole argument way too far.
 
Ah, the poor dear hippies!

I can not work out if they are saying that riding is cruel per sey, or if some riding is cruel.

I think they are saying that modifying an animals behaviour for human advantage or pleasure is cruel. Ultimately, being ridden, stabled and groomed and handled by humans IS a compensation for the fact that the horse isn't living wild in a heard. Domestication is 2nd best. How they can say this about an animal that has been domesticated for thousands of years is beyond me. If most modern horses were turned out in the wild they would not survive for long because their natural hardiness has been bred out of them.

We can all find examples of how horses are abused or hurt (sometimes unintentionaly) in the name of human pleasure, but I think the basis of the hippies argument lies in the very basic notion of a human/animal relationship. If that is wrong/cruel/un-natural, then so is everything that follows from it!

I was wondering about this when I saw a protest outside an animal circus. I went to see the show. There were horses and dogs performing and I saw a display that Barbra Woodhouse and Monty Roberts would have been proud of! Nothing cruel, just very good animal training dressed up as 'tricks'. The protest was because the animals were doing these things 'for human pleasure' I couldn't see the difference between the counting pony's act(he tapped his hoof to count and got treats and followed a clown about aka join-up!) and a round pen session.
 
My dad thinks I'm cruel to ride horses and that they wouldn't jump if we didn't make them. (That's why people wear spurs when they are showjumping, to stab the horse into going over the fence)
He should come to one of my lessons and see how Star's whole attitude changes when the poles come out!
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of course it's cruel - it must be as there are very few animals in the world that tolerate a rider on their back (elephants, camels, ostriches and none of them look very happy)

why after all would a horse want to be ridden - dragged out of its' slumbers and have a heavy saddle plonked on it's back, followed soon after by a 'tending to obesity' rider thudding along clump clump clump on it's delicate back - all the while interrupting it's dozing/eating/resting/playing time

that's excluding the yank yank yank on it's mouth and the kick kick kick with every stride (see plenty of those sort of riders taht cannot keep their legs still).

for every 1 well ridden horse there will be 1 badly ridden/abused/mistreated somewhere in the world

so on that basis is riding cruel ? who knows

the horses cannot say and adrenalin can keep both animals and people going despite being injured so appearances of enjoyment can be deceptive

nope - not a luvvy veggie huggy person - just posing a different point of view from the horse...
 
I don't think she should be labelled a "tree hugger" - this really pees me off when people use this term when anyone questions anything about animals!

I think its an interesting discussion. I personally don't think its cruel as such, because I believe a horse will soon let you know if it doesn't like something. I think its bad to force a horse to do something which it doesn't have the heart to do though, like some horses don't seem to enjoy jumping for example, I think the disipline should be found which the horse suits and enjoys.

Then again, some horses are ridden in IMO a cruel fashion. Those who beat the crap out of their horses etc. that's cruel, of course it is.
 
"How they can say this about an animal that has been domesticated for thousands of years is beyond me. If most modern horses were turned out in the wild they would not survive for long because their natural hardiness has been bred out of them."

our old Highland pony would refuse to be turned out if it was raining!
 
IMO its not cruel exactly but it is more of a job to a horse than its own idea of fun. For example if you put a horse loose in a grass field with some dressage markers and some show jumps do you see it taking itself round the course or having a go at shoulder in just for enjoyment? No, they like to eat and have the odd charge about. Its in a horse's nature to follow instructions from a leader, the role a rider adopts, so the idea that "they wouldn't do it if they didn't enjoy it" is not strictly true. They don't do the things we riders do with them when left to their own devices, they do it because its in their nature to follow their leader's instructions. All this said if we didn't do all the silly things we do with them for our own sport and pleasure what would happen to them then? They're too big and expensive to be pets. Most modern breeds wouldn't last five minutes if they were set free. Otherwise their only purpose would be getting eaten by us. Its a human world and animals have to find the best place in it they can. Horses are ok with being ridden and in return we give then as safe, long and happy lives as we can. If they weren't ridden who would pay all their vet bills?!
 
i agree with SJFAN.. and also with KVS. its in a horses nature to follow their 'leaders' instructions. if they didn't follow the leader in the wild, then they would soon be away from the heard and meet a sticky end.. we, as owners, are their leaders and in return for their obliging good nature, we look after them and keep them safe just as their leader in the wild would.
if any horse really didn't want to do something it wouldn't.. there are plenty of horses who say 'no' to something, whether it be to jumping, walking through a puddle or something more serious..
i think the general answer to 'is riding cruel?' is NO but as other people have pointed out there is a lot more to it than that..
anyone ignorant enough to think it is needs to check the captain of their brain ship, becuase they are quite clearly drunk at the wheel.!
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