Is there something wrong with my horse???

[Pigeon]

Just a moany post....

It feels like we have hit a brick wall with Pip's training these last few months. We had a couple of weeks earlier in the year where he went BEAUTIFULLY, thought we had turned the corner, but it seems we are back to square one again. :confused3:

Bit of background - he's a 10yo ex racehorse who I have owned nearly three years. I have spent that time attempting to turn him into a dressage pony. He was bought because he was nervy about jumping and had scared his previous owner - He had never done any flat schooling before and was a total giraffe.

He has always been a little on-off, but the first year and a half was a definite upwards incline, and he had moments of brilliance (a couple of weeks at a time where it feels like riding a push button dressage schoolmaster, very supple and springy and elevated, like the best horse I have ever sat on - he scored 76% at his first novice, and we rode through an elem test with my instructor and she said she would not want to compete against him!) which make me want to persevere, but honestly I'm losing my mind here lol!!

Had saddle fitter and physio out last week, all fine there, he is 100% sound, and dentist is coming next week. I assumed it was my riding, and really upped my fitness and lessons, which helped a bit, but I don't have any problems with my other horses, or with friend's horses, and everyone who rides him says he is bloody tricky (he goes best for me even though the people I've had ride him are much more capable riders) so I don't think it's just me.

The issue is roundness, and until we have that down we can't really progress past prelim!! It just feels a bit... depressing, really, that I have put all my spare time and money over three years into a horse that is incapable of a prelim level test!! I want to be competitive at elementary, which tbh doesn't feel like that big of an ask. He's 100% there in walk, but in trot the absolute best we get is like in my sig, which I would be satisfied with but all the comments are not round enough in trot, above the contact etc... If I push it, he has a hissy fit, which is not ideal in front of a judge. :rolleyes3: I love him to bits so all this gets forgiven, but argghhh!!! Where do I go from here!! Tempted to get him professionally schooled for a few weeks, but it does seem like admitting failure. I think that there is some sort of fundamental issue with accepting the contact, but not really sure how to correct this??? Any advice massively appreciated.

ETA: I'll try and get a video.

 

[TheMule]

How does he go on the lunge in a gadget? Does he work round?
He looks i your sig pics like he naturally holds his head quite far in front of the veicl at the end of his neck? How much space does he have behind his cheek bone? Sme horses find it physically impossible to hold their heads up and on the vertical as they dont have enough room there.
If all this is ok, I'd probably want his neck and back xrayed as my next thought would be pain

 

[Pigeon]

He's fine on the lunge in a pessoa, seems quite relaxed and can work collected without a fuss - actually if I ride him straight after being lunged he is good for about five minutes, so I think it's an evasion/getting away with it thing, but equally it could be evasion because he's in pain!! :confused3: He is fine in walk and will over-bend if I don't have enough leg, so god knows why trot is such an issue. He's a complete brat with other riders, which doesn't help as I would like someone to get on to find out if this is my hang-up or his! Might have to take him to a pro.

Physio says he is fine, but yes, I think I will get the vet if things don't improve in the next couple of weeks.

I tried to do a bute test and he wouldn't eat it no-matter what I did! Will try again with devil's claw or something sugar coated.

He will come round to an extent when loose schooled, especially if there are mares around, although giraffe is his go-to pose when he's excited. Thing is, when he was going well, I could ride very very lightly, so I really don't want to have to get a bit tougher with him, though maybe that is what he needs. But not something I want to do if there's a physiological issue. Hoping in a way that the dentist picks up on something fixable, I can't afford another field ornament. I have also wondered if he has an eyesight issue. Ahhh horses!!!

He has enough space behind his cheekbone, but the tension seems to be in the lower neck muscle, above the jugular groove.

 

[shampain]

For what it's worth, I love seeing pictures of your boy, as I think you two look so great together and make a brilliant pair. Buuuut we all know how grim it can feel sometimes.
If there are no underlying physical issues and the fit of the saddle is good, I'd be inclined to say to play safe at shows, but to try and push him through it when working at home. You describe 'hissy fits' as though he's throwing his toys out of the pram at having to work hard; if this is the case, then he just needs to be told that he has a job to do. And I'm not one to fuss overly with the reins so I swear I'm not advocating anything handsy (like your boy, my little OTTB would just tighten up all through her back if her mouth was fussed with; everything had to come from behind, no flexing of the neck etcetera), but however you work him, insist that he works hard for you.
From my past comments, you may know that I'm a tad obsessed with using poles. But have you tried using a line of raised poles in trot? This really helped Rose to lift through her shoulder/wither and to relax her neck and back.

 

[Kokopelli]

I felt like you a few weeks ago, like we were in a rut and no matter how hard we tried we never did any better. Soo frustrating. Anyway, Louie had all the checks like you have and nothing serious came up so I decided to give him a break from dressage and focus on things that we find a bit more enjoyable (I enjoy dressage when it goes right.) Last weekend I had two final dressage comps with this mind frame going in that I don't care anymore and surprise surprise we did the 4 best test to date. We're now focusing on his jumping and already I'm seeing a massive improvement in his schooling, we no longer have a fight he just comes round because I've relaxed.

I'm now really enjoying him and even though atm we're only jumping the dizzying heights of 2ft3 its made a huge difference and I couldn't be happier.

 

[tallyho!]

Before reading kokopelli's reply I was about to say the same thing... go and do something completely different and give him a break.

I was always told never do fast work with a horse you're keeping for dressage but a good blast on the beach once a week always did us both good. Or even doing a spot of xc here and there to keep the interest level up. If anything it will blow some cobwebs away and loosen some stiff muscles.

If you dont want to or can't do that then my next suggestion would be to up the lateral work to get those back muscles bending and stretching, really pushing for nice shoulder ins and leg yields and work off a circle. Get some canters in and vary the tempo within each gait.

 

[Lolo]

Someone I know once said improvement can be ugly, and I think this could be it... Reg is now established on the flat. His past holds back his progress- 6 years of racing mean he does have some physical limitations. But they do novice level tests and are disappointed with under 65% really.

But getting to this point has had a long period of Al pushing for more and him throwing his toys and saying it's hard and he doesn't want to. She had to keep asking without getting cross or changing the question until he stopped saying no and said yes. Once he said yes they made a fuss of him and left it. And as time went on he started saying yes more easily, and now even when he's in a stroppy mood he still says yes over no. It's taken ages, and a lot of patience, but it has worked. I haven't ever put out the footage/ photos of these bits though as he is all over the place, like a llama on speed. Al's not doing anything wrong, no raised voices or flapping or hitting... He's just behaving like he's having the proverbial beaten out of him!

 

[cornbrodolly]

Is he getting sour? The pessoa[ a gadget I really dislike - so boring for the horse, he may tolerate it , but that doesnt make a willing horse]is not going to answer this problem. I second the posters above who say go for a blast - make his life FUN and INTERESTING.

 

[Kokopelli]

Before reading kokopelli's reply I was about to say the same thing... go and do something completely different and give him a break.

I was always told never do fast work with a horse you're keeping for dressage but a good blast on the beach once a week always did us both good. Or even doing a spot of xc here and there to keep the interest level up. If anything it will blow some cobwebs away and loosen some stiff muscles.

If you dont want to or can't do that then my next suggestion would be to up the lateral work to get those back muscles bending and stretching, really pushing for nice shoulder ins and leg yields and work off a circle. Get some canters in and vary the tempo within each gait.

That's interesting Tallyho, why aren't you meant to do fast work with dressage horses? I love going for a good blast

 

[Abbeygale]

I am actually no help at all - but just wanted today that I shouldn't worry about the 3 years part. I have had my mare 8 years now, and we have only just moved up to novice lol . There is hope for you yet

I have to say that the biggest change we have made in the last 12 months has been doing some endurance training rides (so helped my mare get her head in the right place and also get properly fit and slim) and also changing to a new trainer. I was entirely happy with my previous trainer, but she had suggested making the move as she was reducing the teaching she was doing. Me and my mare have come on so much so quickly - new trainer was absolutely over the moon with our counter canter today (about 4 months ago our canter was a proper proper wall of death job!!!)

I have previously tried sending my mare away for schooling - but although it was good for her, I didn't really benefit as it wasn't a result of my hard work - if you know what I mean.

Go out and play at something else. Forget about dressaging, %'s, prelim / novice blah blah blah xx

 

[Pigeon]

Is he getting sour? The pessoa[ a gadget I really dislike - so boring for the horse, he may tolerate it , but that doesnt make a willing horse]is not going to answer this problem. I second the posters above who say go for a blast - make his life FUN and INTERESTING.

He's hacked every day, and schooling is only ever 10 mins before or after a hack. I do agree that they can do too much schooling, but he does get his fair share of bombing round fields haha!! He was competing quite a lot earlier in the year, I thought maybe it had been too much for his little brain, so he had three weeks off while I was on holiday. No difference to his way of going really, he's quite a cheerful chappy in the arena, he loves canter work. I have been looking for an excuse to take him to the gallops, so that might be our next venture.

I haven't used the pessoa for over a month (seems a waste to lunge when the weather's nice!!) I do agree it is boring, but he was going best when he was doing a few minutes in it (literally like two on each rein) four times a week. I know it's not ideal, but his back strengthened a lot, and everyone commented on what a good shape he was. I used to have a horse with KS, and the vet said the pessoa is very beneficial. So I am going to keep using it!!

 

[DabDab]

So is it just trot that he has the tension issue with? Is he better in trot after some canter work or worse?

 

[Pigeon]

Oh, and to confound things further - He went beautifully today :confused3: Only did about seven minutes, because he was so good I thought I'd leave it while it was going well! And then just went for a pootle round the lanes.

The only differences were - He did carrot stretches before riding, but they can't be that potent, surely? :confused3: He wore his ear bonnet, which he does prefer going in for whatever reason, and we had the arena to ourselves. He is a bit nervy about horses coming up behind him, but again, quite an over-reaction if that's the explanation. I didn't need to put that much pressure on, he went very willingly and felt like he was supple and attentive.

Toys thrown out of pram is a good way to describe his reaction to pressure. He just jumps around a bit, same response as I used to get when I tried to walk him over drain covers!! He uses this as an intimidation tactic with new riders, because as soon as he starts bouncing they stop asking him to do whatever he was doing. I wonder if that's what he did to scare his old owner?

He really likes lateral movements, like leg yield, shoulder in, half pass etc, I think because they give him something to think about. Canter leg yield is his fave, might do some of that. I will definitely make an effort to take him to the gallops, he does a fair bit of galloping in the fields at home (maybe that's where we're going wrong lol!!)

I might take him xc schooling to do some minimus and have a splash in the water, he's a complete freak about ditches and anything with coloured poles though so our jumping adventures have been limited.

Thanks for the advice, guys Some really good suggestions.

 

[Pigeon]

So is it just trot that he has the tension issue with? Is he better in trot after some canter work or worse?

Yes, perhaps a little in canter if he's feeling strong, but trot is really the issue. Maybe my leg comes off? I'll definitely try and get a video because I find it hard to feel what I'm doing when I'm riding. Arena mirrors would be great lol.

Depends on his mood! The trot transition is worse when he is excited or not really listening, because he literally leaps/launches into it and takes the reins out my hands, and once he's lost the roundness it's very hard to get back. He's quite forward, I just have to think trot and he goes into it.

Today when I schooled I set him up for ages for a transition and only asked when I felt he was really relaxed and listening and he was great, but obviously the issue is in a dressage test, when you have to trot you have to trot!!

But yes, very good pony today, but he could be back to naughtiness tomorrow, so not going to take anything for granted

 

[tallyho!]

That's interesting Tallyho, why aren't you meant to do fast work with dressage horses? I love going for a good blast

I forgot to ask tbh koko... I carried on regardless. Maybe because it may cause an injury? Perhaps it may make them sore... Well it would if you did it once in a blue moon but not if done as part of the whole training package.

Pigeon, don't rush. You will get there, just listen to him and take it at a pace you are both comfortable with. The rosettes will still be there for you whether it's tomorrow or in two years time. Remember to have fun and appreciate the journey x

 

[Pigeon]

Someone I know once said improvement can be ugly, and I think this could be it... Reg is now established on the flat. His past holds back his progress- 6 years of racing mean he does have some physical limitations. But they do novice level tests and are disappointed with under 65% really.

But getting to this point has had a long period of Al pushing for more and him throwing his toys and saying it's hard and he doesn't want to. She had to keep asking without getting cross or changing the question until he stopped saying no and said yes. Once he said yes they made a fuss of him and left it. And as time went on he started saying yes more easily, and now even when he's in a stroppy mood he still says yes over no. It's taken ages, and a lot of patience, but it has worked. I haven't ever put out the footage/ photos of these bits though as he is all over the place, like a llama on speed. Al's not doing anything wrong, no raised voices or flapping or hitting... He's just behaving like he's having the proverbial beaten out of him!

I think this might be part of the problem - I do back off a bit when he does exactly what you've described, because it is so ugly and I keep thinking 'surely a so-so trot is better than a tantrum' when really we need to go through the tantrum to get the great trot!

I think because I've invested so much time etc in him, and he is my baby and (on some days) my dream horse, I pander to his whims a bit. I'm definitely stricter with the others, (not in a horrible way, just less 'oh diddums have a polo') and they respond better to that.

I think once dentist has been, some lessons are in order...

 

[DabDab]

I think this might be part of the problem - I do back off a bit when he does exactly what you've described, because it is so ugly and I keep thinking 'surely a so-so trot is better than a tantrum' when really we need to go through the tantrum to get the great trot!

I think because I've invested so much time etc in him, and he is my baby and (on some days) my dream horse, I pander to his whims a bit. I'm definitely stricter with the others, (not in a horrible way, just less 'oh diddums have a polo') and they respond better to that.

I think once dentist has been, some lessons are in order...

Well yes, you do have to remember that ex racers have been used to being worked hard and having everything thrown at them and just being expected to deal with it. They are bred to be workaholics. So when he goes tight you could just throw every exercise you've got at him in a 'do this, now do this, now do this', punchy kind of way.

 

[Pigeon]

That sounds really good Will give it a go next time a tantrum arrises!!