Is this a common phenomena

Empy&Treacle

Empy&Treacle

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I am posting this out of pure interest and curriosity to see if it is a common occurrence or very rare....

On the 30th April 2009 my mare gave birth to a colt. For the first few months you could easily call him an ugly duckling, but come 5 months he was a stunning young man. He was weaned at 6 months and unfortunately I then had to sell him. He went to a very experienced and lovely home.

A few weeks before he turned two he was castrated; there were complications and they could not get his blood to clot :( After expert veterinary care and blood transfusions through the night he sadly slipped away :(

Is this very rare or quite a common, yet devastating occurrence?


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Goodness, how tragic, I'm so sorry. I haven't heard of anything similar. I would post this in breeding as there are alot more people in there who would have had youngesters castrated and so will know more.
 
Unusual but not unknown. I have seen two cases like this, one a stallion that was castrated at 7 or 8 and who survived, but barely; and the other was a youngster like yours that the vet just couldn't stop the bleeding.

Sad to have lost such a lovely looking young man xx
 
Lack of a blood clotting can be a genetic trait, a flaw which the owner of your foals sire should be informed of just in case he is passing it on to his offspring & needs to be withdrawn from stud, though the mare might be to blame. Inbred royal families suffered with it quite badly not that I am saying your boy was inbred just unlucky in the genetic lottery of life. A sad loss for you, very sorry.
 
POLLDARK said:
Lack of a blood clotting can be a genetic trait, a flaw which the owner of your foals sire should be informed of just in case he is passing it on to his offspring & needs to be withdrawn from stud, though the mare might be to blame. Inbred royal families suffered with it quite badly not that I am saying your boy was inbred just unlucky in the genetic lottery of life. A sad loss for you, very sorry.
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Thanks all.

He died back in April (only just got back in to HHO) and it had crossed my mind that it might be genetic, but I couldn't see how when the sire has such good blood lines and has been in the "business" for years and the mare: well she might have been a bit of a heinz breeding wise (MorganxTBxIrish Cob), but she injured herself quite a few times and was also operated on and there were no problems with her blood not clotting etc. :p Don't worry about the inbred comment - I can confirm it isn't relevant in this case, but its worth mentioning. Perhaps its just some recessive gene or something on her side that skipped a generation, or maybe he just had the same bad luck and ill fate as his mother and my other mare who all either died or were PTS within 8 months of each other :(

I might get in touch with the stud and just inform them that it happened - allbeit a bit late.
 
I cannot really add anything to the knowledgable replies you have already have, I just wanted to say how sorry I am. Such a lovely looking animal as well.
 
*Prefix: like many posts on here this contains random thoughts, not strictly researched facts...*

I'm sorry to hear about your loss.

On the genetic side there are *some* genetic disorders that are more common in males of many species because if you imagine the Y they get from their dad has three "parts" (the two upward pointing sections and the tail) whereas the X they get from their mum has four you can see they get some info only from their mum.

A female gets an X from both parents so both have to be carriers of the bad gene for it to show up in the female offspring as the 'good' one is usually dominant.

The male gets the relevant information only from his mum so even if she doesn't show symptoms if she is a carrier and he gets an unlucky X from here he will.

Which is all a long way of saying it is possible the lack of clotting in the colt is from his mum (passed down from either of her parents) so it may be best not to breed from her again although it does sound as though you may have lost her too :-(

Sympathies for a horrid year.
 
Tickles said:
*Prefix: like many posts on here this contains random thoughts, not strictly researched facts...*
Click to expand...

Haemophilia in humans is x-linked recessive (the causative gene is carried on the x chromosome which is obviously passed down maternally) and controls blood clotting. I'm not sure if there is an equivalent in horses but would make sense if so.

ETA just checked and yes, horses can have haemophilia too. May be an explanation although I am sure there could be other reasons as well.
 
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in humans haemophilia (bleeding disorder) is x linked. this means mum passes it to son even though mum did not suffer it herself for the reason "tickles" describes. mum is what is known as a carrier, but usually has no symptoms. if mum has a daughter (providing dad is not a sufferer) then daughter may be a carrier or may be "normal" (50/50 chance). men can not be carriers, only sufferers. therefore your mare could be a carrier & passed it to the colt even though she has no symptoms herself, especially if you are unsure of her family history & therefore would not know if other young males had the problem. Also one third of humans with haemophilia have no family history, with the problem arising from a spontaneous mutation, or it has remained hidden with sons inheriting the "normal" gene.

However in humans haemophilia is a major problem. bleeding doesnt just follow operations, but cuts following injury too. if its the same for horses then i dont imagine the colt got to 2 without ever cutting himself, so seems unlikely would not have been a problem before. but there is plenty of other bleeding problems that may have been the cause.

medical student to return to finals revision now...
 
Thanks all for your interesting points of view. Parentage for the mare could definitely be classed as unknown, apart from the fact that they were called Eric and May ;) - the sire was a gypsy cob and the dam, a pure Morgan horse.

With the talk on X and Y chromosomes I do now remember looking in to it when he died. The mare was definitely not expected to breed a coloured as she herself had very little colour and the sire was a solid dark bay. Since she did though it is likely to presume she was Homozygous; to which haemophilia is also associated. In his case he must have received an all recessive gene make-up for he was chestnut too(chestnut being a recessive gene) - not something you would expect from bay parents. I am happy to accept that this was most likely the cause of his undoing - we were so pleased when he popped out coloured and it never even crossed my mind how detramental this would be to him. I guess if he hadn't had died during castration he may well have done so if he cut himself particularly badly sometime in later life.

Circumstances such as this sure open your eyes to the fact that breeding is a massive and complicated game. I personally never even thought of the geneology and its potential threats before breeding from her; if she was still around today then I would not consider putting her in foal again.

Thanks again for everyone's input - really appreciate it!
 
Just come across this post after searching as I have had my 2.5yr stallion castrateed today and to having problems with getting the bleeding to stop :( Im quite concerned reading this post now....

It started at 2.30pm this afternoon when he started the op and Ive just got back from checking and its still slowly dripping evening with wadding in the wound!! The vet said hes never really seen anything quite so bad...there was alot of blood! He's perked up now and eating some hay but the area is swelling quite badly and as mentioned still dripping blood.

Someone is doing a late night check and will let me know.

Can you let me know how it happened with your boy please - did he just suddenly go down hill?

Thanks
Becky
 
The Op may not not see this but it is unusual for them to bleed out following castration, dripping for several days is common and you should not worry if yours continues to drip blood.
The vet would not have left if he was still bleeding excessively and some swelling is bound to occur, getting him turned out in the morning will help reduce swelling, provided the bleeding is still only dripping.
Try not to worry too much, he is sure to be fine.
 
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