Is this a normal downward laminitic pattern - help don't know what to do!

C

canteron

Well-Known Member
Joined
15 October 2008
Messages
4,180
Location
Cloud Cockoo Land
Visit site
My 19yr old retired 15hh cob had another laminitic burst about 11 weeks ago. I did 2 months on quite a strick diets, etc and he turned out clinicially very well and slimmer but still with a high IR count.

Well, for a couple of weeks he was very happy, had a little bit more (but still restricted) grass but still soaked hay, etc, etc, and lost a little bit more weight.

However, he then went very very lame. Farrier found very deep abcess which he lanced and then had to lance again a couple of days later. That was a week ago. He is still slightly lame, but even worse has now gone laminitic on all 4 legs despite very careful food management.

So my question is, do laminitus bouts get progressively easier to contract and worse, does it lower the immune systems for other things.

For the first time ever I am seriously considering his future if I can't get him to a reasonably balanced state. Poor thing, its horrible watching. Do you think that if we can sort out the abcess so he can move more then will help the laminitus.

Do I call the farrier or the vet and if I get a vet do I need to insist on one with many years experience and this seems to me one where experience is everything?

All experiences appreciated, I am at a real loss as to how to proceed.
 
laminitis doesn't have to be recurrent and get progressively worse

but with IR you may find your cob can't cope with the grass no matter how little. It varies so just because one IR can (or can't) doesn't mean they all will or won't.

And for laminitis call the vet - you may need extra help getting the IR properly under control. Get one that is experienced in successful management of IR and Cushings and join the ECIR Yahoo group. The www.ecirhorse.com website is a useful place too.
 
LucyPriory said:
laminitis doesn't have to be recurrent and get progressively worse

but with IR you may find your cob can't cope with the grass no matter how little. It varies so just because one IR can (or can't) doesn't mean they all will or won't.

And for laminitis call the vet - you may need extra help getting the IR properly under control. Get one that is experienced in successful management of IR and Cushings and join the ECIR Yahoo group. The www.ecirhorse.com website is a useful place too.
Click to expand...

^^agreed^^
 
All sounds like good advice to me.

I am finding this site quite useful: http://www.prascend.co.uk/ . Ok, it's promoting a product, but there's some good info there on laminitis and cushing's. Wonder if your boy is showing any signs of Cushing's as that might account for his recurrent bouts of laminitis?

Went to a talk by Cathy McGowan (vet) last year, and she was saying we really have to ask ourselves why our horse has got laminitis each time - 3 categories: hormones, inflammatory (eg grain overload, retained placenta) or weight-bearing.

If he does have Cushing's, then one symptom is the immune system becoming less effective, but there seem to have been good results with Cushing's horses going onto pergolide although I have no direct experience of that.

Otherwise, is he able to do any form of exercise, even 10 minutes walking out a day inhand, as some form of even gentle but active exercise can help bring the insulin resistance down over time?

Oh, I find Dodson & Horrell's advice on laminitis really helpful too. Just in case you've not come across their info before, here's a link:

http://www.dodsonandhorrell.com/fileadmin/uploads/pics/Laminitis_Leaflet_2010.pdf

Did your vet test for Cushing's? Maybe it's worth re-evaluating whether your boy is showing any more of the early signs and having a blood test for it?

Hope you find you are able to stabilise him.

Sarah
 
I dont think you necessarily need an "experienced" vet. Any vet that is a year or more in equine practice will have dealt with sufficient numbers and types of laminitics to have a few plans of action up their sleeve.
I would recommend getting vet out first, then perhaps foot xrays to coincide with vet and farrier consulting together to sort out the abscess and support the foot. It may be that impession material/shoeing/imprints may be the way to go or they may decide the horse will be better unshod - every horse is different.

What medication is your horse on for IR? Has he had repeat blood tests?
 
Is it when you start to give him some grasses that he became worse (week after/ 2weeks after??)

Riche grasses is so bad for Laminitis Horses... Nos vegetable like apples ot pears... But I think you already know that.

After, there are bad hay, you have to take carfully the right hay... Good luck wih you dear horse:o
 
Thanks for your thoughts everyone. The Dodson & Horrell leaflet is particularly useful.
The farrier came yesterday and gave some good advice and the vet is coming out on Wednesday to check for Cushings.

The general thinking is that I am going to have to get a lot more weight off him if we are going to have any chance at all of getting to a reasonable balance.

My worries are that if the disease is now at such a stage that he can't take frosty grass, then I may not be able to find a lifestyle that is appropriate for him - and me - during the winter.

He was retired 6 years ago with DDFT problem and spent 6 months on box rest - I promised him he would never have to go through that again, so fingers cross for my poor (now starving in his view) horse.

Oh, and I have sent the winter hay off for nutritional and mineral analysis to see if that can help.

So, fingers crossed.
 
glenruby said:
I dont think you necessarily need an "experienced" vet. Any vet that is a year or more in equine practice will have dealt with sufficient numbers and types of laminitics to have a few plans of action up their sleeve.
Click to expand...

Oh how I wish this were true. Sadly it is not. I have come across several who have no idea of how to feed a laminitic and others who have no idea of how to recognise a potential early cushings or IR horse.

Length of practice is no guide either, it really seems to be luck of the draw.
 
Last edited:
Agree with Lucypriory, I have witnessed some diabolical vets advice re Laminitis. Please make sure you educate yourself and don't just blindly listen to 'experts' (As I'm sure you are doing anyway)
 
There are still Vets recommending small amounts of un soaked (un tested) hay. :(
I'd go with the ECIR Yahoo group if I was you...
 
LucyPriory said:
Oh how I wish this were true. Sadly it is not. I have come across several who have no idea of how to feed a laminitic and others who have no idea of how to recognise a potential early cushings or IR horse.

Length of practice is no guide either, it really seems to be luck of the draw.
Click to expand...

I agree totally with what Lucy says here. I honestly believe that as horse owners we have a duty to be aware of the massive strides forward in equine management, and this is so much easier now with the information available on the internet.

Similarly, I believe that vets, have a duty to be aware of the progress made in all aspects of horse care, and the management and treatment of illness and disease which, not so long ago meant PTS, for many horses, and in some cases, through ignorance or worse, apathy, still does.
 
Pale Rider said:
Similarly, I believe that vets, have a duty to be aware of the progress made in all aspects of horse care, and the management and treatment of illness and disease which, not so long ago meant PTS, for many horses, and in some cases, through ignorance or worse, apathy, still does.
Click to expand...
I have to say I agree with this sadly. I may not have a degree and be a bit 'slow' but I know more about basic management of horses with uncomplicated laminitis than some Vets I've dealt with and my knowledge and experience is very limited.
Of course there are also many fantastic up to date and realistic Vets out there it just seems from reading forums there are still too many clinging to old thinking imo.
 
Get in touch with the Lamintis Clinic, they have a help line and also loads of useful information on what to do and what not to do. www.laminitisclinic.org

If you horse has cushings then pergolide (or prascend as it's now know) is what our pony is on. Together with a careful diet it has kept our pony clear of lami for 3 years. However we do have her bloods tested every October to make sure the dosage is correct.
 
OK now II can give you what I am going through.

My mare Never had laminitis in 23 years of her life till now. She must have had a small bout last year which went un noticed.

This year she was brilliant in april but went very lethargic in May. Went lame in July , vets said ice pack - tendon. Then poultice, finally x ray showed lami in off fore. She is hobbling lame .. She had heart bar shoes on, but last week Billy took them off and vet put on Stryro foam pads.

Her souls have dropped and pedal bone rotated a bit.

She is on box rest since weekend 11th july.

She is IR neg. She is on Bedmax bedding rec by laminitic society speedy beet happy hoof 2x bute a day and soaked hay . Also just bought some laminator to help bloody flow in hoof and bought formula4feet.http://www.gjwtitmuss.co.uk/equilif...y/pid3943/cid616/formula-4-feet-20kg-sack.asp
Phone laminitic society for advice also Equimins they are very helpfull.
http://www.equimins.com/laminator-for-horses.htm

Buy a muzzle or coral a small paddock for him, turn him out at night about 9-10 pm summer so sugars lowest.
Also winter don't turn her out when its frosty as sugars are drawn to the top.

From talking to my vets- farriers and dentist. Every yard they go to they are finding laminitis. This year particularly
 
Last edited:
Two lots of bute seems quite a lot to still be on after 6 weeks, why has your vet prescribed this, any particular reason, or is it part of his usual treatment for laminitis.
 
She is on 1 morning one evening because she is still in pain . She went backwards after escaping gorging on barley rings and grazing . She is on on bute a day for her normal eye problem . This is what they tell me she needs to help with inflammation. No different than taking two Ibuprofen for migraines . When she shows signs of less pain we will reduce her back to one . Dentist told me of one horse 17.3 that was on 6 bute a day with serious lami in all 4 feet could hardly get up. Now horse is recovering and now able to hack out.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top