Is this a red herring or a symptom?

brighteyes

brighteyes

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Friend's horse is usually a reliable jumper but has begun to uncharacteristically stop. He is a forward thinking, well-schooled, 'strong' type but lately begun to be ignorant to his rider's wishes and generally 'tanking' about with not much rideability.

The red herring...(?)

He is reluctant to urinate away from home and has often (recentlyish) needed to be returned to his stable whilst being shod behind in order to empty his bladder as he can't (or won't) stand with his hind leg raised for long. He wees and is then able to be shod. Friend thinks she has noticed him moving stiffly (from behind and side) and there's this stopping.

Vet says highly unlikely to be kidneys but friend knows horse well and that he's not quite right. No noises or discomfort apparent while he's urinating, urine normal in colour but horse doesn't 'hang out' while he urinates (normally, so not unusual).

Could this be hind leg lameness, a back issue (back person didn't find any particular soreness) or kidney/bladder related?

Anyone got any ideas?
 
Definitely something causing unhappiness but the $64,000 question is what. Will ned loose jump, ie no rider? If he's pretty much always been picky about where he pees, then that may be the red herring part. But the unhappiness jumping needs investigating. Saddle? Bit? Teeth? KS? Sherlock Holmes hat on but it probably won't be easy although friend's ned is clearly trying to tell her something.
 
I would investigate the possiblility of ulcers...performance problems can be a sign as can change in weeing habits.
 
Nope. I have also learned that he doesn't (and never has) adopt the usual gelding stance when he wees. His tail goes up and that's all. He's about eleven and has a good lifestyle with daily turnout all year give or take the odd day.

Might he have a bean? I know nothing about them, but is it a possibility
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Generally he's a well horse and looks in great condition. Had the winter off and is being gradually brought back into work (pretty much there).
 
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Might he have a bean? I know nothing about them, but is it a possibility


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Have no clue about the other issues
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...

But when Motor had a 'bean' it did not affect him in any way, all 'peeing' apparatus was ok, just this little thing hanging out the end of his penis .... and on investigation, I could see this big round bean, blocking part of his urethra
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.... the Vet came to sedate him, for some power treatment on his teeth and voila she removed it at the same time
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... he was a little sore for a day or so and then all ok after that
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..... took him 16 years to get one though
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Good evening. Thanks for that little bit of info. She's really baffled by this. Felt he's not been his normal self but unable to pinpoint anything specific. The stopping incident then looking slightly stiff then the weeing thing are all part of a bigger picture, she is fairly sure. He isn't off his feed or anything else unusual, though he was a bit down after aggressive sarcoid treatment some weeks ago. But he's over that now
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He normally gives it his best shot and certainly isn't a reluctant participant in anything
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You almost wish for a lump or a limp - anything to wave a flag at the problem!
 
Out of interest, what breeding is he?

My horse's EPSM began to show itself with a similar if not identicle set of symptoms. Barnaby had trouble peeing out on rides, something he had always done quite happily, he would stand, parked out but do nothing as id he couldn't give that final commitment to shifting his weight. He began being reluctant to go forward, bucking if asked to canter in the school, but not out on hacks.

Couldn't quite workout if your friend's horse was being reluctant to jump or if he was rushing, evading?

Certainly the symptoms could all be tied in to a problem that is resulting in back discomfort but as you say, identifying the cause could be a real nightmare. I guess start with the obvious and easiest to check, saddle fit and state of back then take it from there.

Hope your friend gets to the bottom of it.

Sqip
 
He is (if memory serves) polo pony cross, but is a middleweight full up 15 hands, possibly a tad longer than a normal gelding but a nice, quality little horse with no confo faults which would scream an obvious area to check.

I have to say I'd suspect spavin for insidious hind limb stiffness plus back problems for the stopping and general lack of compliance under saddle - but the weeing? Or is that idiosyncratic and nothing to do with anything except a relief behaviour?

His teeth, back and feet are all cared for by people I trust and use. His saddle might be an area to review, though no signs of soreness when physio attended last week. She'd have picked anything up if it were there.
 
Can't really think of what to suggest. I guess your friend will just have to keep an eye on things and see if symptoms progress.

Goodluck to them!

Sqip
 
I agree with you as far as suspecting spavin which would be my next line of investigation, particularly if schooling/jumping is becoming more of an issue and discomfort in the hocks could be making him compensate in other areas of his body, i.e. back, shoulders etc. Are there any other symptoms of spavin, for instance labouring downhill, increasingly unhappy about lifting hind legs for farrier, signs of depression in the stable and general change in temperament?

The metobolic theory is interesting and could be unrelated, but worth having the two lots of bloods done to rule out. Do you know if he has ever suffered from laminitis in the past? The Metabolic Horse site would be a good source of help and information. It may also be worth getting a urine sample done for analysis.

Sounds like your friend is determined to get to the bottom of it. Do let us know what happens hun. Hx
 
not sure if the peeing problem could be related or not as you say he has pretty much always been like that..
but the uncharacteristic stopping sounds like a sign of pain/discomfort. this happened to my horse last year, he started stopping in front of fences (he likes a good spook but never a dead stop) and it turned out he had damaged a suspensory.
fingers crossed for your friends horse!
 
Oooh lots of good ideas and lines of investigation here from you all - many thanks for the help so far
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I will pass it all on to my friend in the hope it makes sense from her angle. Of course the vet has been consulted, but with the horse in apparent good health (flexions not done as lameness/stiffness so slight, if at all)he really can't say without taking him in for a full workup. He'll be out straight away if the symptoms develop further.

Any further thoughts will always be welcome. Thank you very much again. Hmmmm EPSM - that's a very interesting thing to Google. I'll report that, too.

Just for further info, horse was being more 'bolshy' than 'nappy' and I gather was going forward, but not exactly where or how he was being asked to! He may well also have been displaying mild colic symptoms whilst in the field but my friend really thought he was weeing (or the horse thought he was) with nothing happening - but like I said, he doesn't spread himself much if at all.
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There are so many possibilities - spavin/hocks in some way, sacroilliac, kissing spines and ulcers (the only sign my horse ever showed of his grade 4 ulcers was throwing in the odd stop SJ).

In your friend's place I'd have the horse up to an equine vet for a loss of performance workup - mine was booked in for one which was going to take the form of an endoscopy (ulcer check) in the morning and lameness workup including kissing spines and everything joint/limb related in between in the afternoon. We never got as far as the afternoon!
 
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