Is this abuse/neglect?

Amaranta

Amaranta

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Following on from all the recent threads on cruelty etc, I would just like to point out that it comes in many forms.

What about this:

Owner has a horse that has been 1-2/10ths lame since April, no vet has been consulted but the back lady has been. Horse has been ridden throughout :(

Another owner has a horse with a history of laminitis, she puts said horse out on lush grass, he comes in 'footy' and owner decides to 'ride him hard' through it, then turns horse back out on said grass. Next morning, unsurprisingly, horse is crippled, vet is called and thinks the pedal bone is dropped.

Are the above two instances any less cruel than people who beat a horse onto a lorry.

Disclaimer: I would not beat a horse onto a lorry btw :cool:
 
Both cases are cruel and despite that I think you'd find it hard getting any welfare organisation to even consider the case.

There is a horse at my old yard who was 2/10ths lame and said he should be retired. Well his money grabbing owner thought different got a sharer whose paying £30 a week for a crippled horse who goes to fun rides, long hacks and jumps the poor thing.
 
alma said:
Just to say my old horse was 1-2 tenths lame and i was advised by the vet to ride him, as it was arthritis related !
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Yes, on a vet's advice, for arthritis riding little and often is a good way to keep the joint moving. BUT this horse has not seen a vet.
 
Those poor horses!! The laminitic one is especially cruel - why not do the easiest and kindest thing for it and limit its grazing??
 
Both are cruel.
Having a skinny horse and not worming it/feeding it..
Having a fat horse and overfeeding..
Not seeking a vets opinion on a lame or sick horse..
Its all as bad to me as beating a horse into a wagon when its clearly scared.
Any unnecessarily suffering to an animal whether it be a horse or otherwise is cruel.
 
i would say they are both cases of neglect and sadly that kind of treatment of horses seems to be more common these days. My farrier has a customer who in his words' is killing his ponies with kindness' as he allows them to stay out on good grass even tho they are laminitic:(
50 % of the horses/ponies that livery on the farm I'm on are overweight and stay that way all year round, they all think my horses are ' a bit underweight' even tho my vet and farrier agree they are fine, most of these are also over rugged throughout the winter, :rolleyes:. their owners all think they are being wonderfully kind to their horses/ponies and can't see that they are causing them health problems:(
 
Thanks for your opinions, glad to see that others share my concerns.

Sadly, it seems that because food and water are provided there is nothing the welfare agencies can do.

The owners should be ashamed of themselves and imho should not be allowed to own horses :(
 
I think it is downright cruel in both cases & owners should not be allowed horses as are obviously incapable of even basic care... Makes me bloody furious
 
Yes, both examples are cruel.

My list of what is cruel regarding horses isas follows. It is by no mean exhaustive:

Underfeeding a horse

Over feeding a horse

Under rugging a horse

Over rugging a horse

Keeping a horse alone

Over working a horse

Putting too much weight on a horse

Under working a horse and then hopping on it after two weeks of doing nothing and going hunting or similar!

Beating a horse

Overuse or incorrect use of spurs

Severe bits (and controvercially I include the Waterford, and single jointed snaffles that do not have curved bars used with flashes or grackles, in this)

Rapping and other nasty methods of making horses tuck up their legs

Rollkur and some western reining techniques

Some (but not all) Parelli techniques.
 
I have to agree with you wagtail but would rather see a severe bit used properly (kindly and in soft hands) than a soft snaffle used harshly (pulling horses back teeth out)
 
Damnation said:
Not seeking a vets opinion on a lame or sick horse..
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This drives me nuts...

One of our horses picked up a cough from where we go down for lessons, amazingly, didn't go through any of the others, the girl who rides him puts him in a stable down there, and ours tie up on the covered yard. About 3 of our instructors horses had the cough too....

After a week of the cough, after giving him a few lotions and potions, called the vet.

With 2 tubs of this powder stuff, it cleared up lovely, cost over £200....!!!!!! BUT we are happy that the cough cleared, and horse in back in full work.

A few people had said 'see how it goes....'..

WHY?

He was away from our other mares, in a different paddock, and our horses weren't allowed to touch our instructors horses...but who is to say the cough wouldn't have swept through the lot of them if left untreated? He had been feeling off-colour for a little while before the cough came out, acted like a loon once he felt better!

We ate beans again for a month or so....but meh! you can't pussy-foot about when it comes to horses.

Of course, minor ailments, cuts etc....can be dealt with by someone who knows what they are doing, the dentist has been recently and that cost me getting on for £150 for a tooth removal under sedation, horses were checked out by a physio person whilst we rode, horses ok, we are the broken ones!

There are many people who should be ashamed of themselves.

If you can't afford....don't bloody well have!
 
Money is not the reason the horse did not see the vet, the owner has pots of money and spends it like water, just not on vet bills it seems :confused:
 
Amaranta that makes it worse!! Jesus I am as poor as a church mouse but happily pay a vet / dentist / saddler / physiotherapist to ensure my boys are pain free and comfortable
 
Am I alone in that I don't class cruelty and abuse as the same thing?

To me, the OP cases are cruelty due to ignorance/lack of common sense, or plain old idleness/ lack of consideration/care. To continue cruelty when it is accepted there is a problem then becomes abuse. In these cases can ignorance (in that they appear to think they are doing the right thing) be classed as unintentional abuse?

Cruelty is like an onion, what one person may consider acceptable management (fat pony in a dry lot on a managed diet) another may see as cruel. That lame horse you bute every day so it can hobble around the field, that ancient horse standing miserably in the paddock too scared to lie down because he can't get up, weepy eyes, skinny and bothered by flies - just so you can say you gave it one last summer? Cruel or abuse?


Abuse, in my eyes, is intentional, eg:

Shutting a horse in a stable (pen - whatever) and not giving food/ water for a prolonged period of time on purpose not just because you are having a lie in, or have forgotten them.

Beating a horse, and by that I mean laying into it, not just an "Oi, buck your ideas up" whack.

Working any horse that you know is not capable of the workload, be it old, young, not up to weight, sick, lame, skinny, too fat, injured, have sores etc,etc
 
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IMO not calling out a vet doesn't constitute cruelty - if you know what is wrong with your horse.

We have always only called out the vet in extreme circumstances - even then we knew what was wrong 9 times out of 10 anyway allowing the vets to come prepared (when a vet trusts your judgement above his own, you know you're doing something right!)

Another friend of mine is the same. When the vet came out for some jabs, she showed him the treatment she'd been giving her horse and the vet said "I couldn't have done it better myself!"

Not calling out a vet when you have no idea what's wrong and carry on as normal is undeniably cruel. Not calling out a vet because through calling out other professionals you have worked out what's wrong is not cruel. Not calling out a vet because you know what is wrong is not cruel.

Often I will phone my vets to have a chat with them about things. They are more than happy to discuss over the phone.

Does this mean my vets are cruel because they have no interest to coming out to see my horse? of course not.

It's about context. not calling a vet does not equate to ignoring a malady!!!
 
Ah but the point is this particular owner does not know why the horse is lame and has had a back person out (not sure this is legal if the vet had not given permission), she does not want to call the vet because 'I do not want it to go down on his records' which in my mind consitutes neglect as well as cruelty!
 
The 'back person' is acting illegally in treating a horse without vet's consent. I hope the terminology is just slang for here, but a chiro or physio should be qualified as such. Using an unqualified one (who would be more likely to treat without vet authority) is a dubious thing to do at the best of times. :(
 
Naturally said:
The 'back person' is acting illegally in treating a horse without vet's consent. I hope the terminology is just slang for here, but a chiro or physio should be qualified as such. Using an unqualified one (who would be more likely to treat without vet authority) is a dubious thing to do at the best of times. :(
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That was my understanding too, I thought they had to gain the vet's consent, the 'back' person is also on dodgy ground here.
 
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