CorvusCorax
Deary me...
In pain, abused, or wearing a training aid, rarely used?
Is this dog....
- Thread starter CorvusCorax
- Start date
camilla4
Well-Known Member
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In pain, abused, or wearing a training aid, rarely used?
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It looks about as unhappy as the Labrador curled up on the sofa beside me!! Why - someone accused you of mistreating your dog?!!
In pain, abused, or wearing a training aid, rarely used?
[/ QUOTE ]
It looks about as unhappy as the Labrador curled up on the sofa beside me!! Why - someone accused you of mistreating your dog?!!
CorvusCorax
Deary me...
Not me personally, just wanted to dispel some fears regarding a certain piece of kit, which, used correctly, on the right dog and under the guidance of (for me, three)experienced trainers, probably helped save his life.
CAYLA
Well-Known Member
Nope and given his breed I doubt at all that he even feels what the impliment does to it's full extent....if it helps with any issues he has for you to beable to control him better then I don't see any issues and certainly do not see any mistreatment.
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
Yep totally abused and cowed !
As you know I am in favour of pinch collars used in the right circumstances on the right dog and if I had access to them would post pics of my friends dog wearing his. He did our H4H walk wearing it (although it wasn't used as he was a very good lad throughout), but it was there if needed. Without the extra reinforcement of commands the collar gives him this lad would have had a miserable life never socialising, or more to the point would possibly have been pts.
sloulou
Well-Known Member
I don't have a problem with choke chains - when used correctly by people that know what they are doing, they can be very effective.
CorvusCorax
Deary me...
The choke chain is not the item in question. Which is interesting in itself
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
He is wearing a pinch collar as well as a choke chain widget.
Ets. Synchronised posting CC
Ets. Synchronised posting CC
GinaB
Well-Known Member
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In pain, abused, or wearing a training aid, rarely used?
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'e's dead!
In pain, abused, or wearing a training aid, rarely used?
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'e's dead!
CorvusCorax
Deary me...
PMSL
That was a great day. The sun was shining, ah, remember sun......that picture makes me so happy.
That was a great day. The sun was shining, ah, remember sun......that picture makes me so happy.
sloulou
Well-Known Member
same answer from me tho
But the key is who uses these training aids - how they are used and in what circs. As with training aids for horses
But the key is who uses these training aids - how they are used and in what circs. As with training aids for horses
GinaB
Well-Known Member
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PMSL
That was a great day. The sun was shining, ah, remember sun......that picture makes me so happy.
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I feel a 'dead dog sketch' coming on
Sun? What is this elusive sun you speak of?
PMSL
That was a great day. The sun was shining, ah, remember sun......that picture makes me so happy.
[/ QUOTE ]
I feel a 'dead dog sketch' coming on
Sun? What is this elusive sun you speak of?
twisteddiamond
Well-Known Member
he looks really hard done by
he looks more miserable when you make him wear his jumper
the pinch collar is a good thing if used properly by/with someone who knows what they are doing
the sad thing is anyone can buy one off ebay, so people who dont have a clue are getting them and using them hence the bad rep
the pinch collar is a good thing if used properly by/with someone who knows what they are doing
the sad thing is anyone can buy one off ebay, so people who dont have a clue are getting them and using them hence the bad rep
CorvusCorax
Deary me...
Okies
I certainly wouldn't encourage everyone to run out and buy one or to use them for general issues like lead walking or for small or thin skinned dogs.
There is a forum member who has seen me deploying the pinch, I have no problem if she wants to say she was uncomfortable with my use of it, or if she thought that the dog was uncomfortable and I will take that on board.
As I said on another thread, I have a huge issue with people using slip leads and choke chains upside down, or the right way round but down around the shoulders somewhere, dogs straining, bracing, eyes bulging - if a dog is not shown the difference between a tight lead and a slack one, throw the chain and the lead in the bin, because there is no point in using it.
I certainly wouldn't encourage everyone to run out and buy one or to use them for general issues like lead walking or for small or thin skinned dogs.
There is a forum member who has seen me deploying the pinch, I have no problem if she wants to say she was uncomfortable with my use of it, or if she thought that the dog was uncomfortable and I will take that on board.
As I said on another thread, I have a huge issue with people using slip leads and choke chains upside down, or the right way round but down around the shoulders somewhere, dogs straining, bracing, eyes bulging - if a dog is not shown the difference between a tight lead and a slack one, throw the chain and the lead in the bin, because there is no point in using it.
CorvusCorax
Deary me...
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the sad thing is anyone can buy one off ebay, so people who dont have a clue are getting them and using them hence the bad rep
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Yep. That I find scary. I wish there was some mechanism where you could only buy them through training/working clubs.
the sad thing is anyone can buy one off ebay, so people who dont have a clue are getting them and using them hence the bad rep
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Yep. That I find scary. I wish there was some mechanism where you could only buy them through training/working clubs.
GinaB
Well-Known Member
As you know CC, I walk Beastie in a choke chain (or should that be check
) and the labs in slip leads. I know exactly how to work them and it angers me that people use them incorrectly
I have had people have a go at me as to how I walk my dogs. The slips are slack unless required whereas they have dogs on haltis and hlaters which IMO are so much worse
Vizslak
Well-Known Member
umm no...what have I missed while at vets?! *pootles off to read other threads*
CAYLA
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the sad thing is anyone can buy one off ebay, so people who dont have a clue are getting them and using them hence the bad rep
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep. That I find scary. I wish there was some mechanism where you could only buy them through training/working clubs.
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Agree with u there.....also find it scarey that some people can so readily even get a dog in the first place.....or an extendy lead
and although the extendy lead cannot be abused by the owner to the dog on it.....but it can certainly prove fatal to the dog it reaches when it gets to the end
[ QUOTE ]
the sad thing is anyone can buy one off ebay, so people who dont have a clue are getting them and using them hence the bad rep
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep. That I find scary. I wish there was some mechanism where you could only buy them through training/working clubs.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agree with u there.....also find it scarey that some people can so readily even get a dog in the first place.....or an extendy lead
and although the extendy lead cannot be abused by the owner to the dog on it.....but it can certainly prove fatal to the dog it reaches when it gets to the end
Spudlet
Well-Known Member
Henry is walked on a slip lead nowadays (yes, I do know how it works - a gundog trainer gave me instructions!), and amazingly enough he has learned about the concept of slack lead walking in a very short space of time.... However I don't let anyone walk him on it who doesn't know how to use it - he has plenty of normal leads for those occasions.
The worry is the ease with which these things (talking about prong collars here) are available, very difficult to regulate this in the internet age though.
The worry is the ease with which these things (talking about prong collars here) are available, very difficult to regulate this in the internet age though.
Gooby
Well-Known Member
In what circumstances would one use a pinch collar? I heard of them a while ago but didn't pay much attention as I've never had the need for this particular training aid. Oh and how exactly does it work? Looks like it could be painful in heavy hands
CorvusCorax
Deary me...
I wouldn't doubt that most people on here would know how a slip lead works
So....has anyone seen a dog being walked down the street in a pinch collar?
(Not that I attach the lead which walks the dogs should to the pinch - I use my hand or a small hand strap to the pinch and walk the dog on a normal collar and lead combo)
So....has anyone seen a dog being walked down the street in a pinch collar?
(Not that I attach the lead which walks the dogs should to the pinch - I use my hand or a small hand strap to the pinch and walk the dog on a normal collar and lead combo)
kirstyhen
Well-Known Member
Oh, he is definately abused, but it has nothing to do with his collar...
CorvusCorax
Deary me...
[ QUOTE ]
In what circumstances would one use a pinch collar? I heard of them a while ago but didn't pay much attention as I've never had the need for this particular training aid. Oh and how exactly does it work? Looks like it could be painful in heavy hands
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For me, I used it to get focus back from a dog who was becoming fixated on other dogs, cars and bikes/motorcycles.
He came to me at six months, unsocialised, I let him slide for another six months and due to my weak behaviour as a handler meant at 12 months old, I had a dog with the potential to be a danger to himself and to other dogs.
He saw my fear of his reaction as fear of other dogs and he tried to protect me.
He was stronger than me, by far, he wouldn't listen to or look at me. He was making my decisions for me.
After observation on what might work or not work, positive methods, distraction, clickers...all three trainers advised a pinch and initially I was horrified.
The collar fitted correctly is at the top of the neck, close to the ears. It is a quick release collar - you check, collar tightens in one action, you release, collar loosens - and links can be taken out or added.
It mimics a pinch to the back of the neck, like a bitch would give to a puppy.
Mine is made by Sprenger and is a bitch collar with rounded tips.
The idea is - first sign of a fixed gaze, check, look up at me, reward. So zoning out, results in one quick check with a command, focusing on owner, praise and/or food.
No tug of war, no digging spikes into the neck - pinch, release.
Eventually you stop using the pinch and use the normal collar and lead to correct. The dog will still wear it as a reminder.
Eventually you dispense with it entirely.
At this point in time, the only time he wears it are places where he may encounter trigger situations (as insurance, and never as a main collar) but like I say, I rarely have to use it.
He never struggles or shows fear when it is being fitted.
For me, it was that, or have a dog who could have killed himself or me on the road or seriously hurt another dog.
I now have a much more polite dog who is fine with other dogs, although he still does not like them bouncing into his personal space unbidden
I know a few dogs who wear them and they are all happy, healthy animals beloved by their owners.
As Tarr Steps once said on here, it is akin to bitting a horse.
In what circumstances would one use a pinch collar? I heard of them a while ago but didn't pay much attention as I've never had the need for this particular training aid. Oh and how exactly does it work? Looks like it could be painful in heavy hands
[/ QUOTE ]
For me, I used it to get focus back from a dog who was becoming fixated on other dogs, cars and bikes/motorcycles.
He came to me at six months, unsocialised, I let him slide for another six months and due to my weak behaviour as a handler meant at 12 months old, I had a dog with the potential to be a danger to himself and to other dogs.
He saw my fear of his reaction as fear of other dogs and he tried to protect me.
He was stronger than me, by far, he wouldn't listen to or look at me. He was making my decisions for me.
After observation on what might work or not work, positive methods, distraction, clickers...all three trainers advised a pinch and initially I was horrified.
The collar fitted correctly is at the top of the neck, close to the ears. It is a quick release collar - you check, collar tightens in one action, you release, collar loosens - and links can be taken out or added.
It mimics a pinch to the back of the neck, like a bitch would give to a puppy.
Mine is made by Sprenger and is a bitch collar with rounded tips.
The idea is - first sign of a fixed gaze, check, look up at me, reward. So zoning out, results in one quick check with a command, focusing on owner, praise and/or food.
No tug of war, no digging spikes into the neck - pinch, release.
Eventually you stop using the pinch and use the normal collar and lead to correct. The dog will still wear it as a reminder.
Eventually you dispense with it entirely.
At this point in time, the only time he wears it are places where he may encounter trigger situations (as insurance, and never as a main collar) but like I say, I rarely have to use it.
He never struggles or shows fear when it is being fitted.
For me, it was that, or have a dog who could have killed himself or me on the road or seriously hurt another dog.
I now have a much more polite dog who is fine with other dogs, although he still does not like them bouncing into his personal space unbidden
I know a few dogs who wear them and they are all happy, healthy animals beloved by their owners.
As Tarr Steps once said on here, it is akin to bitting a horse.
Vizslak
Well-Known Member
I've not seen dogs in pinch collars before or seen them used. But then I have little involvement in any breeds that are more likely to need them. I don't have a problem with training aids such as the pinch collar used in the right hands, if I had call to use one with a dog that required it I wouldn't hesitate to go and purchase one and find a trainer knowledgable enough to teach me how to use it. Having said that its very unlikely to happen! Given that the only rescues I have envolvement with are lurchey pants wimps and any other dogs are generally with me from a young age and wouldn't require any drastic action in later life! But you never know what might land on your doorstep I guess!!
On the choke chains and slip leads discussion....people using them wrong drive me nuts!! I hate to see a slip lead or choke on back to front and with a dog straining on the end of it....grrrrrr. The amount of gundogs at shows I see with slips on being used incorrectly really gets on my nerves...they are all shown on 'posh' slips so you would think they could figure out how to put a normal slip on and use it properly! My big dogs are always walked on slip leads, the lurcher has a choke chain as well which I use on her if we are walking in 'high dog traffic' areas as she can have aggression issues with other dogs, it just means I can check her back easier when she lunges off away from my heel! I'm only iccle and shes bloomin hugggggeee...I need all the help I can get!! LOL Similar with you and Bodo CC I should imagine!
On the choke chains and slip leads discussion....people using them wrong drive me nuts!! I hate to see a slip lead or choke on back to front and with a dog straining on the end of it....grrrrrr. The amount of gundogs at shows I see with slips on being used incorrectly really gets on my nerves...they are all shown on 'posh' slips so you would think they could figure out how to put a normal slip on and use it properly! My big dogs are always walked on slip leads, the lurcher has a choke chain as well which I use on her if we are walking in 'high dog traffic' areas as she can have aggression issues with other dogs, it just means I can check her back easier when she lunges off away from my heel! I'm only iccle and shes bloomin hugggggeee...I need all the help I can get!! LOL Similar with you and Bodo CC I should imagine!
CorvusCorax
Deary me...
The weight advantage did not help, no
Can I add I would not dream of urging everyone to run out and buy one....the timing, observation of the dog's behaviour and the assessment of the dog's suitability to take a pinch collar are all vital and I used mine under supervision for weeks with people standing over me saying 'now...praise...good' for several weeks.
This post is mainly to show that not all people who use them are animal abusers.
Can I add I would not dream of urging everyone to run out and buy one....the timing, observation of the dog's behaviour and the assessment of the dog's suitability to take a pinch collar are all vital and I used mine under supervision for weeks with people standing over me saying 'now...praise...good' for several weeks.
This post is mainly to show that not all people who use them are animal abusers.
Vizslak
Well-Known Member
I got that point CC but you are right to stress it!
They really shouldnt be available to just buy on the net, but then neither should shock collars IMHO (a training aid seen as cruel by some, that I own and have used) All these types of training aids can be invaluable in the right hands and timing and understanding of the dogs is crucial, in the wrong or inexperienced hands they can be brutal and I'm sure make unwanted behaviours worse instead of help.
CAYLA
Well-Known Member
I think u made a perfect point there Temsik....re the not having a breed likely to need one or having dogs from puppies......rather than the usual "I do not agree" as it tends to be owners in situations like you have suggested that make that kind of comment
clearly u are strangley different....or maybe u are just strange
I do not know how to quote the bits without quoting all and I hate re quoting the whole thing
I do not know how to quote the bits without quoting all and I hate re quoting the whole thing
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
I couldn't agree more with shock collars available on the net. Some people I knew of had a springer that kept chasing their sheep. They bought a shock collar and put it on the dog and apparently just zapped it randomly, but what was worse was that their 5 year old child got hold of the zapper, and until discovered was repeatedly zapping the poor dog. And they told this tale with amusement
Luckily, they didn't manage to train the dog , theres a surprise, so he was rehomed.
CorvusCorax
Deary me...
Baaa to Cayla ad Temsik and to TD.
As mentioned before I know a couple who have made their bitch worse because of their totally inept use of an e-collar - some people use them intentionally to *increase* drive - which is what they have done, unwittingly, because they refused to listen to advice given
Jesus MM, that is horrific
As mentioned before I know a couple who have made their bitch worse because of their totally inept use of an e-collar - some people use them intentionally to *increase* drive - which is what they have done, unwittingly, because they refused to listen to advice given
Jesus MM, that is horrific
Vizslak
Well-Known Member
Cheers Cayla...thats twice recently you have called me strangely different or words to that effect!
I'll take just strange if you like
