Is this reasonable?

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LadyLexicon

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Hi all,

I have my own yard.

My best friend has asked about coming here on livery and I’m looking to find out what’s a reasonable amount to charge her. I’m looking for your thoughts please on what you would charge your best friend? We’re not looking to make any money, but to cover costs and our time for the mornings and 3 days a week full livery.

I have big solid, rubber matted stables, track turnout with grass paddocks available if preferred. A small 20x30 ménage that she’d never need to book and direct access to the best hacking in Derbyshire. Winter the turnout will be every day but in all weather paddocks and on hardstanding as I don’t have lots of acres.

She needs 3 days a week full livery, which will be poo picking and hay in summer, full stable duties in winter.

Hay is £10 a week in summer and £20 a week in winter. She can buy her own bedding.

My partner suggested £340 per month to include all hay and bedding.

Any ideas on what we should charge please or where to even start figuring this out?
 
Word of advice - get absolutely EVERYTHING in writing and signed by both parties. You deffo need to make sure that you are completely covered in the event of anything happening - life can change in an instant, friendships that have gone on for years can suddenly crumble - so please make sure that you are covered in all aspects x

In terms of charging - I'm taking a guess that you'd need some sort of insurance to cover handling her horse as part of the full livery aspect, so I would take that annual cost and divide it by 12 to give a very rough monthly guideline cost. I'd also do the same with hay, feed and bedding (if you are going to be providing it). Finally I'd look in your area to see what other yards who offer full livery are like, pick the one that closest matches the set up that you have and adjust your cost from there.

Personally if it were me, I'd be charging about £350 to £400 ish per month.

As a rough guideline on the above price - my two cost me just under £200.00 per month to feed and buy bedding for - I'm on DIY livery and don't have access to a school, have to hack down a fairly busy road to get to the bridleways and we have great grazing but not a lot of it. So if you were to go for the £350.00 per month charge, then it would leave £150.00 to cover things such as insurance, maintenance of the land and your time etc :)
 
Whilst it’s ok to do mates rates, I’d say don’t make it too cheap. It’s still essentially a business transaction and it would be awful if your friendship suffered because you felt you were being taken advantage of.

Personally I wouldn’t do an all in fee in this situation.

I’d charge a standard box/diy amount on the competitive side for your area.

Your friend either supplies or pays for consumables at cost (feed/hay/bedding) costs for these are ever increasing!

Then an assistance charge.

Everything is transparent then.

So it might look something like £30 stable + 3 x £15 FL = £75pw + consumables

It would be worth agreeing prices for a half day TO/BI/skip/feed and holding for vet/farrier etc. just so you don’t end up doing free favours. A good friend will understand.
 
Minimum £100/week, you will have to get insurance and what happens when you fall ill or would like time away, you ll have to arrange and pay for cover. As above, have a very clear contract covering what you will and will not provide and an hourly rate to cover anything that crops up….get a weeks money in advance. I know this is a friend but a loose arrangement will lead to misunderstandings and potential fall out.
 
I would work out all costs individually - add something for water (if meters) include rates (if you have to pay them) tax (you will need to declare the income) and specific insurance (care and control - or something like that to cover being paid to handle her horses - BHS won't cover you if you're being paid). List all that out in detail so it's clear what is included.

For your time I would have a sensible estimate of what you are expected to do - and share that with her - then agree a rate - at least minimum wage £15 an hour. If it turns out to be more time (she wants boots on and rug change and fly mask and fly spray to turn out for example) then it's more.
 
Whatever you do make sure that the livery aspect is kept professional and that small niggles are dealt with immediately.

A “by the way can you double check that the xyz is done” as soon as you notice, if they are allowed to continue by the time you do deal with it chances are you will be be feeling fed up and it could escalate.
 
Fred66 said:
Whatever you do make sure that the livery aspect is kept professional and that small niggles are dealt with immediately.

A “by the way can you double check that the xyz is done” as soon as you notice, if they are allowed to continue by the time you do deal with it chances are you will be be feeling fed up and it could escalate.
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I agree with this completely - the "could you just " effect can really creep up on you.

Hold the horse for the vet, help unload feed delivery, pop a late night haynet in - all sound really minor and you feel like a right grump even thinking no when you're there anyway
But a few months in and you feel like someone's personal groom it's hard to get past.
 
Polos Mum said:
I agree with this completely - the "could you just " effect can really creep up on you.

Hold the horse for the vet, help unload feed delivery, pop a late night haynet in - all sound really minor and you feel like a right grump even thinking no when you're there anyway
But a few months in and you feel like someone's personal groom it's hard to get past.
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Agree

If they ask once and you genuinely don’t mind or it’s any emergency then fair enough but make sure that the second time they ask you say sorry not sure I’ll be around (whether you will or not).

Obviously if this is part of the full livery you offer then that’s different
 
From my limited experience of having liveries, in the UK and here in Ireland, I would be looking for anyone with good references rather than a personal friend. It rarely ends well when you start out as friends for all the reasons mentioned above and a few more. A nice polite but distanced professional relationship is far more likely to work in your benefit than helping a friend out.

Do you absolutely have to have a livery or are you doing it purely to help them out? There is a lot to be said for just doing your own thing IMHO.
 
Mrs. Jingle said:
From my limited experience of having liveries, in the UK and here in Ireland, I would be looking for anyone with good references rather than a personal friend.
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Mrs. Jingle said:
Do you absolutely have to have a livery or are you doing it purely to help them out? There is a lot to be said for just doing your own thing IMHO.
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This and this.

I had liveries for a short time, I never replaced them as and when they moved on and life is so much better for it.
 
Have a written agreement and try and think of all scenarios and then go through it with your friend and discuss what she thinks it reasonable before she moves in.
Things like, if her horse needs box rest, what is reasonable for the extra care.
Also, if the fencing needs mending, fields need harrowing, fertilising, etc etc.

If you have an agreement, you can always make generous decisions, much harder to implement changes which would make it more expensive for them.
 
If it helps my insurance for a very small set up which covers public liability and CCC for 2 liveries is about £550 per annum.
 
If your yard and fields are part of your private residence, how will you feel with having someone in your space. Will you set times that they can access the yard and time when you will want to lock up. What if they start to bring family/friends down, especially people you don’t know? All this needs to be covered in your written Agreement too.
 
Awww. Please don't write the idea off as some have suggested.

I have a couple of horsey friends (one who I have been friends with since high school) who I would bet every penny I own that they would be completely respectful, pull their weight and absolutely not take advantage of me.

I think the amount you have suggested sounds reasonable. Plus, good friends get it! Just make clear that you may need to wiggle the goal post a bit once you get an idea of how much it actually ends up costing.

All of my best horsey memories come from sharing little private yards with friends. I bet you will have an absolute blast together ❤️
 
I’m the friend who moved onto a yard. 3 years later and the friendship has failed and I’m out on my ear.
YO/ ex friend is not a details person so no contract 😕
I’ve been walking on eggshells the past few months.
I’m never making friends with a YO again, keeping it professional and transactional from now on.

In answer to your question I was on 5 day livery inc hay & bedding and that was £100 per week, now I’m looking to move it seems that’s cheap so might be a more suitable price for 3 day livery.
 
Take friend out for a coffee and explain that you'll need insurance and that the whole thing will have to be on a professional footing see what her reaction is. If it's ok both sit down and make a contract with itemized things in it and realistic charges and include a yearly increase in fees to cover inflation.be explicit in what you will and won't be doing
 
I'm thinking of other queries to be documented.

How will a conflict over arena use be resolved?
Is there a requirement to rake the track after arena use?
Stack poles and jumps out of the way?
Lunge or free school on the arena?
Must the arena be poo picked after use?
Can she bring her dog (even if she doesn't yet have one)
Ditto child?
Can she have a sharer for the horse?
Etc
 
Insurance is essential. You also need to check the planning implications - if it is currently only for private use and you have a paying livery it may require to be changed to business use and business rates could be applicable depending on the size of the yard and amount of land.
 
I looked into this when I got my yard.

You will need insurance
Watch out for business rates if the yard isn't in the curtilage of your home (mine is a separate property). I'm currently zero rated because its for personal use.

The insurance alone made it non viable for me to have a single livery and my land is too wet to support more horses.
 
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