is this seady toe

[jackessex]

http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h444/jackessex/th_jan2012087.jpg
it has a small line going up the front of hoof wall.he is barefoot and farrier has been telling me not to worry about it but as usual i am!

 

[jackessex]

sorry first time posting pic on here i have no idea why thats come out so small.

 

[Welshie Squisher]

Have you researched seedy toe and white line disease? Loads of information on the net.
Doesn't look like the cases I've seen, all have had clear seperation of the white line.
I'd like to say just trust your farrier but sadly some are so old school they think it can't be sorted. It can and it's not hard so he's right not to worry if it is seedy toe

 

[Marydoll]

My old mare had a bit of seedy toe, it was sorted by good farriery and bactakill 55. Picture isnt clear enough or big enough to see if its similar

 

[jackessex]

http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h444/jackessex/jan2012087.jpg
ive tries to make it bigger,thanks for replys but it has got worse over the last two trims.farrier did say he will just cut it right back if it gets worse but this frightened the life out of me as its been a long road to get his hoofs to look that nice!!

 

[CatStew]

Could you ask for a second farriers opinion? Or a vets opinion?

 

[Alyth]

It could well be seedy toe/white line disease. This problem is anaerobic so you have 2 options. Cut away the hoof so air can get to it. Keep it packed up with vaseline which has copper sulphate dissolved in it. To do this get a jar of vaseline and a spare jar. Put the vaseline jar into a saucepan of hot water so it goes liquid and start stirring in copper sulphate. You will need to split the mixture in half as the copper sulphate makes the mixture more, so you need the extra container! Very useful stuff this mixture. When it cools it hardens and it can be pushed into all sorts of cracks and crevices to fix greeblies!!! Either side of the frog for thrush for instance!! It's a pretty common complaint so don't worry overmuch!!

 

[Circe]

It could well be seedy toe/white line disease. This problem is anaerobic so you have 2 options. Cut away the hoof so air can get to it. Keep it packed up with vaseline which has copper sulphate dissolved in it. To do this get a jar of vaseline and a spare jar. Put the vaseline jar into a saucepan of hot water so it goes liquid and start stirring in copper sulphate. You will need to split the mixture in half as the copper sulphate makes the mixture more, so you need the extra container! Very useful stuff this mixture. When it cools it hardens and it can be pushed into all sorts of cracks and crevices to fix greeblies!!! Either side of the frog for thrush for instance!! It's a pretty common complaint so don't worry overmuch!!

If it is seedy toe it needs to be sorted though... I don't mean to sound alarmist, but my tb had v bad seedy toe, he was just left for it to get really bad, ( before I got him ) and eventually was very lame.
I bought him because if I hadn't he was going to the knackerman.
I then had a farrier that basically lied to me about the state of his feet, ( long story, won't bore you with it here - pm me if interested ) and after another few months the hoof wall broke off. TB was left with hoof wall separation almost up to the coronet, dropped pedal bone and sole.
New farrier (absolute god send - anyone in sydney who needs an excellent farrier feel free to pm me ) had to do a hoof wall resection ( although to be honest, most of the hoof wall had already broken off ), tb then had to had a fibrecast on his hoof, then abscessed for months. its only in the last 4 or 5 months that the hoof wall has grown down and the horse is consistantly sound.
If the seedy toe had been treated when it first started, by simply cutting it out, it would''ve saved alot of heart ache.

Agree with the copper sulphate in vasaline though, I did that and packed around the hoof resection.
Also cleaning with hydrogen peroxide is good.
Kx

 

[Alyth]

I quite agree that the earlier it is treated the easier it is to treat!! So treat a small crack rather than a huge chunk broken off!!

 

[tallyho!]

HI Jackessex, it looks to me like an old crack growing down but no photo of wall itself so I can't say for sure. You realise that there is quite a thick white line all around the hoof? So it could be an infection... I know you are on a bf diet but could it be improved to tighten up that wall?

This is seedy toe... and white line seperation.

The toe needs a better roll/breakover from that photo so you don't put pressure on the weakened structure. Let it grow out. Farrier should have been bevelling the toe out at this stage.

 

[jackessex]

picture from front
http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h444/jackessex/jan2012089.jpg
he has been on soaked hay and fast fibre for sometime now,but he was being stabled for very long periods,which he and i were not happy about he has now gone out on 24/7 turnout,rough grazing.and i have to say his feet look fantastic and he is moving better (he has spavins in both back hocks)when he was being stabled he had a lgl attack which i think was when i tried him on some rich haylage and his feet suddenly went splat!!with a lot of flare this is when the white line widened and he went lame.

http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h444/jackessex/jan2012064.jpg
this was same hoof before trim and showing what looks like blood in the white line,im assuming its like pulling your finger nail away from finger,he was unsound obviously at this point,and that happened in the space of about two wks also was landing toe first as you can see by the way he is wearing hoof.
he is still having fast fibre and he also has super biotin,brewers yeast,and mag ox
so am i better off having farrier trim the split out??

 

[jackessex]

HI Jackessex, it looks to me like an old crack growing down but no photo of wall itself so I can't say for sure. You realise that there is quite a thick white line all around the hoof? So it could be an infection... I know you are on a bf diet but could it be improved to tighten up that wall?

This is seedy toe... and white line seperation.

The toe needs a better roll/breakover from that photo so you don't put pressure on the weakened structure. Let it grow out. Farrier should have been bevelling the toe out at this stage.

hi tallyho,my farrier is a little difficult when it comes to doing "barefoot" stuff he is very old school so he doesnt roll them he was trimmed last wk and i normaly put a roll on after he has trimmed but havent had a chance yet,was going to do it tomoz on my day off.

 

[tallyho!]

It's tiny! I would just rasp it out completely and let it grow down. Not like my photo tho.... That was just an extreme example!

Do your usual mustang roll but a bit more on the toe to relieve pressure when he lifts off.

Re the fast fibre, I know lots of barefooters feed it but if I had flare like yours I would cut it out. I know ingredients say 2.9% sugar but starch is 5%. So that's nearly 8% sugar. All that soaking hay, you may as well not have bothered.

 

[M_G]

If you think it is seedy toe I was given 2 things to use by my farrier. Anti bac or hydrogen peroxixe between the 2 we got rid of it but it took forever (was only small too) but I worked a lot in the sand school so that didn't help

 

[M_G]

Peroxide (sorry on phone)

 

[amandap]

It looks related to the fine crack to me. It may be getting worse but don't forget it might just be the worst bit growing out and getting to the bottom of the hoof. I'd treat it though and use a soak of something like cleantrax. http://www.equinepodiatrysupplies.co.uk/Hoof-Treatments Tractor inner tubes or rubble sacks make cheap soaking boots. Red horse products also may be worth using following a soak.
Your diet is good so one soak may well be enough. The sole is being slightly distorted so it does need treatment imo. I think you're right to ask others btw.

Nice hoof btw.

 

[tallyho!]

Not that I like to disagree with amandap but, if the white line is so wide, I would take horse off ff straightaway.... Not only is is It high in sugars, but the vit a is sky high! No adult horse needs cow amounts of vit a, they are not producing milk and I know that excess vit a causes bone fragility and joint issues. Considering this horse has those issues suggests to me there is an overload of that vitamin.

If this horse were mine, and I know it is not, so I only know of limited things jackessex has posted, it would be on a speedibeet and hifi diet with the occasional apple.

 

[amandap]

Not that I like to disagree with amandap but, if the white line is so wide, I would take horse off ff straightaway.... Not only is is It high in sugars, but the vit a is sky high! No adult horse needs cow amounts of vit a, they are not producing milk and I know that excess vit a causes bone fragility and joint issues. Considering this horse has those issues suggests to me there is an overload of that vitamin.

I agree with you here. I thought the diet was soaked hay, limited grazing etc. I must have attributed a wrong post to the op.

Wanders off to re read carefully before posting again. lol

 

[jackessex]

I agree with you here. I thought the diet was soaked hay, limited grazing etc. I must have attributed a wrong post to the op.

Wanders off to re read carefully before posting again. lol

lol amandap he was on ltd grazing soaked hay up untill last wk when ive turned him out 24/7 as the previous way of keeping him ie the soaked hay was making no difference to the footyness and since trim has come sound again???i seem to be going round in circles with this chap,he was diagnosed with changes in feet and now im wondering if its a balance prob thats triggering all the changes in the first place,i read somewhere that a poorly balanced foot can cause white line to widen??i am prob barking up the wrong tree tho,so confusing as he has so many probs.http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h444/jackessex/jan2012073.jpg
this is a pic of the way the flare was before this last trim,the way they are both flared to the inside just looks weird to me,what would cause this its got to be a balance prob surely???is it time to get another opinion do you think as had same farrier all the way along.

 

[Oberon]

If you look at the slight 'wave' at the toe sole - that is a natural deviation, common in drafts.

My Tank (with textbook BF hooves) has the same dimple in both fronts

I have to ensure it gets kept clean or muck will pack in it and cause an infection.

I use a syringe of salty water to clean it out and pack it with Red Horse's ArtiMud or Field Paste routinely.

DO NOT ALLOW ANYONE TO TRY AND 'CORRECT' IT.

I walked away from farriers after an apprentice went 'digging for gold' and left my boy standing in pools of blood

.

 

[Oberon]

ps - the farrier appears to be leaving the walls too long.

 

[jackessex]

ps - the farrier appears to be leaving the walls too long.

thankyou thats what i thought