Is this threatening behaviour?

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NellRosk

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Sorry for going thread crazy, I know I've already posted one today but I want to query some behaviour I witnessed tonight. The guard dog on the yard has attacked one of my dogs before (that dog no longer goes to the yard) so is known for being aggressive. He's kept in a small garden and rarely let out and is a big young dog bounding with energy and has had no training, so I don't blame the dog. My other dog still goes to the yard, YO said he'd keep his dog locked away when liveries were there after Dougal got attacked. Anyway me and Ruby were out and about tonight mucking out etc. It was getting dark and I noticed yo had let guard dog out. He was stalking my dog like she was prey.... When ruby ran across the yard he slunk after her and then went low like cats do when they're stalking something. I was obviously worried and put her in the car, she's a little terrier and he's a Alsatian x rottie. Would you perceive this as threatening or just playful? To me it didn't seem playful, he was silent and very focused on ruby. It unnerved me a bit tbh.
 
It's beyond me why you continue taking a dog to the yard. The dog sounds completely out of control, and highly dangerous.
 
amymay said:
It's beyond me why you continue taking a dog to the yard. The dog sounds completely out of control, and highly dangerous.
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I can only presume YO didn't know I was there because my stables are round from his house... Some liveries kicked up a fuss after the attack and he said the dog would be locked away whilst liveries were there. I had no idea he was out or my dog would have been in the car!
 
I would agree that it certainly wouldn't be risking my dog at that yard. The Yo is clearly not concerned enough to check properly before he lets a dog out that is known to attack. Given the history with this dog i would view the behaviour as threatening. It's not like he went to meet your dog then playfully bowed down and stalked your dog or anything, I would defo be keeping my dog at home.
 
fankino04 said:
I would agree that it certainly wouldn't be risking my dog at that yard. The Yo is clearly not concerned enough to check properly before he lets a dog out that is known to attack. Given the history with this dog i would view the behaviour as threatening. It's not like he went to meet your dog then playfully bowed down and stalked your dog or anything, I would defo be keeping my dog at home.
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Yep, I'm no expert on dog behaviour but it didn't seem right to me. I know, such a shame because she loves it down there! The liveries that complained about him before have moved so YO clearly didn't think there was an issue anymore. I just went down to the second yard to the muckheap and thought s*** when I saw him!

Princess Rosie said:
I personally would not be taking your dog to the yard, I think you are asking for trouble and your dog will end up getting v badly hurt.
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Nope, will have to take her for a walk in the dark after horses now. :(
 
my Labrador stalks my corgi x but it is just a game when they are playing and the Labrador is the submissive dog, but I wouldn't be happy to see a strange dog behaving in that way towards him, especially one with a history of aggression.
 
silv said:
my Labrador stalks my corgi x but it is just a game when they are playing and the Labrador is the submissive dog, but I wouldn't be happy to see a strange dog behaving in that way towards him, especially one with a history of aggression.
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No, it creeped me out!

Elsbells said:
Me too ????
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Sorry, maybe I'm too trusting but when YO says dog will be locked away when liveries are there.... That's what I presume will happen? Dog hasn't been let out since the incident which was a while back now. I can only think it's because he didn't think anyone was at the yard!
 
NellRosk said:
Sorry, maybe I'm too trusting but when YO says dog will be locked away when liveries are there.... That's what I presume will happen? Dog hasn't been let out since the incident which was a while back now. I can only think it's because he didn't think anyone was at the yard!
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So it sounds like it was an accident the dog was let out while you were still there. As a YO I wouldn't be putting up with that lol. My 6 dogs are all out loose on the farm every day from dawn til dusk. I personally don't want other dogs on my farm and my liveries are respectful enough of my dogs to not bring their own dogs to my dogs' home. I'd leave your dog at home in future then you don't risk it being attacked AND the YOs dog can get out to run off some of its bounding energy .. win win for everyone.
 
amymay said:
The dog sounds completely out of control, and highly dangerous.
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I'm afraid I'd agree with this. If the dog sees other dogs as prey and attacks like this, it's unclear where it will draw the line and the behaviour may escalate, perhaps to humans or horses.

Stalking is not threatening behaviour, it's predatory behaviour, as in the dog does not want to see off a threat (which would involve barking and posturing), it wants to catch and kill what it's stalking. My dogs both stalk each other in play, but the difference is*that the other dog is looking right at the one who's 'stalking' and the tails are wagging!

I also would not risk my dog around this one, ever... And I don't have children but if I did, I wouldn't take them either.
 
Spring Feather said:
So it sounds like it was an accident the dog was let out while you were still there. As a YO I wouldn't be putting up with that lol. My 6 dogs are all out loose on the farm every day from dawn til dusk. I personally don't want other dogs on my farm and my liveries are respectful enough of my dogs to not bring their own dogs to my dogs' home. I'd leave your dog at home in future then you don't risk it being attacked AND the YOs dog can get out to run off some of its bounding energy .. win win for everyone.
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I also agree with this I cant understand why so many people who keep horses on livery feel the need to take there dog with them.
 
My rotti x gsd does the slinking crouch "stalking" behaviour, and in her case it means "I am going to approach you as stealthily as possible and when I'm close enough I will decide if I want to play with you or pounce on you" ... She is an unpredictable rescue dog of unknown origins anyway and thus always on lead, but it a behaviour that totally creeps me out as she is so fixated on whatever she is stalking - usually another dog. Even though she is on the lead I see other dog owners scurry out of the way in the distance and I don't blame them as I'd do the same if a dog was approaching like that. Your terrier is too small to be playing with a dog like this that has been known for aggressive reactions. Even during play, if this other dog takes something personally and they fight, the size and weight of the bigger dog gives it an advantage that does bear thinking about - even accidental injuries can be devastating.

I am in the opposite situation to you in that it's MY yard. I do have a kennel for my dog on my yard, but I have decided that for the lifetime of this particular dog, she is best off and less stressed at home.
 
Stalking/staring is the pause while the dog considers what to do next. That could be one of several things. The sensible thing is to remove your dog from the equation.
 
Spring Feather said:
So it sounds like it was an accident the dog was let out while you were still there. As a YO I wouldn't be putting up with that lol. My 6 dogs are all out loose on the farm every day from dawn til dusk. I personally don't want other dogs on my farm and my liveries are respectful enough of my dogs to not bring their own dogs to my dogs' home. I'd leave your dog at home in future then you don't risk it being attacked AND the YOs dog can get out to run off some of its bounding energy .. win win for everyone.
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Yeah definitely, such a shame though because when I'm not at work I'm at the yard and that's why I picked a yard that dogs were allowed on because I'd feel so bad that she's locked in that car/ at home whilst I'm there. :(
 
Alec Swan said:
D_R is right, and so to answer your question, 'Yes' the dog will eventually and most likely launch an attack upon some unwitting animal or human.

Alec.
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Fanatastic... I hope I'm not that human! When he used to be let out he'd run across the yard at me and jump up and grab my arm with his arm in a kind of 'play bite' as it didn't hurt but it's still terrifying none the less with a big dog! YO saw and thought it was funny.
 
NellRosk said:
Fanatastic... I hope I'm not that human! When he used to be let out he'd run across the yard at me and jump up and grab my arm with his arm in a kind of 'play bite' as it didn't hurt but it's still terrifying none the less with a big dog! YO saw and thought it was funny.
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To be honest I am not sure I would even want to put myself in a situation where that dog can jump on me and play bite, it does sound like its only a matter of time before it bites someone or someones dog, that kind of dog should not be allowed to run free around liveries I would speak to him about it or frankly I would find somewhere else to keep my horse where I am not in fear of being bitten everytime I step foot onto the yard, it cant be nice for you to have to go through that everyday.
 
Pinkvboots said:
To be honest I am not sure I would even want to put myself in a situation where that dog can jump on me and play bite, it does sound like its only a matter of time before it bites someone or someones dog, that kind of dog should not be allowed to run free around liveries I would speak to him about it or frankly I would find somewhere else to keep my horse where I am not in fear of being bitten everytime I step foot onto the yard, it cant be nice for you to have to go through that everyday.
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Well it wasn't allowed to run free with liveries because someone kicked up a massive stink saying she didn't want it near her children. But she's now gone so I think he's a bit more relaxed about it. I've heard he can be funny so don't especially want to talk to him about the dog and he just turns round and says well fine leave because there's nowhere else in my area!
 
MissTyc said:
I am in the opposite situation to you in that it's MY yard. I do have a kennel for my dog on my yard, but I have decided that for the lifetime of this particular dog, she is best off and less stressed at home.
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This. I have a rescue dog (one of two) who will NEVER go to the yard because he is a) afraid of/stressed out by horses; and b) has trust issues with other dogs . . . I have made sure to install excellent recall, sit, down and wait so that I can walk him safely (and I wouldn't hesitate to walk him in a muzzle if I thought he was going to be in a challenging environment), but the yard is no place for him.

In your situation, OP, the stressed out/unreliable dog is the one who lives at the yard . . . in your shoes I wouldn't risk taking my own dog up there . . . ever.

P
 
At this stage, I would guess the yard dog is just playing. But play is Nature's way of teaching an animal how to deal with more serious stuff in the future. As PS has said, this is the time to instil training as a mock attack could very well lead onto more serious stuff. If YO can't/won't control the dog, it should be locked up in a kennel.

With all the publicity given to dog attacks and new legislation on the books, someone needs to have a serious word with YO. It may seem a bit heavy handed but I would have no hesitation in having a word with the local dog warden who is trained for these situations and can explain the law discretely and without your identity being revealed as the source. As I understand it, under new laws, a dog only has to cause a member of the public anxiety to be labelled a "dangerous dog" with all the baggage that goes with it.
 
NellRosk said:
When he used to be let out he'd run across the yard at me and jump up and grab my arm with his arm in a kind of 'play bite' as it didn't hurt but it's still terrifying none the less with a big dog! YO saw and thought it was funny.
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Don't let it do that to you. When you see it bounding towards you, take avoiding action to stop it from following through. Urg! I can't stand dogs that jump up on people however even if the dog does it to other people, it is quite easy for you to teach the dog to NOT jump up on YOU :)
 
NellRosk said:
Well it wasn't allowed to run free with liveries because someone kicked up a massive stink saying she didn't want it near her children. But she's now gone so I think he's a bit more relaxed about it. I've heard he can be funny so don't especially want to talk to him about the dog and he just turns round and says well fine leave because there's nowhere else in my area!
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Yo sounds like a bit of an idiot! Just take care op try and stay out of the dogs way if you can but I wouldnt be taking my own dog down there its not worth the risk.
 
Spring Feather said:
Don't let it do that to you. When you see it bounding towards you, take avoiding action to stop it from following through. Urg! I can't stand dogs that jump up on people however even if the dog does it to other people, it is quite easy for you to teach the dog to NOT jump up on YOU :)
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I've seen very few do the correct manoeuvre to ward off a dog that jumps up, except the police dog handler who called the other day. Just quickly raise your knee so you catch the dog smartly in the chest at mid jump.

Another tip that the post office seems to know all about is to take treats for the dog that may be aggressive. No need to hand them out, just toss them on the ground near the dog and then give by hand when you are confident that you won't get bitten!
 
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