Peter7917
Well-Known Member
Just read somewhere that puppies due for life as guide dogs are taken from their mum at 6 weeks old?
is this true?
- Thread starter Peter7917
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twiggy2
Well-Known Member
Not sure about current protocol but it definitely used to be 6 weeks old that they went to puppy walkers
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
As Twiggy says, yes it certainly used to be the case. In fact it was quite common practice for all breeders to let pups go at 6 weeks 20 odd years ago, I did it with a few litters and have to say never saw any ill effects in pups or dam.
ETS They aren't exactly "taken from their mum" as at 6 weeks old they should be fully weaned.
ETS They aren't exactly "taken from their mum" as at 6 weeks old they should be fully weaned.
twiggy2
Well-Known Member
Guide dogs for the blind state that puppies are placed with puppy walkers at 6-8 weeks
MotherOfChickens
MotherDucker
I know it used to be done, I personally think its a little too young for your average dog but Guide Dogs really have to be exceptionally well socialised, I suspect thats why?
Peter7917
Well-Known Member
One of the comments was that they would spend much of their time playing at 6-8 weeks which was why they were taken from mum at 6 weeks so they didn't get chance to learn lots about playing and therefor be less interested in other dogs while working?
Cinnamontoast
Fais pas chier!
I'm guessing that would make them more dog neutral. My first two were just 7 weeks when we got them and they were totally disinterested in other dogs. My younger ones were 9 weeks and I think that had an adverse impact on them, tbh. I know people talk about bite inhibition and socialisation with other dogs being the reason they're kept til 8 weeks, but as some pups will be almost fully weaned at 4 weeks and mum will be sick of a big litter, I think slightly earlier (not 4 weeks!) is fine.
CorvusCorax
'Do you come here often?'
I know people who prefer to get pups at 6 weeks as it 'increases the bond' with them.
Those dogs I find clingy/reliant/not good at working independently. Just my own observation but suitable for that sort of job.
Those dogs I find clingy/reliant/not good at working independently. Just my own observation but suitable for that sort of job.
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
Guide dog puppies leave mum at 6-7 weeks old. By this time they are fully weaned.
They are a little younger than normal puppies but this is because they need to be very well socialised.
I can assure you that guide dog puppies and young training dogs do play lots!
Often puppy walkers will have another dog and if not the puppies do go to puppy training classes where they will have contact with and play with other pups of various ages.
It's important that the pups are socialised with other dogs to avoid dog distraction while working. They learn the difference once in training that when they are in harness they are working but when not working they are just like other dogs.
They are a little younger than normal puppies but this is because they need to be very well socialised.
I can assure you that guide dog puppies and young training dogs do play lots!
Often puppy walkers will have another dog and if not the puppies do go to puppy training classes where they will have contact with and play with other pups of various ages.
It's important that the pups are socialised with other dogs to avoid dog distraction while working. They learn the difference once in training that when they are in harness they are working but when not working they are just like other dogs.
Equi
Well-Known Member
It depends on the puppy. Some grow up faster. I had a litter once i had to rehome the biggest one at 5 weeks old because at that young age he was breaking out of the whelping box, shed, and running away! He was just ready to be gone lol
Moobli
Well-Known Member
Yes I believe it is still the case that puppies destined to be trained as guide dogs are given to puppy walkers at 6-7 weeks of age. I always thought the reason was because they need to be exceptionally well socialised and handled. I have a friend who trains Guide Dogs, so will ask him to clarify.
GirlFriday
Well-Known Member
I used to have a blind friend who owned labs but wouldn't have a guide dog becasue he felt they were brought up, trained and worked in ways that were excessive. A lot of people seeing him and his dogs assumed they were guide dogs so I think he got into a lot of conversations about why he personally didn't feel it was a great life for a dog.
Have to say that based on his views I changed which charities I donated to... But things may have changed/there are of course worse lives for dogs...
Have to say that based on his views I changed which charities I donated to... But things may have changed/there are of course worse lives for dogs...
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
I think most people would be surprised. Guide dogs are pretty much like any other dog except they are very well trained and socialised. They spend the first year+ in a family home learning all the things a normal pup would learn.
House training, walking on a lead, General obedience training. They live as part of the family. When they start harness training they are taught to walk in a straight line and avoid obstacles on the pavement. When not in harness they are much like any other dog. They have free runs, toys etc.
The only difference is that they are very well socialised to allow them to go in to shops restaurants etc.
They get the best health care possible.
It's a shame that all pet dogs don't get the training and care and attention that in training guide dogs get!
Also because they are allowed to go to work with their guide dog owners they are not left alone for hours on end.
It's a shame that people judge what they really don't know about.
House training, walking on a lead, General obedience training. They live as part of the family. When they start harness training they are taught to walk in a straight line and avoid obstacles on the pavement. When not in harness they are much like any other dog. They have free runs, toys etc.
The only difference is that they are very well socialised to allow them to go in to shops restaurants etc.
They get the best health care possible.
It's a shame that all pet dogs don't get the training and care and attention that in training guide dogs get!
Also because they are allowed to go to work with their guide dog owners they are not left alone for hours on end.
It's a shame that people judge what they really don't know about.
Clodagh
Playing chess with pigeons
My friend walks pups for them and they have a great life. Asking a dog to work is not abuse and they need to be trained to do it, I agree with Sandstone.
Our last 2 pups came home just on or a day or two under 7 weeks old.
Our last 2 pups came home just on or a day or two under 7 weeks old.
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
Just because your friend is blind does not mean he knows about guide dogs. Unless he's had one himself he couldn't judge.
A lot of time, money and care goes in to the breeding, training and care of these dogs.
Some guide dog owners are better than others but once with the owner a close eye is kept on the dogs welfare and the dog always belongs to guide dogs so if there is a major problem the dog can be taken back.
A great deal of care is taking in matching a dog with its owner and any problems can usually be over come.
As I said before if all pet dogs got the care and attention these dogs get they would be very lucky.
Moobli
Well-Known Member
I agree Sandstone. The majority of guide dogs have a wonderful life.
CorvusCorax
'Do you come here often?'
Any type of assistance dog has to cope with stress/pressure and are selectively bred with that in mind, or should be.
popsdosh
Well-Known Member
It has always been explained to me that Pups tend to bond better with an owner at 6-7 weeks as it is how they develop mentally . I alway insist on having my working labs at this stage and will not entertain one older not sure where this 8 week thing has come from but I guess human values coming into play again! I personally think the longer they spend in the litter the bigger issue there is when split up and from experience most Bitches have just about had enough by six weeks.
GirlFriday
Well-Known Member
That is a bit silly to say... like you can't disagree with what happens to TWH with soring to get the big lick (referencing s thread in NL) unless you've owned a sored TWH.
Now, I'm not an expert, and being blind doesn't make him one but he had looked into it in some detail (a lot more than me!) and been offered one, he turned it down.
Doesn't mean he was right but he was reasonably doggy and more informed than most.
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
I've no idea what your first reference means.
Anyway your friend would not simply be offered a guide dog. He would have to apply and there is a long and thorough application process. Then a wait to be matched with a suitable dog. Then be trained with that dog. So he simply would not have been offered a dog without going through that process.
Every one is entitled to their own opinion that's true, but it does help to have your facts right.
Edited to add that any dogs that don't make it are rehomed to fully checked out pet homes. Also retired dogs, if they don't stay with the guide dog owner are also regimes to fully checked out and approved homes.
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GirlFriday
Well-Known Member
There is a thread in Tack Room (used to be called New Lounge) about Tennessee Walking Horses at the minute. Plenty of people there saying they don't approve of what happens to them without having ever had one themselves. That was all. Noone has to experience everything to know what they think of it.
And no, I don't mean someone randomly offered the guy a guide dog down the pub or something. When he was going blind it was one of the options discussed with the professionals to help him get around (espec becasue he already had labs). He researched it and decided against.
Moobli
Well-Known Member
There are so many different opinions on the optimum time for pups to go to their new homes that I think you just have to go by your own experience and knowledge. I would prefer a pup at 7 weeks personally, as I think at 6 weeks they are still learning important lessons from mum and siblings at that age, but I also believe they go through a fear impact period at 8 weeks and so that can be the worst time to have to deal with so many new (and potentially frightening) experiences.
My next pup will be imported and so I won't bring him home until he is almost four months - not the ideal, but I have absolute trust and faith in the wonderful breeder to do extensive socialising as well as to begin the initial foundation training.
CorvusCorax
'Do you come here often?'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38840724
Interesting. Thats another two weeks worth of food to buy
Interesting. Thats another two weeks worth of food to buy
Moobli
Well-Known Member
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38840724
Interesting. Thats another two weeks worth of food to buy
I wondered about that today. The may be exempted?
CorvusCorax
'Do you come here often?'
If it's an in house training programme then it's probably not counted as a sale and will not be impacted, I just posted it here as that was the way the debate had developed.
My comment was more aimed at 'commercial' breeders.
My comment was more aimed at 'commercial' breeders.
aintgotnohay
Well-Known Member
it doesnt matter if they guide dogs or other dogs destined for a life working or pets.its 8 weeks old there are no exemptions.from 2nd feb no puppies no matter what go to new homes till 8 weeks plus .plus anybody without a license can only breed 2 litters a year.
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
I'm guessing that as guide dog puppies are not sold they just go to volunteer puppy walkers that it may not apply. I will find out.
aintgotnohay
Well-Known Member
i was told it makes no difference what dogs you breed and where they will go 8 weeks across the board well thats what my local council said.
the shadster
Active Member
I have had the pleasure of owning 6 GSD's from pup. One came at 5 1/2 weeks (litter of 12) mum had had enough, one at 6 weeks (litter of 13) ditto, 2 at 7 weeks, 2 at 8 weeks. I really can't say there was much difference, they were all fully weaned but if anything the older 8 weekers took longer to integrate/learn boundaries with the existing adult dogs (I always have 3). I'd plump for 7 weeks as being ideal for my breed.
Clodagh
Playing chess with pigeons
I have always had pups at 7 weeks, but this next one will be 8. I suppose on the plus side I get a weeks more proper sleep before I am standing on the lawn at all hours!