ISH, chances of being a broodmare??

cundlegreen

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I've just had the devastating news that my 6 yr old ISH mare has a major back ligament injury, thus retiring her from competition. She is a nice sort, from performance bred sire and dam, and her life in front of her. What are the chances of finding her a home as a broodmare? I'm a realist, and rather than let her fall into the wrong hands, I will have her put down, but it seems such a waste, as she has a temperament second to none, and even with this injury, was out eventing and going well, so a very generous mare. Anybody got any options?
 

SusieT

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Why did she get the injury? I would have thought it would a) affect her ability to carry a foal/be covered and b) if shes 6 and her back hasn't stood up to work why would you add those genes to the next foal?
 

cundlegreen

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Why did she get the injury? I would have thought it would a) affect her ability to carry a foal/be covered and b) if shes 6 and her back hasn't stood up to work why would you add those genes to the next foal?

Trauma due to field injury or being cast. That's what the vet at NEH says. She sees no reason why she shouldn't be a broodmare. And, yes, I know where you're coming from re breeding, but she has been out competing BE and going really well, without us having any idea of what was going on. A very generous and giving horse, so a good candidate for a broodmare, as I rate temperament and willingness to work very highly.
 

Tetrarch 1911

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If she was to retire as a broodmare, would you be breeding from her, or are you looking to sell/lease to a breeding home? What's her breeding? Do you have a photo or two we could look at so we could maybe come up with some ideas?
 

cundlegreen

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If she was to retire as a broodmare, would you be breeding from her, or are you looking to sell/lease to a breeding home? What's her breeding? Do you have a photo or two we could look at so we could maybe come up with some ideas?

I won't breed from her, my own stallion wouldn't suit her, and I already have two mares here better bred/ performers than her, as she had only just started her career. She is by Watermill Swatch, the only TB to pass the KWPN's 70 day grading. Her dam's sire is Rakish Paddy, ID, who jumped internationally at 7. Dam's dam is a TB, so a classic ISH. Its a question of finding a home for her where she wouldn't be ridden. Lots of people would be happy to buy her cheap, then carry on competing her, as she doesn't really show any signs of damage. Here is a link to her competing 2 weeks ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-oxq3XItJI
The dressage judge was very complimentary about her. Its such a shame, but I won't have her abused, so its a breeding home, or putting her down so she doesn't get into the wrong hands.
 

Equi

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If i were in your boots, i would try her with an outside stallion that complements her and see what exactly she produces. If its something exciting, then she might indeed land a good brood home (i know of three people off the top of my head within a few miles of me who solely breed good mares and don't even ride, but the care is next to none and they take very great pride in their broods)

If she produces a bog standard foal, that is less than that of the stallions other mares then you will know what the answer is. Also, you will know if she can physically handle a brood life.

On the other hand, there is many good mares out there what makes yours special?
 

ihatework

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For me the primary question would be if she could carry a foal with this back condition and not be unreasonably uncomfortable in doing so?

If you and your vet think she could comfortably carry a foal then I would probably see if you could loan her as an ET recipient
 

cundlegreen

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For me the primary question would be if she could carry a foal with this back condition and not be unreasonably uncomfortable in doing so?

If you and your vet think she could comfortably carry a foal then I would probably see if you could loan her as an ET recipient

Thats a thought, but I'm not sure she'd be big enough? I can't breed her myself, I have two mares here with foals, and not nearly enough grazing to support a third, given that we are waterlogged ATM. Trying to find an option that doesn't involve her being put down.
 

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What are the chances that given enough time she could return to ridden work even if not competitively or is that completely out of the question? By time, I mean turned away for up to two years not just a quick six months.

If you (anyone) were to breed from her I would insist it was to a pony stallion of some sort and by AI too; lots of lovely sport ponies on SPSS. Just because at present, she can't take the weight of a rider, I would be loathe to not at least try a pony stallion as by the time the foal is any weight to carry around she would be nine months at least in recovery; complete natural rest can solve a multitude of problems but being totally realistic, if worse came to worse and you saw her struggling, you could put down before foaling.
 
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cundlegreen

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What are the chances that given enough time she could return to ridden work even if not competitively or is that completely out of the question? By time, I mean turned away for up to two years not just a quick six months.

If you (anyone) were to breed from her I would insist it was to a pony stallion of some sort and by AI too; lots of lovely sport ponies on SPSS. Just because at present, she can't take the weight of a rider, I would be loathe to not at least try a pony stallion as by the time the foal is any weight to carry around she would be nine months at least in recovery; complete natural rest can solve a multitude of problems but being totally realistic, if worse came to worse and you saw her struggling, you could put down before foaling.

She could return to ridden (after all, she was competing last week), but damage to the SSL is severe, and she would also need surgery to her spinous processes. With the best will in the world, I have 6 other horses here, and am having to box up to dry land, although no grass, so much as I would like to, I can't keep her as a field ornament. If you look at the video link further back in the thread, you wouldn't think anything was wrong with her. I don't want to advertise her, have somebody take her, then find she's being ridden and abused with this injury. The vet at NEH was happy that she could be covered, and carry a foal with no problems.
 

AdorableAlice

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Why do horses break our hearts so frequently, what a shame.

Given the vets are happy that she is sound to breed from and the injury is trauma, a breeding loan would be the way forward if she was mine. Carefully researched and legally water tight. If that can not be found a sad appointment would be made to ensure I knew where she was.
 
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madlady

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Why do horses break out hearts so frequently, what a shame.

Given the vets are happy that she is sound to breed from and the injury is trauma, a breeding loan would be the way forward if she was mine. Carefully researched and legally water tight. If that can not be found a sad appointment would be made to ensure I knew where she was.

Totally agree.
 

ycbm

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She could return to ridden (after all, she was competing last week), but damage to the SSL is severe, and she would also need surgery to her spinous processes. With the best will in the world, I have 6 other horses here, and am having to box up to dry land, although no grass, so much as I would like to, I can't keep her as a field ornament. If you look at the video link further back in the thread, you wouldn't think anything was wrong with her. I don't want to advertise her, have somebody take her, then find she's being ridden and abused with this injury. The vet at NEH was happy that she could be covered, and carry a foal with no problems.

I can't quite understand this, sorry. Can you add some more detail? Your horse was carrying the injury but still competing and you were only alerted to it how, by slight performance issues?

If she didn't appear to be in pain, how can the injury be so severe that a year in the field won't return her, still at a very young age, to life as a hack and low level Riding Club horse?

I do realise you are only asking about her potential as a broodmare, sorry, but others are suggesting they would put her to sleep, and that sounds pretty drastic to me for a horse that was competing carrying the injury only a week ago?

I firmly believe that there are much worse things for an injured horse than to be put down, and would not blame you if you chose that route.
 

cundlegreen

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I can't quite understand this, sorry. Can you add some more detail? Your horse was carrying the injury but still competing and you were only alerted to it how, by slight performance issues?

If she didn't appear to be in pain, how can the injury be so severe that a year in the field won't return her, still at a very young age, to life as a hack and low level Riding Club horse?

I do realise you are only asking about her potential as a broodmare, sorry, but others are suggesting they would put her to sleep, and that sounds pretty drastic to me for a horse that was competing carrying the injury only a week ago?

I firmly believe that there are much worse things for an injured horse than to be put down, and would not blame you if you chose that route.

I only thought something wasn't quite right from Jan, when she looked tucked up, girthy, and grumpy. Did various tests and diagnostics, and finally on a hunch had her back x rayed. This showed bone spurs on the spinous processes. I was happy to have her operated on, as I wanted to sell her as a higher end event horse, so was prepared to pay within reason. My vets scanner showed something happening in the SSL but I took her to NEH to get a clear picture. Neither the vet or I could understand how she'd been able to perform, jump well, and not show much in the way of discomfort. The SSL has actually torn away for the vertebrae in places, so there's massive trauma there, PLUS the bony processes that have started up due to the trauma, which, apparently, must have happened last year some time. What a fantastic mare to soldier on like she has, but of course, I feel guilty even though my vet, who is a good horse vet, thought I was fussing over very little. As I've said before, there is a link to a dressage test taken two weeks ago. See if you can spot a problem. I might add she's ridden by a 3* rider who also couldn't spot the problem.
 

ihatework

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Being as polite as possible, the video to me does have some tell tale clues that all is not right. Contact issues and not really swinging / over back. Now this is not uncommon at all, especially at lower levels. The video is impressive for a horse harbouring such medical issues (what a diamond she must be), but for a fit healthy horse the test was for me mediocre (don't worry I'm the queen of producing mediocre tests too, lol!!).

That's by the by, all that matters now is the horse. I'm not convinced a breeding loan will be that easy to find for an unproven horse, but worth a shot. Rubbish position to be in 😢
 

ycbm

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I only thought something wasn't quite right from Jan, when she looked tucked up, girthy, and grumpy. Did various tests and diagnostics, and finally on a hunch had her back x rayed. This showed bogiven ne spurs on the spinous processes. I was happy to have her operated on, as I wanted to sell her as a higher end event horse, so was prepared to pay within reason. My vets scanner showed something happening in the SSL but I took her to NEH to get a clear picture. Neither the vet or I could understand how she'd been able to perform, jump well, and not show much in the way of discomfort. The SSL has actually torn away for the vertebrae in places, so there's massive trauma there, PLUS the bony processes that have started up due to the trauma, which, apparently, must have happened last year some time. What a fantastic mare to soldier on like she has, but of course, I feel guilty even though my vet, who is a good horse vet, thought I was fussing over very little. As I've said before, there is a link to a dressage test taken two weeks ago. See if you can spot a problem. I might add she's ridden by a 3* rider who also couldn't spot the problem.


That's really interesting, thank you. Some horses are incredibly good natured. I hope you find the right solution for you and her. I would be tempted myself to give her a year in a field and see if she can be a happy hack, given her low response to pain, but I completely understand anyone who doesn't have that option or simply feels it's not what they want to do. I'd have no hesitation in putting her down if there was no other way to keep control of her future.


Well done for knowing your horse and pushing for x rays, too.
 

Lgd

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I think for the right breeder people would consider her as a breeding loan.
I'm not breeding at present (too many horses, not enough land - sound familiar!) and I mostly breed for dressage.
I do know someone who might consider her or have suggestions of who might - will PM you
Worth advertising as a potential breeding loan on the British Breeders Network Facebook page.
 
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