its gotten worse with her..... going to try clingfilm

[_daisy_]

ive had it with winter. I hate winter. Why cant this blasted weather change and either have some really cold weather to harden the fields up or dry weather to dry them out.

Yes its the dreaded MF again.

After hunting Chantin on Boxing Day her mud fever flared up. Course of antibiotics and bute and she was fine. The swelling had gone down, all the infection had gone, the scabs had gone and she was left with pink skin.

Not good this morning but really I shouldve noticed that she wasnt right last night.

She was a pain to put her turnout boot on NH and her leg was slightly swollen but I thought nothing of it as she can be an arsy sod at the best of times and some days her legs are puffy, others not. Ive put this down to her being 17.2hh and in a 12x12 stable. (she used to have a 16x12 stable and she never got puffy legs)

But gone down tonight to fetch her in etc, and her leg is awful. Its swollen up more, more up her leg than before, and its really warm. Looks like ill be calling the vet again in the morning for another course of antibiotics and hopefully some more cream that works.

So apart from this post being a bit of a rant I need your help.
She has an odd one or two scabs on her leg (inside of her NH and some on the outside of NH) She wont let you pick them off as it hurts and bleeds.

<font color="green"> What is the best cream to put on to remove the scabs? </font> Im thinking of clingfilming her leg in the morning as shes staying in, then when I get back from work I can take all the remainding scabs off, clean the leg thoroughly and apply cream from vet.
Also <font color="blue"> can I put Thermatex leg wraps on instead of bandaging over the clingfilm? </font>

thanks guys in advance

 

[brightmount]

I've been using a combination of Sudocrem and MABS spray from:

http://www.mudfever.net/

You could find this product a godsend as you don't have to pick off the scabs - it works its way through them. I've found it brilliant. I ordered the free trial sample and it was so good I now have the full size product.

Sudocrem is also excellent on clean dry legs, and it stays on well if you are turning out.

We caught my girl's MF early and have kept it in check, so I have also used Equilibrium Clse Contact Chaps to keep her legs clean and continued to turn her out. I haven't hosed her legs since the MF started, just towel off any wet mud and brush the rest off when dry. I occasionally hibiscrub but as little as possible.

 

[patchandloopy]

I used Aloe vera juice (human) for my horse and aloe vera gel to the healed skin after scabs have formed and after they have come off, a week after using the juice and gel and no access to mud the MF cleared up really well.

ALso my YO used E45 cream under cling film on her horse.

 

[Maesfen]

This winter has been a bummer! I'll be glad to see the back of it, quite agree¬

I wouldn't wash at all (I know you didn't say anything about washing!) I would put the Thermatex wraps on first to dry her off and warm her up again, then I would brush off dry mud if you can and put some cream on (zinc &amp; castor oil, protocon, anything like that,) smother it then wrap in clingfilm until the morning. I think you'll have to use bandages to be on the safe side to keep the clingfilm, not just the wraps.
Hope it clears up soon but I won't hold my breath until the dryer weather comes!

 

[brightmount]

Actually I'll put money on it that your vet will sell you a pot of Flamazine for £50+. This is what was recommended to me, but I had some left over from a previous insurance claim so didn't need to buy any more. I used it for a bit then realised it was probably costing £5 a day - so switched to Sudocrem which I actually prefer anyway as it is water resistant.

 

[_daisy_]

right well I got my free sample of the MABs stuff but really havent got a clue what to do with it so do i just squirt it on and leave it then brush the scabs off or what???
have got sudocrem, and her legs will be clean and dry in the morning.
i dont have equilibrium chaps but have 2 sets of sportabac ones and 1 set of westropp ones. May have to look at investing in some Equilibrium ones if they are that good.

 

[_daisy_]

ooh we used to feed aloe vera to a previous mare we had for sarcoids. also had the aloe gel to put on the sarcoids and the skin around them. Will have to dig it out to see if its ok to use - does this stuff go off???
dont have e45 cream but do have sudocrem. nearly the same??

 

[_daisy_]

MFH - i wish winter would go away and never come back - the rain weve had has bee horrendous and it doesnt really help my cause that im in the worse field on the yard!!! YO doesnt seem to really understand my problem with Chantin as theyve never had it with their ponies and maybe i just have given up complaining about it cos it doesnt help matters. Am going to have a chat with her hopefully tomorrow to see if we can come to some sort of arrangement over some hard standing for her.

I always wash her legs off when she comes in but really its only her hooves and coronet band and then her boots whilst theyre on her legs. her legs dont get washed but will wash them maybe at a weekend.
My major problem with this horse is its sensitive skin. Roll on summer - I have nearly as many problems with her but fly related.
Im very wary about leaving mud on her legs because of the MF - always think its going to make it worse but realistically is it?
also is there a point to me leaving her legs to dry, to brush the mud off in the morning before she goes back out to play in the same boggy field???

i dont have zinc/castor oil cream but do have protocon, and probably every other potion, cream off the shelf of the saddlery in my first aid cabinet.

Should i just be looking at using a moisturising cream to use with the cligfilm?
right ill bandage her leg just to make sure, would hate for her to get in a flap over a thermatex boot when noone is around to help her.

 

[_daisy_]

bloody likely at £50 a tub if sudocrem is as good. If only Dermobion was still available. I have a tube but havent got a clue what the sell by date is - sure it still works but probably not as good after the sell by date.
I loved Dermobion for anything like this. One of two applications and life was great

 

[brightmount]

I've still got some dermobion, but the problem with that approach is you have to locate the scab, remove it, and apply the dermobion and repeat for each scab. Life's too short! I prefer a big pot of sudocrem and slap it on. It's a preventative as well as a cure

 

[_daisy_]

true but once ive got all the scabs off i plaster the dermobion on - nice green legs!!!

no honestly its expensive but she looks like a dot to dot when ive finished her.
Will certainly try the sudocrem and clingfilm in the morning - all i can say is thank god she hasnt got it on all 4 legs - only the one

 

[kcgibson]

A NOTE ABOUT ALOE VERA!!!!

Im a vet nurse and the equine vet in my practice said he would not recommend the use of aloe vera in horses as it can cause proud flesh. I know the advice was given by just_nigel for use on mud fever (and these are only small wounds) but thort i would let you all know!
Wouldn't use cling film as it doesn't allow the skin to breathe and you could end up with other skin probs as the skin will sweat. The warm and wet (sweat) environment that the cling film will provide is also a great breeding ground for bacteria/fungi. Either bandage or use equichaps but the skin really needs to dry out in between you soaking the scabs with something like Hibiscrub or Iodine/Pevidine. Apply a barrier cream such as vaseline or sudocrem in between bathing the scabs. hope this helps!!

 

[Maesfen]

Sarah, I honestly believe that leaving mud to dry is far preferable to washing it off when you have something so sensitive as your girl as you will be constantly washing out all the oils from her skin if you do!
Don't let the coronet band get wet (when you wash feet) either, in fact, if you can, use a brush to wash her feet, not a hose so you can place the water exactly. Wrap her up in her Thermalux wraps, they will dry her off quickly and warm her up, then when completely dry, brush mud off gently, even if it is just before you turn her out. Smother whatever cream you choose (you can get zinc &amp; castor oil at any chemist/Superdrug etc and it's very cheap; will probably be on the baby counter as it's what is used for nappy rash so you know it's gentle and quite waterproof! If you can, rub the cream well into the skin but if she's too touchy, just plaster it on for now, then turn her out again. When she comes in, don't wash the cream off, leave it to dry under the wraps; in the morning, smother some more cream on; keep repeating but don't wash!!

The scabs will soon soften and when you rub the cream in you can tease some of them off but don't pull at them; if they're not ready, give them another day. You should find that the ones higher up her legs will heal quicker than those that are prone to be standing in water and mud but still keep using the cream to give them protection. Sometimes you might find the hairs clog together with the scabs and cream but you can tease them out with an old comb though make sure you don't get the comb touching or scratching the skin. You should notice a big difference at the end of the week even if she still has to go out in the mud.
If you go down the clingfilm route (I've never used it but HH swears by it so that's good enough for me!) I think it might be an idea to keep her in the day after as her legs might be quite tender where the scabs have come off which might allow the bacteria back again if she gets wet again too soon - then again, I could be talking through my hat!!
Some years ago I had a show horse here with four white stockings for the winter and it came covered in MF to the hocks and knees due to washing. Following that rigmarole, I had it cleared within the month using both the zinc cream and Protocon (my favourite though, it's brilliant for anything!)

I don't know what her diet is but it might help to add some oil for her skin; healing should be from within so if she has a good coat that will help a lot.

I think nowadays people are too ready to use things like Hibiscrub (yes for cleaning wounds although saline is just as good, but not normal washing) and don't realize how much it dries out the skin so it's very easy for the skin to break down. No doubt I'll get shot down in flames for that but we never seemed to have all these skin problems years ago before all the 'convenience' washes and creams were on the market. Yes, there was mud fever or cracked heels occasionally but it was seen as the lazy way to wash anything off other than manes and tails, so skin did not get too soft for it to find a way in. Protocon was seen as a real breakthrough and miracle cream when it came out about 1970, much like sulphanilmide powder was before that; I still wouldn't be without either of them!

 

[sea_view]

I used aromaheel that was good but a pain to buy as it was only on internet and vet has suggested zinc and castor oil which I'm now using which you can get very cheaply from the chemists.

 

[patchandloopy]

[ QUOTE ]
ooh we used to feed aloe vera to a previous mare we had for sarcoids. also had the aloe gel to put on the sarcoids and the skin around them. Will have to dig it out to see if its ok to use - does this stuff go off???
dont have e45 cream but do have sudocrem. nearly the same??

[/ QUOTE ]

i never believed it before but Aloe Vera is fantastic stuff! Umm im not sure if it does go off? I got mine in the jan sales at Holland and Barrett! ( £5 for a litre bottle!)

I dont see why you cant use Sudocrem in place of E45- as its similar stuff.

I hope your neddy is MF free v.soon!

 

[henryhorn]

I am afraid vet or no I would disagree with him, we have used aloe vera for years and it is better than anything for cooling heat from an area. Perhaps he means putting it neat on an open wound, but as a thing to cool inflamed areas down, it has no equal.
Going back to the mudfever problem, the cream softens the scabs and allows them to slough off easily, so any reasonable cream would do, something like sudocrem or baby cream is fine, just don't use anything scented or body lotion.
You may need to keep the horse in for a while I'm afraid, but if not leave the cream/clingfilm and bandages on (slip your finger down to ensure they aren't too tight) at least 12 hours preferably 24. Once you get to the pink skin stage use plain nappy cream like sudocrem or drapolene straight on the leg, it acts as a barrier to the water and helps them to heal. If the legs keep swelling up and get hot it may be a different antibiotic may be needed.
Another cure given to me by a vet was olbas oil with the antibiotics used to treat mastitis in cows added to the mix. It was red so looked awful but cleared up the rash within days.
We haven't tried the free mud fever sample yet but it sounds a good product.

 

[apkelly01]

Hi,
Have you tried Equicreme http://www.equicreme.com/ My horse has suffered this year as well. I've been washing her with an anti-bacterial/anti-fungal shampoo, sponging with some diluted detol - anti septic for the scabs, drying off the legs as best as I can with 50 billion towels and then using equicreme. The mud fever's completely gone and her hair is starting to grow back. My vet recommended equicreme and I bought it in my local saddlery shop. I was using sudocream before but this stuff is amazing! It wasn't too expensive - €15.00 for the tube.

Hope this helps,
Aileen

 

[_daisy_]

MFH - thanks for all this its great.
any specific reason as to why not to wet the coronet band?
her leg is a bit worse this morning. Quite a bit more swollen and warm so ive called the vet to arrange some antibiotics. Ive given her some bute this morning as shes really feeling it. Little bugger knew something was in her brekkie so she refusewd to eat it till i smothered it in molasses.
she does get oil in her feed. Quite a good dollop of it. She also has build up cubes and some Happy Hoof along with the mud gard from Naf - oh yes and speedibeet.

So ive tried the clingfilm route this morning. Lots of sudocrem on and clingfilm, just tight enough to keep it on, then an eskadron leg wrap and bandaged it up. Hopefully there will be some change with the scabs.
Her skin is quite pink, not red so hopefully thats some kind of good thing for her.
She will be staying in tomorrow and probably Friday as well. Will take her out riding at the weekend so shell probably stay in all weekend as well. She might as well if i can get her out for a bit through the day without getting the legs mucky or wet. Poor little pony has to stay in too to keep Chantin happy but she doesnt mind too much if shes got hay in her belly!

 

[_daisy_]

ive never tried of aromaheel but heard good things about it. Bloody went to the chemist on Monday about 3 times, if only id known that this was going to happen I ciouldve picked up some zinc and castor oil cream. Never mind will have to make another trip when i can. At least ive got sudocrem in stock!!

 

[_daisy_]

cheers HH - ive tried the clingfilm thing with her this morning. Sounds like ive done it right as well. Didnt want to put it on overtight as thought it would make it hell of a lot worse as its swollen as it is.
Will have to get some photos of it tonight to show you how bad it is.
Right the stupid thing is her leg isnt at all red and raw its pink!! just there is lots of swelling and heat. The bits round the scabs are a bit yellowish but not pussy or anything like that.
Have spoke to a vet and have got a course of antibiotics ready for me or mum to pick up tonight when i get back from work.
When ive got rid of all the scabs shall i just keep putting sudocrem on whilst shes in the stable or shall i use something else? Shall i give up with the turnout boots to see how she goes for a little while or shall i keep on with them aswell? Problem is her field is horendous. Really muddy and boggy for pretty much 2/3rds of the field.
Oh not heard of the albas oil and anti biotics for mastitis I couldve tried that after Ebi foaled!! well might get back to you on that one after i see how we get on in the next day or so.

 

[_daisy_]

J_N - yes thats where we used to get the Aloe vera juice from. Good deal when its in the sale.We used to buy it from some aloe vera person who came to do a talk at a yard i was on. Something stupid like £35 for 2l. We didnt realise that we could use it from herbalist stores. Soon cottoned on to the idea and started saving money. Sure I can get some aloe gel from Holland and Barrat too - will have to make a trip this weekend

thanks - I really hope that it clears up soon.

 

[_daisy_]

thanks for this akelly, ill have a look into it and see if i can get some nearby

 

[Basset]

Have you tried udder cream, sounds strange but i used it on one of my mares for MF and it was great also allot cheaper than most stuff.

 

[Maesfen]

[ QUOTE ]
MFH - thanks for all this its great.
any specific reason as to why not to wet the coronet band?



[/ QUOTE ]

I just feel it's very easy for infection to get in when it is forever wet and being rubbed either by you as in drying it off or out in the fields by wet grass/mud/ etc; the dryer you can keep them the better imo so it's great that she can be in for a few days to have a break from the wet!

You certainly are pulling out all the stops for her, hope she's soon better!

 

[_daisy_]

i found a tub of udder cream this morning when i was looking for the sudocrem. will have a look at it tonight

 

[_daisy_]

ahhh i understand. Yes it is good thats shes having a break from the wet and mud for a couple of days - think shell stay in till the weekend at least.
Im really trying for her. I hate to see her when shes like this. On a good day shes normally a grouch, but when shes this bad she can be a complete and utter cow. Shes really bad and starts to play up, pulling faces and looking threatening that shes going to bite but really shes telling me to f*** off out of her stable and leave her alone.
I hate it - would never buy another horse with 4 full white legs - BUT when its summer and dry and theyre gleaming and bright white shes stunning. I hope i can get to the bottom of it and get her to a comfortable place. Hopefully will get to see the YO tonight and get her some hardstanding rather than standing in mud/water all day.

 

[Tempi]

E_C_W - you arent allowed to advertise in signatures, its in the T&amp;Cs....

 

[vicm2509]

Go for the clingfilm, its fantastic. Baron had mudfever for a few weeks and nothing would shift it even though I kept him in 24/7 and tried all the creams. I put emollient cream on (available from the chemist for dermatitis, and it costs peanuts) then clingfilm and bandaged for 12 hrs. Result...all scabs came off, swelling down and one happy horsey. Carried on with iodene spray and emollient cream for 2 days and now its totally clear. He went back out in the field yesterday plastered with the cream (which also provides a waterproof barrier) and leg guard oil.

I know it will come back as he is really prone to it, but next time i will do the cling film trick right away.

 

[_daisy_]

hiya V,
yes i started the clingfilm thing this morning - i couldnt remember where i saw the post about using an emolient cream as ive got some of that at home for my arms (long story) but didnt know if there was a specific emolient to use.
So ive started using sudocrem with the clingfilm to see how we get on with that. Hopefully the few scabs that are on ehr legs will come off tonight when i clean the cream off her legs.
I think shes got an infection in her leg though with the amount of swelling and heat in it so got a course of anitbiotics waiting for me to collect at the vet unit when i leave work. So hopefully now ive got some great tips of people mix that with the bute and antibiotics we should get somewhere and hopefully shift the dam mudfever soon and I then should have a happy horse (well as happy as she can be!)

 

[debonhorse]

totally agree with everything MFH is saying except two little words extra 'udder cream ' you pay the same for a big tub as you do for a small sudocrem, and its easy to slop on thick if the horse dosnt like the fuss. good luck.