Its like standing on a precipice

[Birker2020]

This is how I explained how I felt about horse ownership to my friend last night.

She's an equine professional and an incredibly talented one so knows just what I mean as she sees the heartache with clients everyday, the frustrations and sadness well as going through her own heartbreak with her horses, luck with horses has always alluded her too.

One horse on our yard has been on boxrest on our yard for 3 months. His owners have been incredibly diligent in his rehab and are at the stage where he's out in a postage stamp of a paddock every night for an hour. They sit on a chair watching him terrified he will hurt himself. I'm scared to sneeze when he's in the vicinity, i can feel the tension in the air. They are besides themselves with worry and stress, all the box rest, ridden work and now turnout gradually reducing the sedalin whilst increasing the turnout hoping and praying he's going to come good and he's not going to do anything silly to put back all that work and effort. I've been there so many times in the past, I feel I'm living it with them, so hoping it works out for them.

Another livery last night received the sad news their horse has a big hole in its tendon. Vet had seen it trotted up, lunged, etc and apart from minor swelling and heat said nothing major. Son had been terribly worried bless him, wasn't that long ago he'd been consoling me about my horses problems, i was so, so hoping it would turn out okay for his horse, felt its leg the other night when he'd asked and could feel it was warm and swollen. He insisted on it being scanned and so yesterday despite the vets reservations that the horse wasn't that bad it was scanned. Their world has come crashing down. I'm so very upset for them.

Another livery whose horse had splenic entrapment, spent the night in her car outside her horses stable, worry etched all over her face. Vet came out numerous days in a row, like they'd done with my Bailey all those years ago. It was a desperately worrying time for her, he was tubed three times and it was touch and go at one point. He's ok now, but in the back of her mind she'll never forget.

Someone else with a fabby event horse at a very high level that's having issues whilst out competing. Had everything possible thrown at it, from x-rays, bone scans, acupuncture, saddle checks, even psychic intervention but no joy. Won't even do a dressage test somedays, just point blank refuses . Feel incredibly sad for the owner who has put everything penny into investigative procedures to get to the bottom of its issues without joy. Heartbreaking for another reason, the not knowing why. In some ways worse than getting a diagnosis however poor.

I'm living with my own version of stress, desperately hoping my horse comes right, trying to fight off the feeling of gloom (call it a reality) that my horse is destined for a life of constant assessing, monitoring, whilst hoping and praying for periods of soundness. Waiting for the huge dissapointment, the inevitable 'thing' to happen. The crushing blow.

It really is like standing on a precipice and any moment you're going to fall. We all worry so much about our own horses, but equally we worry and 'feel' the hurt of others and know how it feels to be given bad news, the pain is palpable, it really is. It's not just the time or financial burden of all the issues, its the mental trauma too. How it can eat you up and spit you out. The desperation, even plea bargaining to the 'powers that be' in an effort to ward off more pain and dissapointment.

One second you can be on cloud nine and the next .... falling. How quickly it can all be snatched away.

My witterings and musings on another sleepness night, not just worrying about my own horse, but those of others who are dear to me. Not meant to be a depressing gloomy post just reality. For a lot of people right now.

So, for everyone that feels like me I wish you all the luck. I hope you all get your happy ending, I really do.

 

[Red-1]

I do understand that feeling. I yearn for those heady days of childhood, where we rode for far too long on ground that was far too hard - simply because we hadn't yet had that pain and knew no better. It is that heady feeling I yearn for, not actually riding on unsuitable ground!

It is also why I feel a bit guilty that Rigsby doesn't really have a job. I am out riding my baby horse daily, Rigs gets put on the back burner. We did dressage two days ago, took baby horse, Rigs came moseying over to see if he was coming. He actually got a higher score the one time that he went. It is just that he is aged and I am not training him up for anything, so I concentrate on the other. The guilt is because I know what a gift it is to have a happy and sound horse, it seems a waste not to be out enjoying him!

I do think that the way we ride contributes, many days on arenas whereas before we would go out hacking for hours. 4 hours wasn't that unusual, with a pub stop for lunch half way. Varied terrain, hill work... I think it is much better. I still hack, but with modern traffic not as far or often as I once did. I also think that back in the day we would be more inclined to turn away for a few months. I was at a bog yard and if that happened, we would all shuffle round horses so everyone had something to ride. Easily done when you knew your horse would be out in a familiar group with the other rider, having a nice pub ride. I'd not be so inclined to share on the arena, TBH.

Good luck with your boy.

 

[Birker2020]

I do understand that feeling. I yearn for those heady days of childhood, where we rode for far too long on ground that was far too hard - simply because we hadn't yet had that pain and knew no better. It is that heady feeling I yearn for, not actually riding on unsuitable ground!

I do think that the way we ride contributes, many days on arenas whereas before we would go out hacking for hours. 4 hours wasn't that unusual, with a pub stop for lunch half way.

Good luck with your boy.

Yes those heady days when you didn't know or care what an outline was, much less how to put your horse in one (who really cared what their horses looked like in those days??). And I used to also go on the long four hour hacks, mostly on my own because that's how I liked it. I agree with the arena's too, I think they cause a huge amount of issues, horses simply aren't designed for that kind of surface.

New research now into surfaces and how detrimental rubber flooring can be on a horse walker, who'd have thought it?

Thanks for your sentiments about Lari/Boo. He is lovely, last night we did raised poles and I caught him watching me lift my feet, so he and I ended up in perfect tandem doing the line of poles together again and again. When I lifted mine he lifted his.

He has learnt a new trick where he will voluntarily stick his tongue out like a lizard and wait for a polo to be deposited on it. Then after a few seconds of unhurried contemplation he will retract his tongue with the pole 'glued' into place. It is a sight to behold.

I can't see the spanner shape now, all I see is the outline of a white ghost with its arms up on his face. Hence Lari/Boo.
I hope I can see my friend tonight and let him know how much we all want to help him and I am going to offer him use of my Icevibe boots as I think they will really help.

 

[sbloom]

It's part of the reason I don't have my own. However, the more I see on integrative/holistic approaches the more I am swayed away from getting lost in vet diagnoses, box rest etc. It's not to say that vets aren't crucial, and a good one is worth their weight, but we need more than vets. Helping horses to lower their "boiling point" - environmental, physical, emotional, training challenges that lump on top of each other until the horse has no head room until it reaches 100 degrees and physically or behaviourally breaks. We don't have all the answers yet but addressing these and allowing the horse to be more horse has to be part of prevention and rehab.

 

[Birker2020]

It's part of the reason I don't have my own. However, the more I see on integrative/holistic approaches the more I am swayed away from getting lost in vet diagnoses, box rest etc. It's not to say that vets aren't crucial, and a good one is worth their weight, but we need more than vets. Helping horses to lower their "boiling point" - environmental, physical, emotional, training challenges that lump on top of each other until the horse has no head room until it reaches 100 degrees and physically or behaviourally breaks. We don't have all the answers yet but addressing these and allowing the horse to be more horse has to be part of prevention and rehab.

Yes having this discussion with my lovely YO last night.
She came to the conclusion that horses had a lot more freedom in the 'olden days', they were out in huge fields 24/7 - you dragged them in for a ride and then chucked them out again after, they didn't work on surfaces, they were properly worked, you didn't have fancy feeds, horses were allowed to be horses and interacted in a different way.

I think a lot of it is these foreign bred lines, I can talk having a Holstein! But I think the home bred type horses were stronger. Trying to think what the 'type' used to be at the riding school I learnt/worked at when I was a teen. I think they were mainly Welsh or Welsh x Fells, Welsh x Shires and Shire x TB's from distant memory.

Or was it that we didn't know as much, we certainly didn't when it came to the art of saddle fitting, and I'm very much aware it is an art?
Same with dentist/physio and all the diagnostic stuff we have now.

It was a different/better world.

Just reading on here how many horses go wrong - its totally staggering.
I bet if you did a poll of 100 random horses there would be over 60 or 70% that had lameness or other orthaepedic issues.

 

[RachelFerd]

Yes having this discussion with my lovely YO last night.
She came to the conclusion that horses had a lot more freedom in the 'olden days', they were out in huge fields 24/7 - you dragged them in for a ride and then chucked them out again after, they didn't work on surfaces, they were properly worked, you didn't have fancy feeds, horses were allowed to be horses and interacted in a different way.

I think a lot of it is these foreign bred lines, I can talk having a Holstein! But I think the home bred type horses were stronger. Trying to think what the 'type' used to be at the riding school I learnt/worked at when I was a teen. I think they were mainly Welsh or Welsh x Fells, Welsh x Shires and Shire x TB's from distant memory.

Or was it that we didn't know as much, we certainly didn't when it came to the art of saddle fitting, and I'm very much aware it is an art?
Same with dentist/physio and all the diagnostic stuff we have now.

It was a different/better world.

Just reading on here how many horses go wrong - its totally staggering.
I bet if you did a poll of 100 random horses there would be over 60 or 70% that had lameness or other orthaepedic issues.

It definitely wasn't a better world. It was a more naive/ignorant world. Feeding, saddle fitting, dentistry, physio and veterinary diagnostics have all come a HUGE way. We know far more now about how to best look after the health of our horses.

BUT... I feel that somewhere in the process a lot of people forgot, or didn't learn, how to train them. We've collectively got a lot better at training dressage work, but in amongst that I think a lot of people forgot how to prioritise having a happy horse that is willing to go where asked and behave in a range of environments.

But that doesn't mean that all the improvements on everything else aren't positives.

 

[sbloom]

We've become too specialist, we use fewer surfaces, fewer disciplines, horses are bred to be more elastic...lots of mistakes on the way to where we are now made by horsey kind.

 

[Xmasha]

Im sorry you are having a tough time, and hope he does come back sound enough for you to have some fun.

My mare is going through some diagnostics at the minute, and as soon as i think we are getting somewhere something else goes wrong. Last week vet checked her out and said she was all good, sounder than most horses he sees out and about. She clearly thought we cant have any of that nonsense and went and had a hooley in the field and kicked herself. So has been off on her right hind . I think shes looking better today.... i will ask the vet to write things down or tell me where she cant hear him in future

I do think we need to look at our relationship with the horse. We shouldnt be pinning our happiness on the soundness of our horses. I know its hard, ive been there. But after years of horse ownership ive learnt that horses break. ive also learnt to enjoy just being with them , watching them and loving them for who they are and not what we can do while we are on their back. Just as you have described the joy of Lari asking for a polo, and how he watches when you pick your feet up going over a pole. To me, thats so much more rewarding than competing for a red frilly.
In these crazy times, i genuinely feel we should all look for the positives in our lives.

 

[Birker2020]

Im sorry you are having a tough time, and hope he does come back sound enough for you to have some fun.

My mare is going through some diagnostics at the minute, and as soon as i think we are getting somewhere something else goes wrong. Last week vet checked her out and said she was all good, sounder than most horses he sees out and about. She clearly thought we cant have any of that nonsense and went and had a hooley in the field and kicked herself. So has been off on her right hind . I think shes looking better today.... i will ask the vet to write things down or tell me where she cant hear him in future

I do think we need to look at our relationship with the horse. We shouldnt be pinning our happiness on the soundness of our horses. I know its hard, ive been there. But after years of horse ownership ive learnt that horses break. ive also learnt to enjoy just being with them , watching them and loving them for who they are and not what we can do while we are on their back. Just as you have described the joy of Lari asking for a polo, and how he watches when you pick your feet up going over a pole. To me, thats so much more rewarding than competing for a red frilly.
In these crazy times, i genuinely feel we should all look for the positives in our lives.

You know what, I've never thought of it that way, I really haven't. Or at least not for a very long time.

Owning horses is a huge privilege in my eyes and I try and take what joy i can from the situation I'm in, but I totally agree with your sentence "we shouldn't be pinning our happiness on the soundness of our horses". You are right, but its so hard not too when you have had years of not being able to ride. I think you can become totally absorbed in the "in he/isn't he lame" thing. All I can see in my eyes is going around my much loved SJ venue jumping in the sun, and that's my goal.

But even going up the yard and being first to switch on the lights and having 30 horses whinny a welcome to you is just amazing in itself.

I hope your mare is okay.

 

[Xmasha]

You know what, I've never thought of it that way, I really haven't. Or at least not for a very long time.

Owning horses is a huge privilege in my eyes and I try and take what joy i can from the situation I'm in, but I totally agree with your sentence "we shouldn't be pinning our happiness on the soundness of our horses". You are right, but its so hard not too when you have had years of not being able to ride. I think you can become totally absorbed in the "in he/isn't he lame" thing. All I can see in my eyes is going around my much loved SJ venue jumping in the sun, and that's my goal.

But even going up the yard and being first to switch on the lights and having 30 horses whinny a welcome to you is just amazing in itself.

I hope your mare is okay.

i just look back to my childhood. My parents couldnt afford to buy me a pony. I used to love to just being around them, the smell everything. I worked in a riding school all week just for one free lesson. (TBH, i enjoyed the day to day the lesson was just a bonus)
So whether im riding or not, im living my dream.

 

[milliepops]

I do think we need to look at our relationship with the horse. We shouldnt be pinning our happiness on the soundness of our horses. I know its hard, ive been there. But after years of horse ownership ive learnt that horses break. ive also learnt to enjoy just being with them , watching them and loving them for who they are and not what we can do while we are on their back. Just as you have described the joy of Lari asking for a polo, and how he watches when you pick your feet up going over a pole. To me, thats so much more rewarding than competing for a red frilly.
In these crazy times, i genuinely feel we should all look for the positives in our lives.

a lot of truth in this.
I have a natural split with my non-ridden horses being at home in the field, and the working ones at livery 20 mins away.
With the non ridden ones I have a totally different relationship,i just love hanging out with them and there are no expectations or requirements other than "try to stay where you are meant to be" it's pretty stress free and i love just going up to have some pony cuddles.

The ridden ones.. there's always some underlying tension in my mind about Things Going Wrong. Like most, i've had my fair share of injured/sick horses and the disappointment that brings. it's hard to put that to one side.

I realised a while back that my riding performance also has a direct impact on my confidence in other areas of my life. i don't have time for a lot else other than horses so it's not like i can use another activity or passtime to prop that up when things are going badly. Not sure what to do with that really

 

[Birker2020]

I realised a while back that my riding performance also has a direct impact on my confidence in other areas of my life. i don't have time for a lot else other than horses so it's not like i can use another activity or passtime to prop that up when things are going badly. Not sure what to do with that really

Strangely that was something I mentioned to a friend last night (the one with the box rested horse) talking about all the upset and how we both felt for the person with the tendon issue like it was our own pain.

I said I thank God that I have another interest (really got back into my swimming again, three days in a row of 22 lengths) and that I love coming to the gym at the weekend and just putting on The Trip spin session in the spin studio (always have it to myself weekend afternoons) and just chilling out, if I didn't have that I'd have gone potty by now.

Its something I think I would do more of if it doesn't work out with the beast. At least its an option, not much can go wrong with swimming (other than a leak) or spin bikes

 

[MystieMoo]

I do understand that feeling. I yearn for those heady days of childhood, where we rode for far too long on ground that was far too hard - simply because we hadn't yet had that pain and knew no better. It is that heady feeling I yearn for, not actually riding on unsuitable ground!

It is also why I feel a bit guilty that Rigsby doesn't really have a job. I am out riding my baby horse daily, Rigs gets put on the back burner. We did dressage two days ago, took baby horse, Rigs came moseying over to see if he was coming. He actually got a higher score the one time that he went. It is just that he is aged and I am not training him up for anything, so I concentrate on the other. The guilt is because I know what a gift it is to have a happy and sound horse, it seems a waste not to be out enjoying him!

I do think that the way we ride contributes, many days on arenas whereas before we would go out hacking for hours. 4 hours wasn't that unusual, with a pub stop for lunch half way. Varied terrain, hill work... I think it is much better. I still hack, but with modern traffic not as far or often as I once did. I also think that back in the day we would be more inclined to turn away for a few months. I was at a bog yard and if that happened, we would all shuffle round horses so everyone had something to ride. Easily done when you knew your horse would be out in a familiar group with the other rider, having a nice pub ride. I'd not be so inclined to share on the arena, TBH.

Good luck with your boy.

Absolutely agree with this. It's almost 46 years since I learned to ride and almost 43 years since starting to have my own.

The first was a scruffy Thelwell sort in his 20s who I sat on at 8 years old and just pointed in the right direction. Cavasson noseband, rubber Pelham because he was strong. Followed by a M&M Welsh B, a show pony and at Hanovarian X TB that scared me half to death so I decided to pursue boys and give up the horses at 16.

But there was no arena. Fields or a muddy paddock to ride in. Wellies, Jeans and some Godawful puffy coat from C&A, no Le Mieux etc. Hacking for hours on roads to get to common land or an old airfield to ride on - we could be gone for 4 - 6 hours with a picnic, numnah with zippy pockets for snacks. Horses fed on straights. Farrier or home remedies before vets called. No matchy matchy. Straw beds unless you were rich and could afford shavings .... etc, etc.

We know so much more now, I guess. So yes, like the OP, I live in constant worry over my daughter's horse that just wasn't present back in the day. I worry for other horse owners. Always terrified something will go wrong. It's horrible and sucks the joy out of it all if you let it. And for very many of us, vet bills would be crippling and we only have that one horse.

If anyone knows of any cures for this other than a gin ... or several ... please let me know, especially before my daughter is off eventing again at the end of next month! ?

 

[McGrools]

I realised a while back that my riding performance also has a direct impact on my confidence in other areas of my life. i don't have time for a lot else other than horses so it's not like i can use another activity or passtime to prop that up when things are going badly. Not sure what to do with that really

yes i am the same, my mood is very dependant on how my horses are, how my last ride went etc. We invest so much of our emotions into them and our hopes and dreams that it isnt surprising we are felled when things go awry.
I guess its the same thing that keeps is addicted to them. Its pure passion and a deep deep emotional pull.

 

[McGrools]

We've become too specialist, we use fewer surfaces, fewer disciplines, horses are bred to be more elastic...lots of mistakes on the way to where we are now made by horsey kind.

I think some livery yard set ups are a big part of the problem. Normalising too little turnout and individual turnout. Crap hacking so that folk are using arenas more and more. Yards are deemed as desirable if they have the arena facilities, but its the large herd turnout for me that should be the normality

 

[Wishfilly]

I think some livery yard set ups are a big part of the problem. Normalising too little turnout and individual turnout. Crap hacking so that folk are using arenas more and more. Yards are deemed as desirable if they have the arena facilities, but its the large herd turnout for me that should be the normality

I get this, but large herd turnout when lots of horses are coming and going carries its own risks too. In some cases, each time a new horse joins, the herd has to rearrange the pecking order, and there's a lot of potential for injury.

I do think turnout is important though- I don't think being stuck in over winter for weeks on end does horses any good. And I agree that bad hacking leading to more arena use etc doesn't help either.

I do also think we need to consider breeding for soundness though- I know so many people who will have a foal from an unsound mare (not just where there's been a one off injury) and that surely can't help?

 

[scats]

For me the issue is that I don’t have horses to be pets. I have a houseful of animals who are pets. I have horses to ride, first and foremost. That’s not to say that if they are unrideable, they go, but I don’t have the space, time or money to collect waifs and strays or house those who have broken.
I’ve had a lot go wrong over the years, for all sorts of weird and wonderful reasons. My mental health is very wrapped up in the horses, and that does worry me. That’s not to say that I don’t have a lot of other things going on to amuse me, but simply that it is such a big investment, both time and money wise, that it’s difficult for it not to have an impact when things go wrong.

Last year, for a variety of reasons, I re-evaluated my priorities with Millie. As a result I am having far more fun (as is she!) and I don’t have that underlying concern that I might break her from pushing her too much. Sure, she could break at any point, that’s what horses do, but I never wanted that shadow of a doubt that I might be putting her body (or brain) under a strain that she couldn’t take.

 

[McGrools]

I get this, but large herd turnout when lots of horses are coming and going carries its own risks too. In some cases, each time a new horse joins, the herd has to rearrange the pecking order, and there's a lot of potential for injury.

I do think turnout is important though- I don't think being stuck in over winter for weeks on end does horses any good. And I agree that bad hacking leading to more arena use etc doesn't help either.

I do also think we need to consider breeding for soundness though- I know so many people who will have a foal from an unsound mare (not just where there's been a one off injury) and that surely can't help?

its more the acreage i think that is key. If the horses have plenty space there is very rarely kick injuries in my experience. I’m talking 10 acre plus fields. Horses should be on the move and have loads of room to run and roam. I hate seeing them confined to little paddocks where 10 strides of canter would see them at the end to end.
the more we confine them then surely the weaker their tendons, ligaments and hooves are getting?

 

[milliepops]

yes i am the same, my mood is very dependant on how my horses are, how my last ride went etc. We invest so much of our emotions into them and our hopes and dreams that it isnt surprising we are felled when things go awry.
I guess its the same thing that keeps is addicted to them. Its pure passion and a deep deep emotional pull.

Yep absolutely.
I can have a terrible day at work, or something else in my personal life can go wrong.. but it's if i feel like i've ballsed up riding that really knocks the stuffing out of me. if i feel like I'm doing a bad job with my horses then it affects everything else I'm doing. i think it's because my horses are what gives me fulfillment in life, they are the thing that gives it all meaning. it's a bloody rollercoaster, that's for sure!

I have other interests but can't pursue them with any particular seriousness because with 7 nags to sort out, time is limited!

 

[tallyho!]

Such a sad post ... where did it all go wrong?

It sounds like we all have that shared memory of a simpler life where the only horses around were cobs and ponies. The odd Arab or Icelandic the posh lady had up the road... it's hard to pin down but I think the marketing of bagged feeds and the advent of magazines somewhere around the 80's had a lot to do with it.

Perhaps a step back in time to a simple era would do us all good - give ourselves and our horses a break. I hope everyone's horse comes back sound soon and everyone can have a happy summer - and can take the pressure off maybe, just for this year?

 

[McGrools]

Yep absolutely.
I can have a terrible day at work, or something else in my personal life can go wrong.. but it's if i feel like i've ballsed up riding that really knocks the stuffing out of me. if i feel like I'm doing a bad job with my horses then it affects everything else I'm doing. i think it's because my horses are what gives me fulfillment in life, they are the thing that gives it all meaning. it's a bloody rollercoaster, that's for sure!

!

Rollercoaster 100%. I just make sure i appreciate the ups fully when they come along! ?

 

[DizzyDoughnut]

I have managed to be very lucky with all of mine (frantically touches wood) The two I lost lived perfectly healthy happy lives till old age ailments crept up, I didn't realise how stressed I was with it till I had my old guy PTS, it was sad but it was like a weight had been lifted and a huge relief overall. Looking back there was about 5 years of trying to manage his PPID and stop him getting laminitis, panicking that there might be to much grass, to cold, would today be a good a day etc. It still seems like a bit of a novelty to just go down and not have to worry what you'll find.

I think it helps that all mine are natives and not quite so prone to breaking too easily. They also stay out as much as possible and the only feed they get is a tiny handful of the lowest calorie chaff, mainly so they see coming in as a good thing and come and greet me at the gate rather than me having to walk round the field in the dark looking for them. They are pretty much kept as simply and basically as possible and seem very happy. My biggest issue is restricting grass but not turnout or movement.
I also don't have big ambitions, my youngsters goal is to become a fun but safe pony I can take anywhere and spend hours exploring the countryside on, the oldies job is just to keep the young one company, going on in hand walks and enjoying himself.
If something went wrong and I couldn't ride the youngster for some reason of course it would be disappointing but then we could hopefully just explore on foot together and do in hand stuff. Luckily I get so much pleasure just being with them, the fact that an animal that could easily tell me to get lost and overpower me chooses to stay with me and enthusiastically does what I ask amazes me, every day I feel so lucky and remember being that child that was so desperate for a pony and look at my 2 happily eating and I could burst with pride and sheer happiness that even if neither of them ever do a days work I've still achieved my childhood dream.

 

[SEL]

I had a lot less worries when I was younger because I didn't know enough to worry! I could tell when a horse was head bopping lame obviously but just wasn't clued in to more subtle signs. Ignorance is bliss.

I'm lucky I can afford to keep my wonky ones but I really, really miss riding and am realising that I have zero confidence in finding myself something sound to buy.

 

[shortstuff99]

My horses are like family so I don't mind whether they are useless or not, which I think leads to less stress. I also don't have too much financial pressure or family commitments which I think really helps.

 

[sbloom]

its more the acreage i think that is key. If the horses have plenty space there is very rarely kick injuries in my experience. I’m talking 10 acre plus fields. Horses should be on the move and have loads of room to run and roam. I hate seeing them confined to little paddocks where 10 strides of canter would see them at the end to end.
the more we confine them then surely the weaker their tendons, ligaments and hooves are getting?

Track systems are likely to be a large part of the answer. They seem to have got to grips with safe introduction policies.

Did individual turnout come first, or did people buying "nicer" horses and not being able to face the odd field injury come first? There is a piece of research that shows that the smaller the turnout area the greater the risk of injury - they don't need other horses to injure themselves but somehow owners prefer this, it feels like no-one's fault because it's the way they're kept that's at issue.

 

[Birker2020]

Track systems are likely to be a large part of the answer. They seem to have got to grips with safe introduction policies.

Did individual turnout come first, or did people buying "nicer" horses and not being able to face the odd field injury come first? There is a piece of research that shows that the smaller the turnout area the greater the risk of injury - they don't need other horses to injure themselves but somehow owners prefer this, it feels like no-one's fault because it's the way they're kept that's at issue.

I think that a lot of people prefer individual turnout these days to be honest and so a lot of yards cater for this whereas back in the early/mid 90's most horses were in a herd situation, mostly mares and geldings split. There is good and bad with everything.

Having one gateway in/out and a crowd of 30 horses all wanting to come out at the same time in the winter and the ground being so poached that horses lower down in the pecking order can't get out of the way from a flying hoof or a bite. Then there's the danger to the handler, trying to extract a horse from the melee whilst sinking in the mud in their wellies, makes for a very dangerous situation.

There is a big field (probably 6 acres) on our yard that has about 6 horses on and you can join that if you want to but to be honest I would hate it if my horse ended up kicking something else. And of course the risk during the pecking order of getting injured. My fears are justifiable, having lost a 6 year old as a result of a hairline fracture from a kick, and my previous horse having suffered a really nasty kick which caused a bone fragment.

I also like to be able to strip graze according to my horses needs so I have more control having an individual paddock and I take pride in keeping it poo picked and weeds pulled and the water bucket scrubbed out every few days.

I think horses will run around whether they are in a big field or small but agree there is probably more stability in a herd once established.

 

[MystieMoo]

I get this, but large herd turnout when lots of horses are coming and going carries its own risks too. In some cases, each time a new horse joins, the herd has to rearrange the pecking order, and there's a lot of potential for injury.

I do think turnout is important though- I don't think being stuck in over winter for weeks on end does horses any good. And I agree that bad hacking leading to more arena use etc doesn't help either.

I do also think we need to consider breeding for soundness though- I know so many people who will have a foal from an unsound mare (not just where there's been a one off injury) and that surely can't help?

Although I'd like large herd turnout, I prefer single horse turnout for the reasons you mentioned. I'm sure there is more turnover of liveries these days so more potential for the coming and going of new horses - I was at the same yard from the age of 5 to 16 and remember hardly anyone leaving or arriving, same people year in year out. Seems to be lots more movement these days, well in our area certainly.

 

[Birker2020]

I think some livery yard set ups are a big part of the problem. Normalising too little turnout and individual turnout. Crap hacking so that folk are using arenas more and more. Yards are deemed as desirable if they have the arena facilities, but its the large herd turnout for me that should be the normality

When I got the phone call from the vet in Cheshire to confirm that Lari had passed his vetting, one of the things he said to me was that during the winter he got so many calls from clients whose horses had got lameness issues because people used the menage much more in the winter than the summer. So he strongly advised that I didn't go in there more than a couple of times a week.

 

[milliepops]

Although I'd like large herd turnout, I prefer single horse turnout for the reasons you mentioned. I'm sure there is more turnover of liveries these days so more potential for the coming and going of new horses - I was at the same yard from the age of 5 to 16 and remember hardly anyone leaving or arriving, same people year in year out. Seems to be lots more movement these days, well in our area certainly.

yeah agreed. I stayed on the same yard for 14 years and there were only a few long term liveries mixed in with the YOs horses - herd turnout worked well in that situation . The turnover in yards I've been on since has been way too high to be able to deal with the introductions properly and with individual TO you can also cram more in on the same acreage - i have 5 in together on 5 acres now which feels comfortable but that same area would probably take 8 or 10 horses in small paddocks based on what I've been given on yards over the last decade or so.

 

[sbloom]

But the only research done in this area shows that injuries are more common in individual turnout unless the paddocks are huge. So it's just that it's another horse that injures yours, rather than them injuring themselves, but those injuries happen less often. I've had a horse PTS because he was attacked by another horse, but I understand the data, and my next horse was on the largest most mixed turnout possible EXCEPT at the first yard where my other horse had been attacked, because they had a terrible introduction policy, the basic cause of the incident.

Worth thinking about....and track systems solve many of the objections coming up, for instance strip grazing not required.