(it's long but please help!) Rearing both in hand and under saddle?!

AprilBlossom

AprilBlossom

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So I took on an ex gypsy trotter as a little project about 6 weeks ago, not been ridden for over a year and hadn’t really done anything when he was, and he’s started to muscle up nicely from lunging and a bit of hacking (all the ridden work just in walk until I’ve got a girth that does up a bit tighter as the current one’s gotten just that bit looser than i’m entirely comfortable with of late!). I feed him a scoop of pasture mix on days that he is worked; before I took him on he was just at grass , so I don’t think i’m over feeding him, but all of a sudden he’s started rearing! The thing is, he’s not anxious or bargy when he does it – I had him on a long lead rein just mooching in from the field, was a bit ahead of him as he was plodding along as usual, turned around and he was vertical!! So he got a prompt telling off, returned to earth and we carried on calmly as if nothing had happened! He then later on tried to do it again, and so I circled him around me until he settled (which wasn’t long) and again we carried on.

His stable manners are fine, not perfect as he will paw at things and walk around a bit if not tied up tightly (cross tying would be ideal but I don’t have anywhere I could cross tie him really) and there’s really no malice in him, but it’s a bit concerning the way he can suddenly just go up with very little warning. He’s very well balanced on his back legs, doesn’t need any bunny hops before going straight up or anything, just seems to be a ‘look at what i can do’. I did try putting his leadrope around his nose so if he did go up, the pressure would bring him back down immediately, and that’s always worked with my cobby types who have been strong. Not this little princess however – he got very upset at it merely being on his nose and immediately put on experiencing breathing difficulties, and i’m sure in his commitment to it, would have collapsed had I not removed the rope. I know him as a character fairly well, so I can assure you all I had done nothing untoward to him, he was just being a pansy. What can I do in-hand to solve this, short of a chiffney?

He’s also reared up a couple of times under saddle, although not with me on board but with a friend who is a stone or two lighter than I am, and she sat them and carried on and he was fine – just an evasion thing, or should I be having various parts of him examined, and if so, which parts?

Thanks for reading this rant/plea for help!
 
Hi
I would - if you haven't already - get his back and teeth checked
If he has the all clear i would not try to stop him rearing by restraining him - i would push him forward.
If he tries to rear send him forward until you are ready to let him stop...this should get him thinking that rearing means more work!
It stopped several of mine doing it!
Let us know how you get on! :)
 
Actually thats quite weird this is exactly what my ex gyspy trotting mare does!

Very controlled and not at you nastily at all just up zorro type rears and she holds then for quite a while! Only inhand though, and only very occasionally!

Be intererested to hear what people say .. :)
 
I would def get his back, teeth etc checked first to rule out any problems, if thats all ok it could be he does not understand whats being asked or as you say an evasion. As for the leading bit am a huge fan of chiffneys if they rear in hand. I used to have no time for them untill my old boy who was nearing on 17.2 and was a total nightmare when I bought him used to rear in hand and box out at whoever was leading. I tried everything but nothing worked. YO told me he was going to kill someone and she would not have him on her yard without a chiffney until he could be controlled. She let me use one of hers and showed me how to correctly fit and use it. He had it on 6 months and he was a completely different horse to handle and for the rest of the time I had him till he was PTS he was led only in head collar.
 
I've always had a sting of sturdy, problem free cobs before this so never had to get a back person out - what should I be asking and how much is it likely to cost? I don't want to get ripped off! Nor have I ever been the one to get teeth done, so again, what should I ask, how much should it cost? Wow, I sound like a right plank, sorry all! And thanks for your helpful responses :)
 
He sounds like a horse i used to ride, she didn't want to work so she started rearing with her previous rider, who got off (or fell off!!!) and put her back in the stable so she learned how to get out of doing something and started to do it in-hand, when i got her it was just a case of riding her through it ( or getting back on!!) and not getting off untill she was good. I have also seen on a monty roberts demo, him using blinkers, like the ones in racing, on a horse who was a really bad rearer, the idea is that the horse can't see up. a horse wont go in a direction it can't see, and it worked after 5 mins. I have done it myself on a youngster to worked with and he hasn't reared since.
 
I dont mean to sound harsh but whether you have a cob or a really expensive horse they still need there teeth and ideally backs checked. It depends on what area your in for a back person and dentist maybe someone in your area can recommend one for you.
 
annaellie said:
I dont mean to sound harsh but whether you have a cob or a really expensive horse they still need there teeth and ideally backs checked. It depends on what area your in for a back person and dentist maybe someone in your area can recommend one for you.
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Sorry, I make the common error a lot of people do that I assume everyone know my situation lol - my old cobs have all been shares and/or on yards where the highly knowledgable YO would have them in a teeth routine as part of full livery and with them being so sturdy and hardy, i've never had need to get anything done out of the ordinary routine, which I was lucky was sorted for me either by YO or owner who I shared with. I'm now at a DIY place and thought i'd find out a bit about what I should have checked straight away and what's not absolutely neccessary - I don't wanna get fleeced!

PS Just because it's a cob doesn't mean it's not really expensive :p
 
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If he's a gypsy trotter then you don't know what sort of treatment he's had - I've got a gypsy cob who in the past started going up in the air and to be honest you don't know how people have treated the horse in the past.

Firstly, I would (as has been said) get a thorough get of teeth and back, coz if you put him in a Chifney and there is any discomfort you're only gonna make matters a whole lot worst.

Instead of a Chifney, I'd be inclined to try a pressure halter (but you might need to get someone who knows how they should be used to show you coz again you could do more harm then good). The pressure isn't a punishment as such, its merely a way of trying to re-educate the horse that the way to "escape" pressure is to comply, and like I say you need to get someone to work with you perhaps.

But I would say that the rearing if its happening both in hand and under saddle is an indication of discomfort somewhere. If he's been used for "trotting" he's very probably totally unbalanced and on the forehand, very common with driving horses, and when he's asked to go under saddle and collect himself, I would think that's probably very uncomfortable for him, which is why he's rearing as a way of saying owch this hurts!

Personally I would be inclined (when you've checked teeth/back etc) to go back a step and just work him on the ground; he's probably not sure about the groundrules and also unsure of what's expected of him so you might need to treat him like a youngster for a while. Then you might progress on to lunge work and/or longreining, and work it up to going under saddle, but slowly all the time.

I'm sure he'll be a super horse in the long term (mine is!!) but I think (at risk of being labelled "racist" here!!!) that any horse that's had shall we say a "noncomformist" background may come with issues!!!! Good luck.
 
AprilBlossom said:
Sorry, I make the common error a lot of people do that I assume everyone know my situation lol - my old cobs have all been shares and/or on yards where the highly knowledgable YO would have them in a teeth routine as part of full livery and with them being so sturdy and hardy, i've never had need to get anything done out of the ordinary routine, which I was lucky was sorted for me either by YO or owner who I shared with. I'm now at a DIY place and thought i'd find out a bit about what I should have checked straight away and what's not absolutely neccessary - I don't wanna get fleeced!

PS Just because it's a cob doesn't mean it's not really expensive

:p
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I think I just put my foot in it with all the cob owners out there I did not mean that in the way it sounded sorry

I thought u ment that you had never had your horses teeth checked etc I get you now Yes just ask either on here or on the yard your on for some recommendations on back and dentists.
 
Interesting, I had a gypsy trained cob mare who did the same thing. She was also a head shy and funny about her mouth despite having her teeth checked and had no back issues. If she didn't want to do something she would just very calmly lift up her front end and 'stand up' for a few moments then drop down and look at me as if to say 'Well, I'm not going to do it!'

With her being whip shy and not liking being pulled on at ALL reins or leadrope I found that the only thing I could do which wouldn't upset her and make the situation worse (she didn't like being shouted at either, got upset and nervous) was to completely ignore it and ask again gently after she had come down. After a few tries I'd get a heaved sigh and an 'Oh well if you are THAT persistant' and she would be fine.

It was odd because normaly I am terrified by rearers but she was so controlled it didn't bother me much. After a while she gave up on the idea because I didn't give up asking nicely when she did it.

I don't know about your pony OP but I hope this helps.
 
annaellie said:
I think I just put my foot in it with all the cob owners out there I did not mean that in the way it sounded sorry

I thought u ment that you had never had your horses teeth checked etc I get you now Yes just ask either on here or on the yard your on for some recommendations on back and dentists.
Click to expand...

I'm just kidding, sort of imagined you didn't mean it how it came out - you coulda got hugely jumped on there!haha

Lillith, yeah he just stands up calmly and controlled, and gets back down again, I am hoping it's just a phase and he'll eventually give it up when he realises it doesnt work! But then again, I am at the bigger end of acceptable on him, so am worried one slip from me and I might bring him over. I think taking it back to where we were 6 weeks ago might be wise, as MiJods.. suggested. It's just a shame as he was being SO good, I wonder if he's just gotten stale as he was good as gold hacking round the village the other weekend, but if I can't trust him I don't want to take him out again until I can.

I'm torn whether to ease off and take it slower or carry on and push him through it. I guess back and teeth are in order first, so i'd prob be better off to ease off until that's been checked!
 
After back and teeth have been checked I would be inclined to forget ridden work for a few weeks and just go back to giving this horse some TLC. Im not a big tit bit fan but I won my nervy mare round with some tit bits and scratches after a couple of weeks I started working her again and she was an angel I could also just walk up to her and catch her. She was also a rearer in hand but didnt rear when I backed her.

I had a dually headcollar and as soon as she reared I walked her backwards about 4-6 paces, it was all very well she reared but she would have to work straight afterwards, she soon couldnt be bothered. Shes gone back to rearing though with her new owner funny how these things work and horse hroses work (teeth and back were checked).

Bare in mind these gypsy horses are used to working in blinkers or half cups so asking him/her to do work in a open bridle may be a bit strange for them.
 
AprilBlossom said:
So I took on an ex gypsy trotter as a little project about 6 weeks ago, not been ridden for over a year and hadn’t really done anything when he was, and he’s started to muscle up nicely from lunging and a bit of hacking (all the ridden work just in walk until I’ve got a girth that does up a bit tighter as the current one’s gotten just that bit looser than i’m entirely comfortable with of late!). I feed him a scoop of pasture mix on days that he is worked; before I took him on he was just at grass , so I don’t think i’m over feeding him, but all of a sudden he’s started rearing! The thing is, he’s not anxious or bargy when he does it – I had him on a long lead rein just mooching in from the field, was a bit ahead of him as he was plodding along as usual, turned around and he was vertical!! So he got a prompt telling off, returned to earth and we carried on calmly as if nothing had happened! He then later on tried to do it again, and so I circled him around me until he settled (which wasn’t long) and again we carried on.

His stable manners are fine, not perfect as he will paw at things and walk around a bit if not tied up tightly (cross tying would be ideal but I don’t have anywhere I could cross tie him really) and there’s really no malice in him, but it’s a bit concerning the way he can suddenly just go up with very little warning. He’s very well balanced on his back legs, doesn’t need any bunny hops before going straight up or anything, just seems to be a ‘look at what i can do’. I did try putting his leadrope around his nose so if he did go up, the pressure would bring him back down immediately, and that’s always worked with my cobby types who have been strong. Not this little princess however – he got very upset at it merely being on his nose and immediately put on experiencing breathing difficulties, and i’m sure in his commitment to it, would have collapsed had I not removed the rope. I know him as a character fairly well, so I can assure you all I had done nothing untoward to him, he was just being a pansy. What can I do in-hand to solve this, short of a chiffney?

He’s also reared up a couple of times under saddle, although not with me on board but with a friend who is a stone or two lighter than I am, and she sat them and carried on and he was fine – just an evasion thing, or should I be having various parts of him examined, and if so, which parts?

Thanks for reading this rant/plea for help!
Click to expand...

Oh stupid question does he pace or just trot??
 
He just trots, he didn't do much in the way of trotting as he wasn't quick enough, he's only 4 or 5 now, so a proper youngster in all ways! He's not nervy in the slightest though, so I'm a little reluctant to giving too much TLC Toffee, he's not bothered in the slightest by anything I've presented to him - first time I got the hose out he let me hose his FACE no bother, and if something does appear on the yard he's not seen before he has a little look and then goes 'oh, well if you say it's okay, it must be' and is quite relaxed. A friend of mine was hosing out a spray tanning tent (shes a beautician), he actually tried to get in it!! So it's not fright, I'm sure of it, and I think as much as i'd love to just TLC him to the max, i'd end up with the worlds most spoiled pone!
 
I am thinking maybe he has been used to cover. Which is why his is very balanced on his back legs and maybe he has been cut late?
 
Kaylum said:
I am thinking maybe he has been used to cover. Which is why his is very balanced on his back legs and maybe he has been cut late?
Click to expand...

I do wonder about his entirity... It's now just 2 boys on the yard but he previously lived with an elderly mare who bossed him all over the place, however when a little flirty 10hh pony rocked up (luckily only stayed for a couple of days) he was absolutely beside himself, and couldn't bear to be parted from her, put on a right show of masculinity etc!
 
i have one who rears in hand and under saddle when shes uncertain about what the deal is. so new places, confused signals, or bullying by the human.

shes fine physically, except for having smashed her withers by going over as a baby. im 99% sure she has been pulled over a few times, so now she is VERY balanced when she does it and i have never known her fall. maybe thats also why yours is so smart and stable as well?

in hand i just make sure i have a super long lead rope and let her carry on until shes finished. its worked really well, and its very rare she does it now as it doesnt provoke a reaction from me, so i think shes like 'oh, dont you mind?!'
under saddle, i just let her carry on & ignore it, then ask whatever i wanted again. i think some horses do it for the reaction, purely to get out of what they're meant to be doing so if you can just ignore & continue (provided they're not a danger to you) i think thats the best way! once they've learnt a party trick they do like to play on it i find!

She can smell fear though, literally, if i hand her over to someone who knows whats shes like and they're a bit nervous she morphs into evil devil horse, its really quite amazing.

good luck!
 
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