Its not illegal for dogs to bite horses!

[Welly]

A spokesman for Greater Manchester Police told H&H: “Unless the dog is classified as illegal under the Dangerous Dogs Act or is dangerously out of control, it is not a criminal offence for a dog to bite another animal.”


If this is true why can farmers shot dogs that chase sheep they are both animals

 

[ThePony]

Gosh, how strange is that?

I think the farmer thing is because the dog is worrying livestock. I wonder if biting is not a crime but 'worrying' is? Not sure of the definition of worrying though!

 

[Thistle]

Surely if a dog is biting another animal then it is dangerously out of control?

 

[lcharles]

Dogs can bite horses then but not foxes?! x

I also think its illegal to use a dog for rabbiting.....how are these illegal but a dog can attack a horse and its not illegal?! x Hmmm!!!

 

[M_G]

Dogs can bite horses then but not foxes?! x

I also think its illegal to use a dog for rabbiting.....how are these illegal but a dog can attack a horse and its not illegal?! x Hmmm!!!

As far as I am aware you can use dogs on rabbits but not hares

 

[Ranyhyn]

A farmer has a right to protect their livestock on agricultural land. I do believe that includes horses.

 

[lcharles]

Ahhh i see! Well in that case..... how can dogs bite horses but its illegal for them to bite a hare or fox!?! x

 

[Wagtail]

What about horses that bite dogs?

 

[Ranyhyn]

Dogs CANT bite horses... I think what the policeman is trying to explain to people is there is no laws out there forbidding it. He's a police officer...he enforces THE LAW...

There ARE acts of law out there protecting the other animals mentioned on this thread...

Animal on animal attacks are civil matters, I believe.

However, if the dog is dangerously out of control when it attacks your horse and you can prove that, then the police can gather evidence and you can take it to court.

 

[touchstone]

Horses are classed as livestock and therefore dogs are not allowed to worry them on agricultural land, if a horse is bitten by a dog in a public place then the owner would be liable for having an out of control dog; there is info on naturenet here:-

.

Worrying Livestock

When on any enclosed land with sheep all dogs must be on a lead or 'under close control'. If you allow your dog to worry livestock you can be prosecuted and fined, ordered to pay compensation and even have the dog destroyed. Now who's worried? Worrying livestock means attacking or chasing any farm animal or poultry - there does not have to be any contact. The landowner is not liable to compensate the dog’s owner in such circumstances.

DEFRA say "The main countryside rule is - DOGS MUST NEVER WORRY LIVESTOCK. Under the Dogs (Protection of Livestock) Act 1953 the owner, and anyone else under whose control the dog is at the time, will be guilty of an offence if it worries livestock on agricultural land. The dog must have been attacking or chasing livestock in such a way that it could reasonably be expected to cause injury or suffering or, in the case of females, abortion or the loss or diminution of their produce. An offence is not committed if at the time of the worrying the livestock were trespassing, the dog belonged to the owner of the land on which the trespassing livestock were and the person in charge of the dog did not cause the dog to attack the livestock. The definition of 'livestock' includes cattle, sheep, goats, swine, horses and poultry. Game birds are not included."

Any dog which is not a working dog can be regarded as worrying livestock merely by being off lead and not under close control in a field or enclosure where there are sheep. A landowner could shoot such a dog, if it can be proved that the action was necessary to protect livestock and that it was reported to the police within 48 hours. The dog's owner can then be subject to all the above penalties too - except being shot, of course. So be careful!

On a right of way your dog does not have to be on a lead but it does have to be 'under close control'. This phrase is not defined but pretty much means that if you are in a field with animals or poultry and your dog will not always come, straight away, when called even when he's chasing things, and then stay there, he could be at risk of being seen to worry animals. So if there is any chance he might go off then the lead is the best option until you are out of the field with livestock in it.

Damage and Injury
If your dog or indeed any animal under your control injures a person or animal or damages property, the owner or person responsible may be liable for damages. This would be a civil claim and not necessarily a criminal offence.

Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 and Dogs Act 1871
Extracts are from the Dangerous Dogs Act unless otherwise indicated.

1. The following dogs, and also cross-bred pit-bulls, are dangerous dogs under the meaning of the Act:

Pit Bull Terrier
Japanese Tosa
Dogo Argentino
Fila Braziliero

It is illegal to possess such a dog without a certificate of exemption, which is granted once the dog is neutered, insured, and has a transponder implant. These dogs cannot be "in a public place without being muzzled and ... being securely kept on a lead by a person who is not less than 16 years old."

A public place even includes locked inside a car which is itself in a public place.

2. If a dog is dangerously out of control in a public place, or a private place where it is not permitted to be, the owner; and if different, the person for the time being in charge of the dog, is guilty of an offence.

"A dog shall be regarded as dangerously out of control on any occasion on which there are grounds for reasonable apprehension that it will injure any person, whether or not it actually does so."

In the case of Briscoe -v- Shattock QBD 12 October 1998 it was held that a dog could be considered "dangerous" and "not kept under proper control" within the meaning of Section 2 of the Dogs Act 1871, even if the only danger shown was to other dogs, and not to humans. Being dangerous reflected the dog's disposition not his acts.

This applies to any dog, of any breed. The quote from the Act above means that any dog which is a bit lively might commit an offence if not kept under control - this could be your dog too! For example, we understand a farmer was prosecuted and fined under this section of the Act when his aggressive dogs intimidated walkers on a public footpath, even though the dogs were on private land and behind a fence (sorry, no reference to this case).

 

[Ranyhyn]

What about horses that bite dogs?

pmsl they are just funny

 

[Naryafluffy]

After seeing the ponies wounds I can't see how the dog can't be classed as dangerously out of control, there's a huge difference between someones dog not being used to horses and chasing them (annoying, frustrating and potentially dangerous) to what happened to that pony, that was clearly a sustained attack.

 

[Ranyhyn]

Lets try and remember here, there are no independent witnesses... the police only collect evidence to present to court.

One persons say so, no dog, no witnesses...

How long do you think that will last in court? Not that it'd even make it to court....

 

[Naryafluffy]

Lets try and remember here, there are no independent witnesses... the police only collect evidence to present to court.

One persons say so, no dog, no witnesses...

How long do you think that will last in court? Not that it'd even make it to court....

But the police advised they wouldn't be able to do anything anyway as this was regarded as a civil matter unless the dog was on the dangerous dogs list or was dangerously out of control.
What would be classed as dangerously out of control, given that this pony has injuries that required the vet's attention and stitches, what if the 8yo child had been involved would that have made it dangerous, if the dog had punctured a vein/artery that had caused the pony to bleed out? Where does the line get drawn over dangerously out of control.
I've had dogs chase me before when I was on my horse, but never attack my horse (my horse doesn't tend to react to dogs running at her and that tends to confuse them).
Think the point people are making is the lack of help from the police, referring to this as a civil matter when in mosts peoples eyes it isn't as the dog was dangerously out of control.

 

[MrsElle]

My old mare was found by me in her field with wounds that were confirmed by the vet as dog bites. Here field mate was plastered in diarrhoea and a nervous wreck.

We managed to prevent infection but her weight plummeted and although we battled for a year to get weight on her we had her put to sleep last July, a year after the attack. Fair enough she was an old girl of 29, but the vet felt her downward spiral was a direct result of the dog attack.

The police were as much use as a chocolate teapot, said they would keep an eye open for any stray dogs when they drove through the village.

I feel very strongly about the lack of law regarding dog attacks on horses.

 

[POLLDARK]

It is illegal for the dog to be off a lead on the road. Bridlepaths & footpaths all have signs asking people to keep their dogs on leads. So there shouldn't be any loose dogs.

 

[Arizahn]

I would never allow my dogs to bother or harm other animals. They are trained not to chase after/attack things and know what leave it means, etc.

However, I am fed up at the moment. There seems to be a movement to prevent offlead exercise anywhere. How are we meant to give our dogs a good run and play fetch if we can't even let them off lead in areas where there is no traffic, no children's play areas, no private land, no livestock, etc? How are we meant to reward them and improve their recall if we cannot ever practice it? And yet it's fine for gangs of teenagers to run loose in the same areas: littering and sniffing glue, getting drunk and throwing bottles at us. I had one stand and bark at us the other day! Thankfully it was behind a fence, but still...

The dogs and I were also cornered by a feral horse - a stallion who apparently might belong to a farmer somewhere within a ten mile radius of where we were. Or he might belong to gypsies. No one is sure. That horse tried to get past me to attack the dogs, all of whom were sitting quietly on lead. We got away in one piece, but the police could do nothing. One year on, and there is now an entire herd of horses, including mares and young stock. There is horse poo all over the park, and the main green where I used to play fetch with the dogs has been churned to mud by their hooves.

 

[Naryafluffy]

I would never allow my dogs to bother or harm other animals. They are trained not to chase after/attack things and know what leave it means, etc.

However, I am fed up at the moment. There seems to be a movement to prevent offlead exercise anywhere. How are we meant to give our dogs a good run and play fetch if we can't even let them off lead in areas where there is no traffic, no children's play areas, no private land, no livestock, etc? How are we meant to reward them and improve their recall if we cannot ever practice it? And yet it's fine for gangs of teenagers to run loose in the same areas: littering and sniffing glue, getting drunk and throwing bottles at us. I had one stand and bark at us the other day! Thankfully it was behind a fence, but still...

The dogs and I were also cornered by a feral horse - a stallion who apparently might belong to a farmer somewhere within a ten mile radius of where we were. Or he might belong to gypsies. No one is sure. That horse tried to get past me to attack the dogs, all of whom were sitting quietly on lead. We got away in one piece, but the police could do nothing. One year on, and there is now an entire herd of horses, including mares and young stock. There is horse poo all over the park, and the main green where I used to play fetch with the dogs has been churned to mud by their hooves.

People like yourself are not the problem, it's people who don't train their dog or practice recall/leave etc with their dogs that are the problem.
If for any reason your dog(s) done something to someone elses animal, would you simply say never done that before and then leg it, or would you be responsible and make sure the other animal was ok and offer to help in anyway that you can?
I don't have dogs of my own (I just borrow everyone elses), but i do practice obedience with my friends dogs and take them to classes, one of them doesn't have brilliant recall and is currently on a long line until we learn what 'Stop' means, the other will recall and leave but is a real gobby little ***** so have to make sure she is on leash round people or she will constantly bark and give them into trouble.
They were brought up around horses and I'm 99.9% positive they would never attack/run after a horse, but if they caused an accident I would make sure everything was ok rather than just saying 'they've never done that before and disappearing'
There does seem to be an increase in the number of horses being attacked by dogs, but to be honest I will always put this down to the owners.
I fully agree with you that if a horse is loose on public land then it should not be intimidating to the public and should be tethered, however like loose dogs owners have a lot to answer for, responsible owners will go searching for loose dogs/horses as soon as they are aware of it, irresponsible owners don't.
Not having a go at you as you come across as a responsible dog owner that would have your dog under control and this situation is highly unlikely to happen to you, however it's the irresponsible dog owners that give everyone a bad name

 

[galaxy]

It is illegal for the dog to be off a lead on the road. Bridlepaths & footpaths all have signs asking people to keep their dogs on leads. So there shouldn't be any loose dogs.

really???

I don't know about on a road, but to me it would be stupid to have a dog off lead (or on those stupid flexi leads) next a road.

Dogs ARE allowed off lead on footpaths and bridlepaths. I have never seen a sign saying otherwise (except the NFU livestock signs). It is illegal to not be in control of your dog, but that does not mean it has to be on a lead.

 

[Ranyhyn]

But the police advised they wouldn't be able to do anything anyway as this was regarded as a civil matter unless the dog was on the dangerous dogs list or was dangerously out of control.
What would be classed as dangerously out of control, given that this pony has injuries that required the vet's attention and stitches, what if the 8yo child had been involved would that have made it dangerous, if the dog had punctured a vein/artery that had caused the pony to bleed out? Where does the line get drawn over dangerously out of control.
I've had dogs chase me before when I was on my horse, but never attack my horse (my horse doesn't tend to react to dogs running at her and that tends to confuse them).
Think the point people are making is the lack of help from the police, referring to this as a civil matter when in mosts peoples eyes it isn't as the dog was dangerously out of control.

Sigh. In this country its innocent til proven guilty. How do you PROVE the dog was dangerously out of control without witnesses? Do you really think they are going to convict someone on circumstancial evidence only with no witnesses and incidently - NO dog/owner...

And animal on animal attack ARE a civil matter.... unless you can prove the dog was dangerously out of control (see above)

All the police do is gather evidence. They do not make convictions - the court do. The court are highly unlikely to bother with a case with no evidence!!!

*and breath*

 

[dafthoss]

Serious question here but where do you stand with a horse that attacks dogs if they go in the field or run near his legs?
He was bitten by a dog that the lady claimed was under controll but was snapping at the horses legs and he has never been the same again . Its much worse if I'm not with him as he does trust me to a certain extent. I am working on this but its hard as I dont have a dog of my own and he is fine with small dogs.

 

[PStarfish]

My old mare was found by me in her field with wounds that were confirmed by the vet as dog bites. Here field mate was plastered in diarrhoea and a nervous wreck.

We managed to prevent infection but her weight plummeted and although we battled for a year to get weight on her we had her put to sleep last July, a year after the attack. Fair enough she was an old girl of 29, but the vet felt her downward spiral was a direct result of the dog attack.

The police were as much use as a chocolate teapot, said they would keep an eye open for any stray dogs when they drove through the village.

I feel very strongly about the lack of law regarding dog attacks on horses.

Very sorry that you lost your mare under nasty circumstances. But what should the police have done? What could they do?

 

[Ranyhyn]

Mrs Elle, firstly sorry to hear about your mare.

Again I'd like to refer everyone back to my statement above, the police gather evidence. What evidence did you have? Vet report?... anything else? witnesses?? positive ID of the dog? Owner details?

 

[Mithras]

Lets try and remember here, there are no independent witnesses... the police only collect evidence to present to court.

One persons say so, no dog, no witnesses...

How long do you think that will last in court? Not that it'd even make it to court....

Corroboration from other sources of evidence. Witnesses are hardly the only source of evidence.

What the police try to claim are solely civil matters and what are actually solely civil matters, are often two different things. The police are influenced by pressures which are not necessarily related to what technically constitutes a criminal offence or not.

Is this not criminal damage to property? Property being defined as anything which is capable of being owned.

 

[Mithras]

Very sorry that you lost your mare under nasty circumstances. But what should the police have done? What could they do?

Investigate so as to gather evidence.

 

[Ranyhyn]

Corroboration from other sources of evidence. Witnesses are hardly the only source of evidence.

What other evidence would you suppose there'd be then?

 

[OWLIE185]

I was riding my horse on the public highway when 2 dogs ran out from a farm and attacked my horse by jumping up to her neck and pulling her down to the ground. I attacked both the dogs with my schooling whip and eventual got them off by which time my horse had suffered injury.

My first concern was my horse and getting it's injuries treated.

I visited the farmer concerned who became very abusive so I contacted both the local rural police officer and the dog warden. They visited the farmer concerned and made it quite clear to him that he had to control his dogs at all times and if there was another incident involving his dogs that they would prosecute him and have the dogs destroyed.

What particularly annoyed me about this incident was that other horse owners in that immediate area knew the dogs wheer dangerous but had never done anything about it.

If you or your horse are attacked by a horse report it both to the police asking them for an incident number as this will ensure it is recorded on the system) and also report it to your dog warden.

Sadly there are a minority of dog owners who do not train their dogs and it is these dogs that become dangerous. Remember a dangerous dog has the ability to be a killer.

 

[Mithras]

What other evidence would you suppose there'd be then?

Affidavit evidence and demonstrative evidence of course. Why on earth would you think that the only admissable evidence is from primary witnesses when there is a horse with obvious injuries available as evidence, even without further investigation being carried out to unearth further evidence by the police.

I suspect the reason the police are showing reluctance to investigate is because there are no reported injuries to humans, but this does not mean it is purely a civil matter but simply that they have a policy which prioritises certain categories of crime, probably for reporting reaons and successful conviction rates reasons - the police do not make the law, or even interpret it.

Personally, I'd insist the police investigate further, as a crime has clearly been committed.