I've joined the other side....barefoot newbie and pics

[SmartieBean09]

Ok, so here goes.....brace yourselves!

In June I went to try a horse for a friend, long story short, I fell in love with him and although I had no intention of ever owning another pony, I am now the owner of Mr D!

Mr D is a 23 year old Connie Cross. *He is 14.2 and an ex riding school pony. *I don't know much of his history but have been told that he has never been shod, short fed or rugged whilst in the last owners care.

So, from June until now he was kept at my friends field as a companion but we have since moved to a beautiful livery yard with lots of off road hacking. *He currently lives out 24/7 and will be hacked and schooled as often as possible. *He has one very small feed when he comes in for his quick groom and a general check. *Now I have never owned such a hardy pony, so have no experience in barefoot. *I do however feel that if this is what he is used to and he seems comfortable then I am more than happy to let him continue as he is.

So, not being an expert in barefoot but after reading everything I possibly can, this is what I have noticed with Mr D.....his feet were trimmed by a farrier a few days after I bought him. *To me they looked great but I did notice that for a week or so after he was foot sore. Now this could have been the change in grass from his old field to new or the trim itself. *Anyway it settled down after a week and I have since decided to leave his feet as long as possible before the next trim to see whether he self trims, the rate of growth that occurs and whether he continues to be sound etc etc.

He is definitely sound at the moment and can cope with the stoniest of paths and plenty of road work without showing any signs of soreness.

I have watched his movement and also got a friend to check whilst he was bring ridden and he definitely appears to land heel first.

He is currently on good grazing but this is in no way lush and appears to be quite weedy (could be varied species, i am no expert) He is fed Dengie Good Doer (300g) and Top Spec Lite (375g). I know this may not be ideal but this was the lowest calorie feed I could find to offer him whilst he has his groom etc.

I have taken some pics of his feet. *They look to me as though they need a rasp but have read that roadwork can do this and now that I am at the new yard we will be doing plenty of this so I'm not sure whether to see how he goes?

Here are some pictures of his near fore and near hind today. *Please let me know what you think. *I am prepared for critism, advice or anything else on offer as like I have mentioned, I am new to barefoot and there is only one way to learn.....

Near fore

Near hind

And Mr D

Lots of home baked cookies and genuine appreciation from a rather confused and intrigued newbie to barefoot

 

[SmartieBean09]

Sorry for huge pics. Uploaded them using the phone. :-(

 

[Oberon]

Lovely boy.

What on earth possessed you to buy a grey?

Sound and happy = you are doing everything just right.

His hooves are a little long if I were to be picky - but that's fine. He will find a length he is happy with when you start hacking.

However - there are lots of ripples to those walls and some slight flaring at the toe. Some of it could be the change - but some look like they pre-date that. The sole also looks rather flat at the toe.......these are all diet/metabolism issues.

Look for any thrush around the frog.

NO MOLASSES. If he is grazing 24/7 in the UK he is already drowning in sugar and this will cause rippling and footiness.

If you want to stick with Dengie then go for the HiFi molasses free instead.

I don't know the specs or ingredients of Top Spec Lite. I will say not every BF horse gets on with Top Spec products. We have no idea why though - it's just an anecdotal finding with some. If it works for you then cool. But if you run into trouble, I would suspect that after the grass .

I can recommend Pro Balance + as a balancer if you wanted to change. It has added levels of zinc to help create healthy tissue and resist mud fever and thrush (come winter and wet weather), it's as cheap as you'll get but also has added vitamin E - which older horses benefit from.

Micronised linseed is a cheap joint supplement among other things - which you may want to consider come winter too

Currently - what body condition score would you give him?

 

[LaurenBay]

Can't help with the feet. But just wanted to say he is gorgeous! he has a lovely kind face.

 

[SmartieBean09]

Oberon, thanks so much for responding (was hoping you would).

With regards to thrush, I have noticed a bit of a pong when picking out his feet but I can't say that this is everyday and I pick his feet out daily. I was thinking of getting him some spray in stockholm tar. Would that be the right thing to do?

His weight to me is probably a 3.5/4. Looking at the pictures I have taken today compared with previous ones he is definitely losing weight albeit very slowly. His ribs can be seen when he is moving around the field but he has a gutter along his back and an apple bum. I am going to try my best to let him be the breed he is an leave him unrugged through winter which may or may not help with weight later on. We shall see. What are your thoughts?

Why on earth did I posess a grey? Because I find him absolutely gorgeous and everything this nervous Nellie needs ;-). However I am dreading the winter bog and him being rug free!

 

[SmartieBean09]

LB, thank you. I do love him! I feel very lucky to have him

 

[Miss L Toe]

Sorry, I am no expert but I do not like those front feet, I would want a farrier to give a pasture trim and rasp round the hinds as well.
Digital cushions need more development, as long as sound , not tripping , I would do 30 mins walking on tarmac every day. Feed micronised linseed plus Fast Fibre evey day. If thrush, spray with Vets purple spray, and brush out with a small brass brush [£1.00 from inorminger]

 

[Jericho]

I am no expert but these are my thoughts fwiw gained from my barefoot journey.

If he is sound then that's brilliant you probably don't need to do much and it's often easy to say this is wrong witht he hoof and that is wrong but it's whether the horse is sound that matters not whether it confirms to a perfect shape. He does however have some hefty event lines but that might just coincide with flushes of grass. He appears to have a good length of heel.

In theory the toe look long and it doesn't appear as the frog in the hind is having much as it looks a bit thrushy and shrivelled so I would perhaps treat with red sole cleanser and field guard for a while. I think you are doing everything right regarding diet - getting your grass analysed and vits balanced by forageplus might be the next step.

Roadwork will trim him up as he wants but worth getting a trimmer or profoot farrier to give a view anyway. Definitely ask the farrier not take to any sole or frog off next trim either way!

He looks a real sweetie with such a lovely face. Could lose a few kgs as he looks very well especially for an older chap and being a bit tubby won't help his feet or his joints. Have fun with him, he looks such a nice boy

 

[Oberon]

Oberon, thanks so much for responding (was hoping you would).

With regards to thrush, I have noticed a bit of a pong when picking out his feet but I can't say that this is everyday and I pick his feet out daily. I was thinking of getting him some spray in stockholm tar. Would that be the right thing to do?

His weight to me is probably a 3.5/4. Looking at the pictures I have taken today compared with previous ones he is definitely losing weight albeit very slowly. His ribs can be seen when he is moving around the field but he has a gutter along his back and an apple bum. I am going to try my best to let him be the breed he is an leave him unrugged through winter which may or may not help with weight later on. We shall see. What are your thoughts?

Why on earth did I posess a grey? Because I find him absolutely gorgeous and everything this nervous Nellie needs ;-). However I am dreading the winter bog and him being rug free!

I didn't want to be rude But being 'well rounded' has a negative effect on feet. He needs to earn all that food he has been getting so doing some work will be beneficial for him and will also trim those hooves for him.

If he has been out 24/7 during this summer - it's perfectly understandable that he will have some excess weight and some thrush. I know my old boy is pongy at the moment

Thrush is treatable with a balanced diet and movement - but also topically with anti bacterial and anti fungal treatments that do not harm living tissue.
This stuff is good for field kept horses
http://www.redhorseproducts.com/Hoof_Care/Field_Paste

Def look into linseed for the winter. It helps the mud just slide off
http://www.charnwood-milling.co.uk/mail-order/Horse_Food.html#a55

Last was the first winter I didn't rug my Tank at all (although they came in at night) and he came into the spring looking sleeker than he ever has before.

If he still keeps those ripples in the walls in the winter (when the grass is less sweet) - then we can look into testing for Cushings to be sure

 

[Oberon]

I am no expert but these are my thoughts fwiw gained from my barefoot journey.

If he is sound then that's brilliant you probably don't need to do much and it's often easy to say this is wrong witht he hoof and that is wrong but it's whether the horse is sound that matters not whether it confirms to a perfect shape.

 

[Miss L Toe]

I would assume, and I may be wrong [it happens], that this horse will struggle to land on the heels, yes sound, as in not lame is good, but walking out and landing on the rear part of the hoof is better.

 

[SmartieBean09]

Thank you so much everyone.

I shall get some the stuff recommended to treat his thrush. I will also have the option to bring him in off the grass for the day too soon. He has a stable but he has been rather itchy of late and being the strong Connie that he is, destroyed part of his stable having a rub! Once his stable is fixed he can come in off the grass for a bit.

From Nov to May he will also be stabled at night so I am hoping he will cope with being turned out unrugged. I on the other hand may have to sit on my hand, bite my nails and give myself a slap in order to stop myself rugging

I've emailed a few UKNHCP (think that's right) trimmers but have had no response so I think next step is to find a farrier for him.

So diet wise, should I just change his chaff and add linseed in the winter or scrap what he is currently having and look at something like Fast Fibre/speedibeet, pro balance and linseed? He is a bit of a pig when it comes to feed and I just feel that without chaff, he will inhale hs feed.

Now that we have moved to a livery yard with unbelievable hacking (well for me anyway as Jamin was stabled near Heathrow) he will be exercised as much as possible which will hopefully help with feet and weight.

As for forage analysis, will this need to be carried out on hay and pasture? The fields are rotated every Summer and winter so I assume th analysis will need to be carried out each time?

Thanks again everyone or your help. I have been suffering from a serious case of head explosion trying to learn something new and something so very different to what I have been used to!

 

[Oberon]

You can get unmolassed, old fashioned hay chaff is usually available from vendors when you ask for it.

Hi Fi molassed free is another option.

We're not feeding for weight gain - just something to add a supplement in.

I'll get back to you on a trimmer - will you be moving to Reading?

 

[Dab]

OK this is probably a really silly thought and i'm happy to be shot down for this....but can you not make your own chaff i.e. cut up your own hay (add straw if required) as and when needed for a feed? then you know that nothing untoward has been added - and if you do an analysis on your hay then all the better. If it is just being used to add in minerals and linseed then what is the point in buying in a bag of chaff for one horse?

 

[SmartieBean09]

Hi Oberon,

We have already moved to Reading. Moved here after losing Jamin last year

Mr D is stabled in the RG7 area.

Thanks again.

 

[Miss L Toe]

My boy had itchy skin before started on the barefoot diet, so I assume that the micronised linseed and no molasses has sorted that, I also always, I mean always, wash off sweaty bits with lavender and or anti itch wash from Barrier

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Barrier-L...586?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2ebf22b1b2

 

[lachlanandmarcus]

OK this is probably a really silly thought and i'm happy to be shot down for this....but can you not make your own chaff i.e. cut up your own hay (add straw if required) as and when needed for a feed? then you know that nothing untoward has been added - and if you do an analysis on your hay then all the better. If it is just being used to add in minerals and linseed then what is the point in buying in a bag of chaff for one horse?

Bought chaffs I thought were chopped straw (often plus alfalfa for palatability and to balance straws nutritional gap eg low protein_, rather than hay?

My lami prone girl can only get enough forage without getting fat if she has mix of hay (soaked 12 hrs) and oat straw - with all hay she is still too porky. Thats on a bare paddock no hardfeed, exercised regularly.

So straw chaff might still need to form part of the pic.But best to chop it with older horses/anything prone to colic.

 

[Rueysmum]

What a lovely horse! I have a 23 year old TB who has recently gone barefoot because of problems with thin walls/soles etc.

One tip I have picked up is that you really have to be extremely careful in making sure no grit etc. gets into his white line. I use heavy duty purple spray on any holes and also paint his soles in iodine once a day in order to harden them. I am also in the RG area and the ground is like rock at the moment, so he wears his hoof boots, pads and socks in the field during the day and goes without at night. A good farrier trim is also a must and it helps if they roll the toe/walls and take nothing off the frog or sole.

I haven't ridden him for three months as he had a few problems which resulted in the barefoot venture, but I am due to take him out in his boots next weekend. Once the ground softens he will be barefoot all the time in the field, but will always wear the boots in front for any exercise.

He would always go lame after shoeing for a couple of weeks, so I am hoping that this new regime will give him a new lease of life!

 

[abitodd]

From Nov to May he will also be stabled at night so I am hoping he will cope with being turned out unrugged. I on the other hand may have to sit on my hand, bite my nails and give myself a slap in order to stop myself rugging

I went to a talk on laminitis run by a leading equine vet practice. They were all in favour of leaving horses and ponies unrugged. I sadly cannot remember the details,but its not just to do with aiding weight loss,but has a profound positive effect of the metabolic cycle.
Mine(a KWPN and a KnabstupperX) live out high up on Exmoor. They do (well the KWPN does!) approach spring looking lean(but no leaner than a hardcore exmoor hunter) and seem to cope with being on grass 24/7 through spring and summer.
So sit on your hands,but don't bite your nails. He will be fine.
Looks a lovely chap.

 

[TrasaM]

He's a lovely looking horse. If you were to visit Connemara in the middle of winter you would never see a Connemara with a rug on. I was talking to a relative there recently who breeds them. One of his was bought by a lady in the UK and he thought it hilarious the way it was being pampered. They are very much a product of their environment.tough

 

[SmartieBean09]

Thanks again everyone.

I've got someone looking at his feet tomorrow. It's a farrier not a trimmer but he is very well trusted and highly recommended so fingers crossed

Once his feed is almost up, I shall move him over to a Molasses free chop, linseed and Pro Balance.

Once his stable is done, I shall also offer him some time off of the grass.

As for winter, I have all intentions in keeping him rug free as this is what he is used to. I know I am going to worry what others think and I know that there will be temptation to give in and rug him but for his sake, I will see how he goes and only offer a rug if he needs it....even is that means sitting on my hands and slapping myself

I weighed him again today too and he has lost 7kg! So it is coming off, very slowly but still off.

Hopefully I can post some new pics in a couple of months and he will look fantastic.

Thank you again everyone (the feeling of my head about to explode is gradually dying off)

 

[Waltzing Matilda]

Hi u can so try epa UK for a trimmer. My horses were bare foot when I got them but seemed to go foot sore for a few days to a week after trimming by a farrier. Changed to an ep and was jumping the same day. So i think its something about the difference styles of trimming.

Ended up doing the cause myself so I now trim my own and for friends and not had any soreness following trimming. Obviously also follow high fibre low sugar low starch diet too.

 

[SmartieBean09]

Ok so farrier has trimmed Dazzles feet. To my eye they look ok, just wondered what everyone else's thoughts are.

So here is his near fore now

And his near hind

And after a tiny bit of oil

I'm hoping all the pics have come out in order and again I apologise for the size. Using my phone again

 

[Brightbay]

Keep that farrier! He's left frogs and sole alone and not rasped too high up wall, plus toes look nicely rounded but not over trimmed

There is some thrush in the frogs. You need to get on top of that, as it can affect the horse's comfort and cause them to be a bit ouchy over rough surfaces and make them try to avoid landing heel first.

In fact, the front hoof pic actually looks as though the horse is toe firsting a bit, as there's more wear at the toe. So get a Milton spray, or some tea tree oil and slather it all over the black raggy bits at the back of the frogs (and into that wee crack at the back of the frog on the hind hoof).

Something's going on with diet - you have two big event lines, about 4 months apart and one probably related to something about two or three months ago?

Otherwise, looking great - they will polish up nicely and shed the crumbly soles once you start to get a few miles on them

 

[SmartieBean09]

Thanks for the advice BB!

The thrush was mentioned earlier in the thread too so will get something for that tomorrow and begin treating it. I did plan on doing that today but time ran away with me.

I've only owned Mr D since June. I was told by the previous owner that he wasn't fed hard feed, just grass and hay. He is on chaff and a balancer with me currently but I will be changing that to a more friendly BF diet once feed begins to run out.

So glad you think the farrier is ok. He did come highly recommended but being new to the area and having to leave behind my fabulous farrier, I was rather nervous about having to use another, so thank you for making me feel better

 

[cptrayes]

I can count at least eight event lines on your horses feet. The bottom inch or so looks OK, probably grown before the grass came through. But for the entire spring and summer your horse has been putting out event lines, probably in response to varying grass conditions as it rained or there was sunshine.

Typically, horses with feet like that have a sensitivity to grass and need to be watched carefully to avoid them going footie over the summer.

If he was mine I'd have him on yeast and additional magnesium faster than a rat up a drainpipe, and consider checking whether anyone knows the mineral balances in your grazing and forage.

He's a sweet boy, I can see why you wanted him even though I wouldn't touch a grey

 

[Waltzing Matilda]

The trim is ok. But could b better. Its difficult to tell from photos but it looks like the medio lateral balance is ever so slightly out and that the heels are a bit long. With the outside Helton the near fore (I think but may be diosirntated upside down) being longer than the medial heal. There is also more flare that would come off.

However that said I always do a conservative trim the first time on a new horse as I don't know them and don't want to make any drastic changes (unless really needed and then am cautious).

Please be careful using oil it damages the horn and will weaken the feet.

 

[SmartieBean09]

Thank you CPT

He is due to change fields again soon too (1st Sept) . He is having his stable repaired at the moment but as soon as it is ready he will be coming in during the day. I'm hoping this is before he changes field. He is so itchy at the moment and it's because of that, he destroyed part of his stable

The lady who had him before me was more of a stop gap (I don't think she planned to keep him) and judging by his paperwork he has been passed around quite a bit and used in a riding school before he went to the lady I bought him from. Poor thing! It all ends now. He is a keeper

I was going to put him on Pro Balance when his feed is almost finished. Im guessing he needs the yeast and mag before this happens. Any suggestions on here to get that from?

 

[SmartieBean09]

The trim is ok. But could b better. Its difficult to tell from photos but it looks like the medio lateral balance is ever so slightly out and that the heels are a bit long. With the outside Helton the near fore (I think but may be diosirntated upside down) being longer than the medial heal. There is also more flare that would come off.

However that said I always do a conservative trim the first time on a new horse as I don't know them and don't want to make any drastic changes (unless really needed and then am cautious).

Please be careful using oil it damages the horn and will weaken the feet.

You see, this is why I come on here. Most of what you just said caused my eyes to pop out! so much to learn! Ok, so would you suggest to continue with farrier and see how we go? I can continue to post pics on here so that you guys can advise? As for the oil, I hardly use it. Should I be putting anything on his feet or just leaving it? Thanks again.

 

[cptrayes]

Thank you CPT

He is due to change fields again soon too (1st Sept) . He is having his stable repaired at the moment but as soon as it is ready he will be coming in during the day. I'm hoping this is before he changes field. He is so itchy at the moment and it's because of that, he destroyed part of his stable

The lady who had him before me was more of a stop gap (I don't think she planned to keep him) and judging by his paperwork he has been passed around quite a bit and used in a riding school before he went to the lady I bought him from. Poor thing! It all ends now. He is a keeper

I was going to put him on Pro Balance when his feed is almost finished. Im guessing he needs the yeast and mag before this happens. Any suggestions on here to get that from?

Ah, itchy too? Believe it or not that could disappear completely once you get his diet under control. I had one which was scarred from scratching sweetitch with his previous owner. I sorted out his diet and the sweet itch rugs haven't been on him since - and he was so bad that he had to wear them in the stable too.

yeasacc is sold on eBay. feed 15 grammes a day. You can get brewers yeast on eBay - 30g a day - but it varies from bag to bag in palatability so I prefer yeasacc, which is a live yeast so you feed less.

cheapest magnesium oxide is calmag from a farm supplies shop, 25 kg oc calmag, calcined magnesite, for around £15. Feed 25g a day, lasts for years If you have no farm supplies shop near you, also sold on eBay as a white powder, just more expensive than pink calmag.