JA that rears - what would you do>

[footballerswife]

like the title says really. i know a lot of them do rear when put under pressure and made to wait but today he just went up in the manege out of walk - there wasnt a pole in there.we knew he reared when we got him but thought we could manage the situations so he didnt get to that point. my daughter has had tremendous fun on him - he is fast and amazing on the turns and so clever - but she lost faith in him at the end of last season so we turned him away for the winter. just been back into work a month and winning small unaffiliated classes thought we'd cracked it then he did this today and she's like ive had enough! im not talking little front feet off the ground bounces - he looks like champion the wonder horse! such a shame because he is such a character and a pleasure to have on the yard.

 

[littleme]

Does he still jump?

If he still jumps, i would ignore it. Personally, if it still did the job it wouldn't bother me and isn't likely to go over or hurt your daughter.

If the pony won't jump, I'd say its been overdone and the pony needs a break from it perhaps?

 

[Kokopelli]

Is there a reason behind the rearing? Back, teeth, saddle?

If he's been off work for the winter its likely that saddle doesn't fit due to loss of condition so he possibly might be in pain.

How big is he, could you get someone bigger and experienced on him if it isn't pain related?

 

[Zebedee]

Oddly enough I've known quite a few former JA ponies that rear (saw one only last week as it happens). I think some of them just get to the point where they just don't want to have to exert maximum effort at every fence they come to week after week. The trouble is that once they've thrown in the towel & said 'enough' they tend to mean it, & just don't want to know even over the smaller fences.
That being said you can't dismiss it being pain related, although having read previous posts from you I've a feeling you will already have had this checked out.

 

[kerilli]

well, i wouldn't push your daughter to keep riding him if he's truly going vertical, i would send him to someone good, someone recommended, to get to the bottom of it and get him straightened out if possible, whether to come back to you or to be sold. if he's going as high as champion the wonder horse, over nothing (walking in the manege) then i suspect he has an underlying physical problem, but could be totally wrong if he's just a total monkey. but obv your daughter's safety and happiness is the most important thing.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

if he still jumps, and wins, and thus does the job you want him to do, and your daughter isnt scared-i would ignore it.mine will do the exact same if unsettled in the warm up, but is so so reliable in the ring, totally 100% focussed on me, so i just ignore it and thank my lucky stars he's with me when it counts.

that is assuming all usual checks come up clear.

 

[Baggybreeches]

Probably going to sound like a complete twit, but unless you guys have any experience of dealing with proper JA ponies I am afraid you don't understand. The very good ones are usually complete freaks (not all, but most are) they are a law unto themselves. If they are overcooked they won't do anything jumping wise, my old JA pony could be (flat) worked into the ground and she would not give in, she would just stop and lie down!
I would be inclined to ignore it, carry on as you are and keep the pressure off him for a while, we took mine XC to sweeten her up (and although she was initially a liability) she turned into an excellent XC pony and it kept her fresh and sweet. If your daughter doesn't want to ride him then maybe you could try to lease him out?

 

[BronsonNutter]

if he still jumps, and wins, and thus does the job you want him to do, and your daughter isnt scared-i would ignore it.mine will do the exact same if unsettled in the warm up, but is so so reliable in the ring, totally 100% focussed on me, so i just ignore it and thank my lucky stars he's with me when it counts.

that is assuming all usual checks come up clear.

^ that - my Bronts (who jumped to a reasonable level BSJA back in the olden days before his injuries!) could be a complete and utter fruitloop, especially in the winter when he was 'fresh'. The last PC outing we went to he spent the majority of the time on his back legs until he got to the fences and then was fine. But (and it's a very big, important but!) he never ever felt, not once, like he was going to go over backwards and I trusted him implicitly for he was pretty smart and so it didn't scare me - but if it scares your daughter or you feel like it's getting excessively dangerous then it might be worth getting someone very experienced on board to give you both a hand

 

[measles]

I'll be the one to disagree I'd get him checked out incase he is sore but if nothing is found and he is still going up I'd move him on with full disclosure of the rearing. Your child has only one skull and spine and whilst the pony will not intend to go over how would you feel if he lost his balance for some freak reason and landed on her?

We've had a number of experienced jumping ponies and whilst they can indeed be characters, fun, forward, plain daft even but any pony that rears would leave our yard immediately if I could't find a physical problem I could remedy.

 

[Noseyparker]

I'll be the one to disagree I'd get him checked out incase he is sore but if nothing is found and he is still going up I'd move him on with full disclosure of the rearing. Your child has only one skull and spine and whilst the pony will not intend to go over how would you feel if he lost his balance for some freak reason and landed on her?

We've had a number of experienced jumping ponies and whilst they can indeed be characters, fun, forward, plain daft even but any pony that rears would leave our yard immediately if I could't find a physical problem I could remedy.

I would have to agree with that, I wouldnt put a child of mine onto a known rearer.. however much I wanted the glory of a red ribbon

 

[mystiandsunny]

I'm going to assume you've checked for pain - otherwise do that first. A lot of really good comp ponies are sensitive souls (that's what makes them good at their jobs, responsive etc) and will rear under pressure/if insecure/spooking. It might be worth doing some work on the ground with the child rider establishing trust and boundaries again after the lay-off (even lunging, fun desensitising type stuff in the arena etc), then focusing under saddle on keeping the pony busy all the time - working properly, turns, transitions, circles etc.

I'd def get an instructor in and see what they can do. A small adult (my sort of size 5ft4) could get on and establish exactly what was going on (so long as your pony isn't mini, I know I've ridden 12hh upwards if stockyish, and happy on 13.1hh+ if finer). I've got a cracking comp pony who was too sharp for her prev owners and arrived rearing, then started that up again when her routine changed, and after some quiet persistence doesn't do so any more. She's start up again in a flash though if things changed, esp if she had significant time off. Maybe yours is just feeling unsettled and something spooked him?

 

[TheoryX1]

I really am no expert, but if he does the job and your daughter is not scared to ride him, then it could be just one of his quirks. My daughter's eventer can go vertical in the dressage warmup, and also bronc and buck, with all 4 feet off the ground. Its not pain related, its not naughty, its pure joie de vivre (if I spelt it correctly), and look at me, I am loving this. She gets a smack around the ears and told to get on with it, and like PS's horse detailed above, gives it 150%' in the dressage arena.

She is a quirky and talented girl, so maybe its just thats sort of issue?

 

[Fairy Dust]

As long as he still does/seems to enjoy the job and your daughter is not scared by the behavior then I see no problem. Just make sure all possible health problems are eliminated

 

[beckiebeckyboo]

If your daughter is not wanting to ride him, its time for him to go I think, I assume as has been said that back etc has been checked. but I have to say I totally agree with baggybreeches, Talented JA ponies are a law unto themselves, we have several at home none simple or straighforward one who has competed for this country last year and doesnt hack alone, will regually bounce side ways out of our menage, lead him in a headcollar and he generally goes where he wants not were you do and is generally a pain in the backside, all he wants to do is jump jumps! but we love him! we ve just learnt to manage him

 

[tinap]

I have a competition pony that also rears, & not just hopping about either!! He tends to do it when waiting, either to go in ring/start of XC or when in line up for rosettes. His back has been checked & is fine. My daughter just ignores it, although I think if she was a nervous rider it would be different. He consistently wins & just seems to be impatient to get on with it! In fact my daughter loves it when he does it!! If its upsetting your daughter though, I wouldn't push her, it will only make her lose her love of competing. Don't write the pony off though, someone once told me that a good competition pony is usually Loopy in some way & I know ours certainly is, being a **** to handle, catch & load at times, & I can't clip him but the willingness to jump anything far outways the bad times we have with him! I hope things work out xx

 

[footballerswife]

thank you all for the advice - loads to think about! although he has just had back and teeth done and no problems there i hadnt thought to get the fit of the saddle checked, so im doing that asap. i was also too busy looking for JA related issues to think about the obvious spring grass -which is definitely effecting the others, albeit in slightly smaller ways! we did give him the winter off to chill out, which he did and his behavior on the ground has completely changed, much calmer. we are also asking him to jump much smaller than his previous owners and he does still seem to love his jumping, you cant trot him over a x pole without him looking for the turn! we had another JA on trial that napped and reared but this isnt a nap. oh gawd. the more i find out about ponies the less i know!

 

[kerilli]

the thing is, JA ponies are the F1 cars of the pony world... they have to be, to be brave enough to jump those huge tracks. it is my understanding that they can't usually be handled like an average pony. i'd give him more exercise (walker or lunge or whatever's safe... can he be led off another pony?), knock hard feed on the head if you haven't already, and definitely get saddle checked (by a diff saddler to the one who sold it to you, ideally!)
BUT if your daughter is frightened of riding him after his rearing antics, her nerve (and safety) is more important than anything, and a more experienced rider can do all of that with him.
imho the most important thing is what does your daughter want?

 

[footballerswife]

yes it seems to be true about the JAs - we never set out to buy a JA and we're not even affiliated but these 2 came our way! i do think he will always be thinking he might be going out to jump 1.20 spreads and winds himself up accordingly. my daughter wants to keep trying with him. she is loyal to all her ponies, whether they do the job or not! and when it does go well with him it is just the most fun! we are going to check the saddle next week, get a very good very quiet small adult rider on him then take him to a low key unaffil. and see. thanks again xxx

 

[kerilli]

sounds like a very good plan, good luck, hope he's a good boy.

 

[lillie07]

When do you say enough is enough? When the pony has gone over backwards on her and broken her pelvis/ spine?! I have a friend currently re-learning to walk after a horse went over backwards on her. We all know accidents can happen with horses, so why add to the risk?

Maybe I am too soft but there is no way in hell I would let my child sit on something that reared, however good the pony!

ETS Sorry, I should have read the rest of the thread. Just seen you have a plan for the pony. Best of luck xx

 

[footballerswife]

thank you all for your really good advice - and for my PMs. cant remember if i said this already but we never went looking for a JA, two just happened to come our way although we dont even jump the ponies affiliated. i have become addicted to pony jumping because of these quirky brave clever ponies - and their riders! someone said they are the F1s of the pony world and not everyone can drive a Maclaren either xxx

 

[Dexter]

Just to respond to the people who say jas have to be loopy, they dont! I think mine is probably the exception rather than the rule, but shes a proper dope on a rope! Will happily let a gaggle of 6 yr olds clamber all over her for pony rides, and is safe for a competent novice to ride after 6 months off.

admittedly I didn't own her when she was competition fit, but I cant imagine she'd be much different! Shes currently on box rest as the yard has strangles, and has barely been out of the box for the last month, but I would have no issue letting anyone ride her now, other than wanting her to have 10mins turnout first.

 

[kerilli]

Just to respond to the people who say jas have to be loopy, they dont! I think mine is probably the exception rather than the rule, but shes a proper dope on a rope! Will happily let a gaggle of 6 yr olds clamber all over her for pony rides, and is safe for a competent novice to ride after 6 months off.

admittedly I didn't own her when she was competition fit, but I cant imagine she'd be much different! Shes currently on box rest as the yard has strangles, and has barely been out of the box for the last month, but I would have no issue letting anyone ride her now, other than wanting her to have 10mins turnout first.

No, they don't have to be loopy, there are of course exceptions to every rule, that's why i said 'usually', but a lot of JA ponies are tricky, they are jumping very serious tracks and get very wound up about jumping, and maybe life in general! i've heard of 1 lady who has them who keeps them on the horsewalker, just trickling round at walk all the time... unbelievable.
let's hope that in this case it's as simple as a saddle problem, and the pony will be good again asap...

 

[Baggybreeches]

Just to respond to the people who say jas have to be loopy, they dont! I think mine is probably the exception rather than the rule, but shes a proper dope on a rope! Will happily let a gaggle of 6 yr olds clamber all over her

Mine would be very gentle to handle she was a poppet with tiny people BUT she was definitely a screw loose to ride.

 

[wonkey_donkey]

When my girls were on ponies all our JA ponies were calm, safe and very well schooled which they need to be to jump big tracks.

The vast majority of good JA are also also like this.

However, there are a HUGE AMOUNT of JA's out there that for a variety of reasons have 'jacked the job in' which results in ponies that will now only now jump 1m classes and /or develop bad habits.
These ponies can be picked up for next to nothing and end up getting past from home to home which is a shame as most of them were brilliant in their day :-(

Your pony obviously is not happy doing what he is doing anymore and rearing can be VERY, dangerous for your child.
I would suggest you retire this pony and find your daughter something safe and less complicated.

 

[Baggybreeches]

However, there are a HUGE AMOUNT of JA's out there that for a variety of reasons have 'jacked the job in' which results in ponies that will now only now jump 1m classes and /or develop bad habits.
These ponies can be picked up for next to nothing and end up getting past from home to home which is a shame as most of them were brilliant in their day :-(

Yes this is what happened to my old girl, and how we ended up with her. It took 2 whole years to get her jumping again (during which time I was a bit overhorsed) and from then we never abused the privilege, she would turn herself inside out for me, and by looking after her so well she was still jumping (unaff) and hunting in the 3 months before she was PTS at 32!

 

[footballerswife]

just to reply to wonkey donkey and BB- absolutely agree with what you say. i have 2 old JAs on the yard and had a third on trial that sadly had to go back. they werent exactly meat money but close! the one that doesnt rear (!) has all the natural ability in the world, he actually jumped another pony in the field one day when they were messing about but i dont think he has the nerve any more - if he ever did. he'd jacked it when he came but as my daughter was young and nervous it didnt matter - we took him to local shows - only outdoors, you couldnt get him past the 3rd fence indoors - and jumped 2' classes for the whole season. you could almost see him sigh with relief when he arrived at the same safe show grounds over and over again. last season she won everything she entered at 2'3/2'6 and started winning 2'6 open classes indoors. everywhere we go people love him. everyone says "oh you should affiliate the pony". i think he might go up a class but i'll leave him there.even if she is still on him next year, he can come on the lorry and keep doing the small classes. after that he can go out on loan to the right family but i would never sell him incase someone sees the talent and does it to him again. xx