Jeckyll & Hyde?anyone have a horse that hates..HATES them?

SaharaS

SaharaS

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Just wondering really...and I mean hates you, hates every other horse near it tho used to love all dearly..will snuggle one second then the next vicious snaking..busting thru stable doors to beat up its neighbour, food agression(stable agression) has to go out alone for safetys sake as butter wouldn't melt but the next second it wouldn't just melt...it would chrystalize into brandy snaps! Jeckyll v Hyde have nothing on him. The other day, he smashed thru the door to bite his adjoining neighbour.and not only broke the door, but bent the steel bolt plate & kick bolt. He impacted the door so hard that the 8 screw in the top bolt simply pinged every which way. I think it is grief & jealousy, but that isn't endearing me to make more time for him.had him 8 years..and since his pal died(EAM) he has not been the same. He has hurt me, his friends and himself - broken his teeth as well as given himself a very big black eye(real shiner style had another head growing it was that big!)-kicked me in the knee, kneed me in the hand & broke it, head butted me, grabbed me by the throat,reared up & struck at my head/face several times totally out of the blue.. lunged at me,snaked at me, body slammed me into a metal gate twice..has nearly bitten his neighbours ears off & removed skin from all of them..yet will then snuggle up or call frantically if I turn them out.He lunged at my dog the other day who was simply standing not too near..i thought that stable door was coming off too..when he first saw my dog when he arrived..he grabbed him over the stable door & picked him up by his fur on his back & flung him -dog is a large rescue & was standing very quietly facing other direction.Totally uncalled for.
Really losing my patience here..any advice?I've started wearing a full face polo hat into his box & my body protector..thinking of investing in an air jacket.
Just to clarify, wormed,trimmed, teeth done, not ridden, fed accordingly-fibre & vits plus adlib haylage.

The faces pulled are real evil angry ones, ears flat back, mouth open,eyes rolling, teeth baring, using his size & body (17h tb) to make his point (what ever it is)
At what point is enough really enough...needless to say I'm not stupid enough to get on him tho i used to trust him implicitly & could get on him as & when without lunging (around my very rubbish health) and he never was anything other than the perfect gent) tho right now, I think he could use the bonding & one to one, I simply have no desire to spend any time with him till he snaps out of it, for my own safety & the welfare of my other animals. I really am coming to my wits end.:(
 
He's not mine, but one of the TB's and an ISH hate me :(
The TB likes other people, but not me! I've never done anything wrong :(

The ISH just seems to hate everyone :P
 
Nah said:
He's not mine, but one of the TB's and an ISH hate me :(
The TB likes other people, but not me! I've never done anything wrong :(

The ISH just seems to hate everyone :P
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I think mine would love anyone else! he used to be such a sweet trusting boy, and like you, I've genuinely done nothing to him..other than have his best friend pts. He has changed alot since. Vets - three now (diff vets over the 18month period)-have all come back with exact same thing, oh its nothing i shouldn't worry what do you want me to do anyway..

I have to pay off a £700 vet bill for my still not right mare before I start looking for any further but physically he looks well & droppings normal, eating & drinking ok so they have all said not to scope etc he had a physio out & all the three vets have checked over him. I'm sole charge of all of my own horses so its only me that has handled him & I don't know how much more I can take, I really don't. I genuinely don't think pain as its showing to me more as vice/behavioural. One vet agreed with me that it could be grief,the rest laughed..really can't take much more or me or one of the others will get seriously hurt.

I actually threatened him with Tescos earlier & feel like I actually meant it:(
 
Adlib haylage as hay makes him scour - mollassed sugar beet does too but he's fine onallen & page calm& condition. currently due to floods hes been in & worked in school (loose) or out on hill fields while others are turned out in menage in the next field.Rugged & in & night.benevit advanced for vits, oil, himalayan salt lick. Tried him on a few calmers but not enough significant difference after a good months trial to warrant the money.He's still very easy & calm to handle..except when he has these moments. They are fast to appear & fast to go.almost peers at youpulling a sweet face to get close..then bang, if you aren't fully aware & conscious of his every move, he'll for want of a better word, attack.did like marmite (vegan approved) but when given yeast it had no noticeable change.massively keen on rosehips if offered and turmeric.
 
Horses can have mental imbalance issues much like us try homeopathy for calming purposes prehaps. I would also suggest demanding a scope and if possible and affordable.
 
I have been giving them all access to peppermint oil when stabled - pure essential organic oil (4 drops in bucket of water) in addition to his normal water..he drinks anything from 1/4 to3/4 every night but will not drink fresh water from other bucket tho will in field as no peppermint water put in field. Can anyone suggest which homeopathic things to try? I've bought vanilla this eve as thats meant to be good for aggression & emotional anger/hurt but interested to know what others would try as I've only ever really used oils/herbs as opposed to traditional homeopathic remedies:)
 
Have a deeper chat with your vet. If the horse used to be the "perfect gent" and is now unpredictable and extremely aggressive, it could well be some sort of neurological issue or brain tumor, unfortunately. Has he been checked for these things? A horse who will smash through a door and injure itself in order to attack a neighbour is probably not functioning on all cylinders. I think "bonding time" is the wrong way to look at it with a horse who is trying to kill you.

To be honest, I would not keep an animal like that around.
 
Caol Ila thank you - I did worry whether it could be tumor or brain related, I posted ages ago, infact one of my first posts on HHO and was given a really hard time - infact same horse...same worry only worse. All well for me to say yes he'd have killed me if he meant to by now...equally I may have just been very lucky so far..I think I'm going to speak to my old vets back home...they understand me there!:D
 
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Did a long reply but it vanished into the ether. Dog tired now, so just to say don't despair, I've known 2 like that.

And re calmers, have you tried Bach Flower Rescue Remedy? Worked wonders for my human-hater.
 
Hi RF..not tried that..but will give anything a go to be honest - although I tried that at school at exam time (many moons ago) and it did absolutely nothing..(which is why I've not tried it since!) I have tried looking at this from many angles and trying to keep kind & level towards him, but I'm at the stage when his lunging thru windows between adjoining boxes is possibly going to get me hurt by another horse in flight than by him in fight mode.Could be simply immense jealousy, but I'm hoping not to learn the hard way.only takes one knock in the wrong place & its game over..I now have a very cautious but bold manner with him, no nonsense, zero tollerance.every attack however small now gets a vocal reprimand and if needs physical restraint/check -if he bites I steer his head away & immediately nip his neck with my fingers hard, I daren't give him a slap or any raised hands as I'm more than sure he would flatten me. I have thought of the blue poly carb tube..but the other day I raised my hand to protect my face-was holding hammer repairing door while he lunged & raised arm/hand and i swear i thought he was trying to get the hammer off me.Goodness knows what he'd have done if he'd grabbed it & flung it
 
Sounds like a very unhappy horse. My friends horse turned sudden last year from a slightly stand-offish horse to a dangerous unhappy boy. She had tests done but decided that he was far too dangerous so had pts. She had a post mortem done and a brain tumour was found.

You need to speak to your vet and make sure that no-one other than yourself handles him until you either find a solution.

Not a nice place to be. xx
 
I definitely think there's something else going on here. Massive changes in character are not normal.

Please rest assured that this is not because he's grieving for his mate. Or at least if that is upsetting him, it's because he's picking up that you're grieving for his mate. He certainly won't be blaming you - that's not how horses work. Even if you go down the wafty route and want a spiritual explanation, you won't find examples of resentment there. Horses understand life and death and if he knew his mate was sick he will have certainly understood.

We've lost one out of each herd over the last couple of years. Joe was Ol's pair bond and we were worried about how he would react. We let the herd see everything, the youngest filly was the most distressed (even though she hadn't paid much attention to Joe when he was alive), and the herd stayed very closely together for the next couple of weeks. Ol gained his confidence back and then took up Joe's rightful place at the top of the herd which is where he's stayed. In the other field, Lulu was old and was starting with low grade colic. Her two best mates absolutely knew that she was not much longer for this world. They just knew. Again, the herd stayed very tightly together for a few days and then they've been OK.

How horses do work is that if they are with their pair bond they feel stronger. This means that if something physical had been brewing for a while, it might have stayed under the surface with not many symptoms. However, now that support is gone the physical issue can come to the fore. Lulu's cushings symptoms were alleviated by her pair bond (there was a massive improvement in her after they met) and if it had been the other way round and her mate had gone first she would have no doubt deteriorated.

The important thing is that you can put aside your sorrow at losing the other horse enough to be able to look objectively at this one. Keep yourself safe xxxxx
 
My old horse hates everyone! She has had all checks she is just a typical moody mare. I recently visited her as my friend owns her now and she actually came up to me with her ears forward and stayed for a bit of a stroke before going and chasing her long suffering companions away from the hay! My boy is not keen on one of my YMs, I don't think he hates her but she is very brisk and no nonsense (I am also but not as much) and he is quite nervous. The only way he demonstrates it is he is particularly difficult to catch for her!
 
I really wouldn't underestimate such a drastic change in behaviour. As a matter of interest, how can a vet check for a brain tumour or imbalance? not saying it can't be done, just interested in how.

In the meantime, it sounds as if your horse has grids between his stable? can he moved to where he can't see horses on either side, just when he puts his head over the door? I know not every horse can cope with stabling like that. As for missing his mates then being foul in the field, my mare will be like that. She fell madly in love with another mare, hysterical when said mare was turned out before her, yet when they were put out together she really went overboard trying to be dominant. She is now out with another old lady and the 2 just ignore each other but she has fallen in love with the star gelding next to her! Shameful as she is 25 and he is only 7! what a cougar..
 
Hi EsterYoung..thank you for your reply..I hope I really don't sound heartless & horrible, but I'm totally over his friend dying...it was so sudden,I was upset at the time, but no more. It has been every vet that has suggested the greiving, so I'm not being wafty & mystical! His pet goat and his horse died in a very close space and he still goes & stands solemn at the spot the goat was burried yet he will not go into the box they shared.He stands & stares towards the trees his friend was burried under & frantically calls & snorts..this is two years now, three in august. Whether its grief or not,mental imbalance or tumors or simply something else, vets have all said everything points towards non clinical..which is totally against everything I feel..however, his stable is furthest from the centre of activity, the two nearest have been needing extra attention-one due to a virus & long term problems since sept..has required a massive amount of extra handling and the youngster next to him needs extra handling as he's been going thru some 'lets test my human out, growing phases' my eldest mare I've had 19 years 7 is on a box outside so i spend time ensuring she gets more attention so she's not left out...and to be honest? by the time I've done all that,specifically with my condition, I'm simply too exhausted on a twice daily basis to 'give' any more to a horse who simply throws it back in my face, literally. Since this got bad, I have handled him as minimally as possible simply as it is beginning to test my patience & I would rather give less attention(no more other than his basic needs of course)but quality rather than more attention and put myself at risk. There is only me here & I've 15 large animals and dog depending on me,no one would miss me or find me till it was probably too late. His attacks are not single spiked, they are continual. He recently knocked my out hovering over m while i tied his hay net - he stood over me I was looking up tying the net high on his ring and he put his head over mine &then there was an awful black pain upwards under my chin & nose.everything went black. the next day he went for me again the next night & smashed me in the nose - blood everywhere. It seemed at first that he was getting cross with the youngster if I had to raise my voice or speak firmly, the attacks would be instant, almost like he was sticking up for me -tho this usually ended up in the youngster landing on me in pure fear. its very very hard..an important point is he is absolutley kind, level & normal with anybody else.totally trustworty, gentle & the horse he used to be..totally predictable.

Can assure anyone that is worried, I will not be allowing anyone else to handle him tho till this is sorted, one way or another.(
 
Luci07 said:
I really wouldn't underestimate such a drastic change in behaviour. As a matter of interest, how can a vet check for a brain tumour or imbalance? not saying it can't be done, just interested in how.

In the meantime, it sounds as if your horse has grids between his stable? can he moved to where he can't see horses on either side, just when he puts his head over the door? I know not every horse can cope with stabling like that. As for missing his mates then being foul in the field, my mare will be like that. She fell madly in love with another mare, hysterical when said mare was turned out before her, yet when they were put out together she really went overboard trying to be dominant. She is now out with another old lady and the 2 just ignore each other but she has fallen in love with the star gelding next to her! Shameful as she is 25 and he is only 7! what a cougar..
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Yes..grids, tho he broke them so have a make shift mesh & am putting up some timber bars on both sides of the adjoining window. Sadly, I have only 4 boxes and there is no way I can swap any of them round. I am getting him a horse mirror online today, so that he can maybe make friends or enemies with the chestnut that will 'live' in that... he was fine in this set up before and as he is turned out alone,I think further isolation would make him worse(from previous experience) everyone needs a bit of contact so I might try enough wooden slats that he can only sniff & peep rather thantouch ie if they have the thickness of the wood between them rather than the more 'allowing' bars. I wonder if the haylage could be making him angry?(adding to not cause) I need to have a small windfall so i can get him some tests & a couch with a shrink(safely on the other side of a partition!)
Your mare sounds like mine - she's 26 & ALWAY ready...if you know what i mean!Such a girl!When house sells I'm buying her a leopard skin rug!;-)
 
is he any better after a feed, even a tiny bit? just a thought that the stress of losing his friends has caused ulcers. Although I have not heard of a horse being quite so aggressive, but you never know. I know my own lad is a different horse since his healed

Being totally honest if he were mine I would have him scoped and if negative i would PTS as your putting it bluntly your life is in danger here and if you only think of what would happen to the other horses if you were not around.

sorry to be so blunt hugs x
 
I would be thinking brain tumour like some of the other posters :( had a friend whose horse became unpredictable and on post mortem this was the cause.
 
I wouldn't rule out a brain tumour as have seen a massive personality change in a horse which subsequently turned out to have one.
However, you mention a goat. Would it be worth getting another to see if those goat vibes help?
 
I agree with Soulfull. Such an extreme behaviour change suggests neurological/brain tumour - well beyond homeopathic remedies, etc. To investigate this would be expensive - MRI scans, or similar, and if found, not easily treated.
In making your decision, consider how probably miserable he is now -he must be at least some of the time to act the way he does. Look at PTS as an option to put him out of his misery as well as to protect yourself. I am very concerned for your safety reading this. Many would not have persevered as long as you have. I hope you can come to a resolution of this as soon as possible that gives you both peace.
 
Does he have a very regimented routine? Do things get done at the same time as all the other horses? If not then I'd get him on one and if he is looking a bit too good on ad lib haylage look into getting lower value haylage or swapping it for something nutritionally lower, haylage can whoop them up!
 
I am very concerned that you are so isolated and that if something happened, no one would find you until it's too late. Not only you, but all of the animals you care for. This horse is obviously extremely unhappy, for whatever reason. If you cannot afford to have full investigations done, then I think the kindest thing would be to PTS, for everyone's sake. So sad.
 
A lady called Nikki McKay who 'talks' to horses came to see a friends horse who was like this. She diagnosed him as basically schizophrenic so one minute he was happy with people around and the next he'd be rocking to and fro like a Romanian orphan and not want anyone in his space. We know so little about mental health in humans let alone horses, maybe you will never know even if you do rule out health checks etc.
 
Sounds like your having a real bad time and your poor lad is too!
I have to say though I started my fella on spearmint a good few months ago and within 3 weeks or so he changed- bargyness all came back, arrogance, nipping, silly things not quite as extravagant as your lad it seems but may be worth a try.
No expert whatsoever sorry, might even be worthwhile trying a whisperer? :confused:

All the best.
 
Saharas, I have no experience with this whatsoever, but couldnt read and run.

It sounds very odd, to have a complete change like this. i would be talking to the vet ref the brain tumour/neurological disorder.

Either way, the horse sounds desperately unhappy.

I agree with Wagtail, this is an awful position for you to be in, and god forbid something worse happens to you.

Please be careful, and put yourself first.

Im afraid I would be considering PTS too.

Please let us know how you get on.

Keep safe x
 
One of our liveries was like this though not so extreme. Absolutely grumpy, the horses would skirt out his way and people would keep their wits about them. 6 years on (as a 20+ yo horse) she changed farrier and he was the nicest horse around.

Their was nothing glaringly wrong about his feet. He had an awfully angular bum but assumed to be his build/muscle wastage (lazy, old, ex racer, rarely ridden). Within the week of changing shoes he had decent muscle on his bum and was lovely temperament. Couldn't believe the speed of the change. So I'd be inclied to say pain.
 
I just wanted to apologise for my rather flippant earlier post about my old mare, I hadn't read your OP all the way through and didn't realise how serious this was!

It sounds like you are having a terrible time, is there anyone you can call when you go out to do the horses and then call/text again when you are finished so if anything (god forbid) does happen someone is alerted immediately?

With regard to horse I agree it might be worth trying another goat (although you might think this too dangerous for the goat?) and then if you can't afford to investigate I would seriously think about PTS x
 
I feel for you - sounds like a really horrible situation. My boy was a bit jekyl and hyde, though definitely nowhere near as bad. When I first viewed him he was as sweet as anything but was in a horsebox accident, and some people have thought this 'was the straw that broken the camels back' he was aggressive afterwards.

He was an absolute angel once his tack was on him but without tack very unpredictable...ears forward one minutes and he'd lunge at you.

I am pretty sure he hated me and blamed me for him hurting (he was fine with other horses). Not a good way to start ownership. I tried everything - vet, saddle, teeth, chiro, horsemanship person, reiki, horse communicator, herbs. Finally I sent him off to Jason Webb and I think the break away from home really helped. He is still a grumpy git but nowhere near as unpredictable.

Also I've found with Enys that it is seasonal. If it is sunny he is happy...if it is cold and wet he is grumpy. Far far better in summer than winter.

I hope you get to the bottom of it...my horse is only 15.2hh can't imagine how scary a 17hh horse is when being horrible.
 
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