Jiaogulan for EMS Pony - anybody using it?

[HollyWoozle]

I came across jiaogulan here on the forum but there really isn't much about it on a search. Have any of you used it for your horses?

Our mini with EMS occasionally has bouts of low-grade lami and when I look back it has always been after a period of cold weather and within a few days he is sound again. More and more I am convinced it relates to circulatory issues and thermoregulation in his hooves (I realise frosty grass and stressed sugars can also kickstart lami but he has almost no grazing and lives on soaked hay, plus a suitable balancer). Currently he isn't medicated and whilst I would prefer him to be significantly lighter, he was seen by vet on Friday who didn't think his weight was too bad. We are looking at starting EMS meds again but I am wondering about trying jiaogulan to see if that helps him (in addition), but as there isn't too much info out there I just thought I'd ask if anybody has tried it.

 

[paddy555]

I think you may be talking about winter laminitis. If you google it you will find references to it. I'm sure you are correct about thermo reg. It is worth googleing because there is a lot of info.
I think one of mine has it. To resolve it I keep him stabled overnight in winter (cold weather) and I boot him (RX2's) to keep his feet warm. Some people also use leg wraps.

The owner of urban horse has one and she describes her management. Will try and find the link.

Also if you google "Dr Kellon Jiao" you will find lots of sites. Dr K has a long history of using J herb.

 

[paddy555]

this one it may give you some ideas

Winter Laminitis

 

[HollyWoozle]

Thanks @paddy555! I think he gets winter lami basically, yes (from what I can understand so far at least). I'll have a read of your link.

Our main difficulty with it all is that he absolutely hates being in and eventually gives up eating, regardless of whether he has company in stable next to him (but he can't see over the partition wall as so small!). He is currently in at night, since Friday, and allowed in mud paddock in front in the daytime on vet's suggestion, but that is not really sustainable for him long term. Our others all live out 24/7 too which doesn't help of course but we have tried bringing one in overnight to make sure he isn't alone and it still doesn't settle him.

He does have some mini cavallo boots and we could put them on in cold weather as one idea. Thanks for the info.

 

[AppyLover1996]

I've used Jiaogulan for my retired lad in conjunction with Spirulina to help his respiratory system as he has COPD and found it helped regarding that, but not able to advise on the helping with winter lami part sadly.....

I've heard quite a few people use cinnamon for horses with EMS etc with good results as it helps the blood sugar levels I believe (please do correct me if I'm wrong!).

On the keeping him warm front - I had a friend who had a mini who had EMS and she fully clipped him each winter and then rugged appropriately to help with his weight as he hated being in and would also refuse to eat after a while, despite having company....she also had these infra-red leg wrap thingies that go on like brushing boots to help with circulation and she swore by them. I'm meeting her for a coffee in a few days so could always ask for some tips from her if that would be any help to you?

 

[JenJ]

I'm in a few facebook lami groups (thoguh don't read them regularly) and from I can gather, Jiaogulan is the latest 'wonder drug' but I've mostly seen it discussed by US based people. I don't think I've ever seen a UK person mention it, so don't know how available it is.

My Sec A has been on Invokana a couple of times for 6 weeks or so each time, that has worked well for her (though I know you mention yours has already had EMS meds before). She had lami about 18 months ago, and so far has not had another flare up, but it's a daily worry. I can't recall the names of the FB groups I'm in off hand, but if you do a search, any lami groups with 10k+ members or so should be a reasonable source. I'm in the ECIR one as well, which is useful but can be a bit preachy. As always, listen to advice but make up your own mind!

 

[HollyWoozle]

I've used Jiaogulan for my retired lad in conjunction with Spirulina to help his respiratory system as he has COPD and found it helped regarding that, but not able to advise on the helping with winter lami part sadly.....

I've heard quite a few people use cinnamon for horses with EMS etc with good results as it helps the blood sugar levels I believe (please do correct me if I'm wrong!).

On the keeping him warm front - I had a friend who had a mini who had EMS and she fully clipped him each winter and then rugged appropriately to help with his weight as he hated being in and would also refuse to eat after a while, despite having company....she also had these infra-red leg wrap thingies that go on like brushing boots to help with circulation and she swore by them. I'm meeting her for a coffee in a few days so could always ask for some tips from her if that would be any help to you?

Thanks @AppyLover1996. I would be interested to hear about her experiences with the leg wraps, although he is a mini and his legs are sooo furry that I cannot believe we could make too much difference in that regard. Would be great to hear your friend's tips though!

I'm in a few facebook lami groups (thoguh don't read them regularly) and from I can gather, Jiaogulan is the latest 'wonder drug' but I've mostly seen it discussed by US based people. I don't think I've ever seen a UK person mention it, so don't know how available it is.

My Sec A has been on Invokana a couple of times for 6 weeks or so each time, that has worked well for her (though I know you mention yours has already had EMS meds before). She had lami about 18 months ago, and so far has not had another flare up, but it's a daily worry. I can't recall the names of the FB groups I'm in off hand, but if you do a search, any lami groups with 10k+ members or so should be a reasonable source. I'm in the ECIR one as well, which is useful but can be a bit preachy. As always, listen to advice but make up your own mind!

I've never heard of Invokana and I will take a look at that, thanks for the thought and I'm glad your mare is doing OK now. ForagePlus is selling jiaogulan: https://forageplus.co.uk/product/jiaogulan-herb-for-horses/

 

[JenJ]

Thanks @AppyLover1996. I would be interested to hear about her experiences with the leg wraps, although he is a mini and his legs are sooo furry that I cannot believe we could make too much difference in that regard. Would be great to hear your friend's tips though!



I've never heard of Invokana and I will take a look at that, thanks for the thought and I'm glad your mare is doing OK now. ForagePlus is selling jiaogulan: https://forageplus.co.uk/product/jiaogulan-herb-for-horses/

Ooh, I might try some of that then, thanks for the link.

Invokana is canagliflozin, you may have heard ertugliflozin (Stelagtro) mentioned before as it's more commonly used - my vet prescribes whichever of the two tends to be cheapest at that time(!), as they are basically the same. They are now the 'go to' treatments for EMS, ahead of metformin, which apparently wasn't actually that effective anyway

It's a drug for diabetes type 2 in humans and has proven to be very effective in reducing insulin levels in equines. Short term use only, as it can affect the kidneys, and it's not been used in equines long enough to properly assess long term side effects.

 

[HollyWoozle]

Aha thanks for the explanation! The vet has actually just prescribed ertugliflozin for him today so we will get that started, but I think we will still look at jiaogulan as well when things have settled down.

 

[joelb]

I use jiaogulan for my Cushings/IR mare, I follow Dr K and read her articles. Mine had sub clinical laminitis last year which we only discovered when her bones were close to penetrating. I started it then and believe it was a major contributor to her pulling through, she tripled sole depth in 8 weeks. Nothing else changed in terms of diet or meds so I'm convinced the circulatory improvement helped. I use the Progressive Earth one and rate it very highly.

 

[Widgeon]

Aha thanks for the explanation! The vet has actually just prescribed ertugliflozin for him today so we will get that started, but I think we will still look at jiaogulan as well when things have settled down.

It's useful stuff, my EMS cob was on it for three months a couple of years ago and it did wonders. Brought his insulin levels down (we'd tried and tried "diet and exercise" but they remained stubbornly stuck at quite a high level) shifted a load of weight, and seemed to work as a system re-set so he no longer has to be starved to keep the weight off. I did find that the recommended dose was too high for him so we dropped him down to a half dose after a couple of days of extreme lethargy. Even on a half dose the effect was pretty incredible.

 

[HollyWoozle]

Thank you - great to hear some thoughts on both the jiaogulan and the ertugliflozin! Domino is looking a bit brighter today and I hope we can find a way forward for him which seems him keep improving.

 

[Cragrat]

I used it on a pony I'd just bought who kicked a wall and snapped his navicular bone in half. I have absolutely no idea if it was the Jiaogulan or the comfrey or both, but it healed well and he went on to do his intended job pony clubbimg/ jumping/hunting etc,

I'd only just taken his shoes off. Until I read this thread, I hadn't really thought that the Jiaogulan may also been why his hooves recovered so well from being shod.