Patches
Well-Known Member
At what age, if at all, do you think horses would need or should be put onto a joint supplement?
Joint Supplement - do you or don't you?
- Thread starter Patches
- Start date
rach1984horse
Well-Known Member
My 18 year old mare is on Cortaflex. She just does some hacking and some in hand showing. I'm hoping to do some pleasure rides next year.
Chex
Well-Known Member
I've been struggling to find a supplement that actually works (ie is scientifically proven), so Chex has only been on herb ones. But this year his arthritis is so bad he's on bute for it, but then he is 24. I wouldn't give it to a young, perfectly healthy horse, if you fed a supplement for every eventuality they'd have more supplements than feed! However if it was proved a supplement will reduce stiffness in later life, then I'd have used it. I think to get to 24 with very little arthritis is good, and he's never been on proper supplements.
helenandshadow
Well-Known Member
I put 16+ but i think it depends on the horse. Shadow (she is 10) isn't on a joint supplement but my old pony was on Cortaflex, she was in her early twenties and i did hacking, schooling, SJ, XC and showing with her.
I read the last question wrong (didn't see the 'only') and i put yes. If i read it right i would've put no.
I read the last question wrong (didn't see the 'only') and i put yes. If i read it right i would've put no.
jayvee
Well-Known Member
My 18yo has been on new market js. She went on it 8yrs ago after she once jarred her fetlocks ans strained a tendon and has stayed on it all this time. She has remained sound ever since and hunted hard for 7 seasons.
I think using a supplement that your horse requires is no bad thing. But just ensure the supplement actually gives you what you want!
I think using a supplement that your horse requires is no bad thing. But just ensure the supplement actually gives you what you want!
pagancluf
Well-Known Member
I've got an ex-race horse and he has arthritis in hock so is on no-bute and joint supp and really improved since been taking it.
mitchellk
Well-Known Member
I have a 7yr old who has had an operation on his hock in the past so he gets a joint supplement otherwise I wouldn't worry with him.
Was reading a cortaflex tub the other day says it contains protein derived from mammalian sources (or similar wording). I always imagined that they were from aquatic sources for some reason can anyone shed any light?- sorry off subject a bit!
Was reading a cortaflex tub the other day says it contains protein derived from mammalian sources (or similar wording). I always imagined that they were from aquatic sources for some reason can anyone shed any light?- sorry off subject a bit!
Bossanova
Well-Known Member
Seeing as there's very little evidence that they do much in the way of protection, I'd only feed them if there was a known problem. Then I think there's a slim chance it could be beneficial. Anything else seems to be a waste of money!!
RachelB
Well-Known Member
My horse has quite poor limb conformation (very straight pasterns and upright feet) and can get a little bit stiff all round, so I feed her apple cider vinegar as a general supp and preventative of joint problems. It's cheap enough and makes me feel better! If she did start getting bad joints, I'd put her on something for it. We only hack, school and do some dressage and jumping as yet, but will never go above RC stuff. My mare is (apparently) 10, but I don't think there's a specific age at which horses should be fed joint supps, I think it depends on the individual horse and it's circumstances, and whether any supp seems to work on that horse.
Patricksmum
Well-Known Member
My horse is 22, at 17, he was so stiff & poorly that we thought he was at the end of his working life - 7/8 TB, just gen RC work - all-rounder.
With a combination of Bowen therapy, Naf superflex & Super solvitax supple joint supp (& advice from vet) he came back to do unaff dr, winning Prelim & Novice classes with up to 70%, been XC schooling & competing v successfully. He's just been off for 10 months with laminitis/abcess in front foot, now back in work & better than ever!!
I know that some people will say why 2 supps, we have tried with 1 or other, but needs both - so you could say I am a BIG FAN of supps
With a combination of Bowen therapy, Naf superflex & Super solvitax supple joint supp (& advice from vet) he came back to do unaff dr, winning Prelim & Novice classes with up to 70%, been XC schooling & competing v successfully. He's just been off for 10 months with laminitis/abcess in front foot, now back in work & better than ever!!
I know that some people will say why 2 supps, we have tried with 1 or other, but needs both - so you could say I am a BIG FAN of supps
Theresa_F
Well-Known Member
Cairo is now 20 and had cortaflex for the past three years as he started to get stiff. He now in addition has linseed - really has seem to loosen him up.
Chancer is only 2 but he too has linseed for both his coat and his joints - he is going to be a fairly heavy lad when he finished growing.
Chancer is only 2 but he too has linseed for both his coat and his joints - he is going to be a fairly heavy lad when he finished growing.
PapaFrita
Well-Known Member
I give PF cider vinegar as a sort of preventative measure... even though bloody Fabian and Luis keep pinching it to make their salads!!
I would certainly give her 'natural' rememdies, but I don't think I would fork out for an expensive supplement until/unless she started to show real signs of stiffness.
FMM
Well-Known Member
Bob (the cob in PF's sig) retired from showing when he was 13 years old. He had come 3rd at HOYS when he was 11, so was at a high level. For the following 4 years he hacked out with the babies and was noticeably stiffer every year.
We decided to bring him out of retirement for a final season in 2006 aged 17 years as my riding horse was out of action. We started giving him supplements (MSM, Cortaflex etc) and the difference was almost miraculous. He was 4th in the open class at the nat champs and was 11th at HOYS this year. Even though he is now back in retirement, we are keeping on the supplements (about £15 per week) as they have given him a new lease of life.
We decided to bring him out of retirement for a final season in 2006 aged 17 years as my riding horse was out of action. We started giving him supplements (MSM, Cortaflex etc) and the difference was almost miraculous. He was 4th in the open class at the nat champs and was 11th at HOYS this year. Even though he is now back in retirement, we are keeping on the supplements (about £15 per week) as they have given him a new lease of life.
Patches
Well-Known Member
Thanks for everyone's inputs. I've been quite surprised by the wide variations in ages people have put for starting supplements.
I'll explain the reasons behind my post.
On Thursday I asked my vet whether he thought that Patches would be ok to do some low key endurance. I've not long moved to this practice so I gave the vet all the background on Patches toe dragging etc.
Vet then diagnosed that Patches probably has a "touch of spavin" and that working her more consistently as well as doing some pleasure rides/endurance would most likely improve Patches movement, making her more supple also.
He reasoned that a horses in more regular, consistent levels of work and maintaining a decent level of fitness generally are far less likely to be stiff than horses only placed under saddle once a week or so and then expected to be flogged harder for that one session. Totally, totally agree with him.
So, vet then handed me a £55 tub of a joint supplement that's expected to last about 10 weeks to see how I got on with it.
Now, I am not adverse to using something IF it's going to improve my horse's way of going. However, Patches has ALWAYS dragged her hind toes a bit. At a vetting in June 2005 I asked the vet to give her hocks special attention as her gait did give me cause for concern, even though everything else about he was perfect for me. (hence why I didn't just walk away...I knew she'd be a special horse for me).
The vet did a rigorous five stage vetting and Patches gait never altered. She never threw a lame step....just her normal stride. Surely if she had spavins she'd have thrown some decidedly lame steps after being flexioned? Another point to bear in mind is that Patches is quite fit at the moment (could be fitter I accept) and she doesn't drag her toes/tap them down in the stride half as much as she used to do. Infact she no longer does it at all in walk and only intermittently in trot. I know the history of Patches since she was 3 years old, she's 8 now. Would spavins improve over time...I assumed it'd deteriorate.
The final point to consider here is that Patches was on very high doses of bute after her her tendon surgery when adhesions formed. I had to work her on bute to help break down the adhesions. Three sachets of bute a day made no difference whatsoever to her movement behind...so can it really be pain related?
My thoughts on the assumption of her having spavin aside, I've decided to give her the supplement to see for myself if it makes any difference to her. I was asking as the vet seemed surprised that I didn't have her on a joint supplement already.
I'll explain the reasons behind my post.
On Thursday I asked my vet whether he thought that Patches would be ok to do some low key endurance. I've not long moved to this practice so I gave the vet all the background on Patches toe dragging etc.
Vet then diagnosed that Patches probably has a "touch of spavin" and that working her more consistently as well as doing some pleasure rides/endurance would most likely improve Patches movement, making her more supple also.
He reasoned that a horses in more regular, consistent levels of work and maintaining a decent level of fitness generally are far less likely to be stiff than horses only placed under saddle once a week or so and then expected to be flogged harder for that one session. Totally, totally agree with him.
So, vet then handed me a £55 tub of a joint supplement that's expected to last about 10 weeks to see how I got on with it.
Now, I am not adverse to using something IF it's going to improve my horse's way of going. However, Patches has ALWAYS dragged her hind toes a bit. At a vetting in June 2005 I asked the vet to give her hocks special attention as her gait did give me cause for concern, even though everything else about he was perfect for me. (hence why I didn't just walk away...I knew she'd be a special horse for me).
The vet did a rigorous five stage vetting and Patches gait never altered. She never threw a lame step....just her normal stride. Surely if she had spavins she'd have thrown some decidedly lame steps after being flexioned? Another point to bear in mind is that Patches is quite fit at the moment (could be fitter I accept) and she doesn't drag her toes/tap them down in the stride half as much as she used to do. Infact she no longer does it at all in walk and only intermittently in trot. I know the history of Patches since she was 3 years old, she's 8 now. Would spavins improve over time...I assumed it'd deteriorate.
The final point to consider here is that Patches was on very high doses of bute after her her tendon surgery when adhesions formed. I had to work her on bute to help break down the adhesions. Three sachets of bute a day made no difference whatsoever to her movement behind...so can it really be pain related?
My thoughts on the assumption of her having spavin aside, I've decided to give her the supplement to see for myself if it makes any difference to her. I was asking as the vet seemed surprised that I didn't have her on a joint supplement already.
Tia
Well-Known Member
None of mine are on supplements and I do have a few oldies here. The best thing that I find to keep them mobile is to put them in hilly fields, that way they are constantly moving and keeping their muscles toned even in times of lesser amounts of riding.
I have had 2 horses throughout the years who have had; 1 had DJD and the other had lower ringbone; both sailed through vettings, although one sailed through one month and didn't the following, LOL! Neither of them were on supplements whilst in my ownership however I don't know whether the owners after me put them on them. In the years I had the ringbone horse; he never took a lame step however he did have a slightly odd action on the ringbone leg as his long and short pastern bones had fused together - still didn't affect his XCing 3 or 4 times a week. His condition was purely mechanical and nothing to do with pain or lack of something.
The little DJD mare did used to go lame on us once in a while if she wasn't kept in work. On X-rays it was found that she had little bony spurs. Vet's suggestion was to keep her in work and hopefully it would keep her sound. When I sold her the new owners competed a fair whack on her and told me (after 7 years - that was the last time I had contact with them) that she had never ever been lame whilst in their ownership. Therefore the vet had been obviously right.
I don't generally put much stock in these expensive wonder drugs, but there is no doubt that for some horses they do seem to have some effect. Try it - why not. If you see no difference or benefit after a couple of months then bin it.......nothing ventured, nothing gained.
I have had 2 horses throughout the years who have had; 1 had DJD and the other had lower ringbone; both sailed through vettings, although one sailed through one month and didn't the following, LOL! Neither of them were on supplements whilst in my ownership however I don't know whether the owners after me put them on them. In the years I had the ringbone horse; he never took a lame step however he did have a slightly odd action on the ringbone leg as his long and short pastern bones had fused together - still didn't affect his XCing 3 or 4 times a week. His condition was purely mechanical and nothing to do with pain or lack of something.
The little DJD mare did used to go lame on us once in a while if she wasn't kept in work. On X-rays it was found that she had little bony spurs. Vet's suggestion was to keep her in work and hopefully it would keep her sound. When I sold her the new owners competed a fair whack on her and told me (after 7 years - that was the last time I had contact with them) that she had never ever been lame whilst in their ownership. Therefore the vet had been obviously right.
I don't generally put much stock in these expensive wonder drugs, but there is no doubt that for some horses they do seem to have some effect. Try it - why not. If you see no difference or benefit after a couple of months then bin it.......nothing ventured, nothing gained.
GTs
Well-Known Member
Suppliments being an unregulated industry, contain very little of what they say they do, charge an awful for it, etc so there is no way I am going to waste my money on them - I think it is more in the owners psychie than any real results.
If my horse needs something bring out the prescriptions.
If my horse needs something bring out the prescriptions.
Patches
Well-Known Member
I see where you are coming from there GTs.
However, this supplement may come under your generic "waste of money" thesis, but it's also a prescription only supplement!
However, this supplement may come under your generic "waste of money" thesis, but it's also a prescription only supplement!
Patches
Well-Known Member
Thanks Tia.
That's exactly the sentiment I have adopted with regards to the supplement. If I don't see any improvement in her way of going, especially behind, then I shan't ask the vet for a repeat.
I do think whatever it is that causes her hind action is clearly better when she's in regular, active work. Certainly it's true to say she feels freer when she's fitter and has been ridden a fair bit.
Perhaps there is something to be said for not necessarily lowering the amount of work in a horse with some form of stiffness or another. I guess it's common practice for some people to think when the horse has some arthritis etc that they should totally reduce the workload, even semi retire, assuming it'll benefit the horse. From the way my vet put it, riding very frequently but maybe more considerately (ie...perhaps stop trotting on roads, or watch the amount of jumping you do and on what ground you jump on) is really the way to go.
I wonder how many of us riders actually ride their horses often enough?
That's exactly the sentiment I have adopted with regards to the supplement. If I don't see any improvement in her way of going, especially behind, then I shan't ask the vet for a repeat.
I do think whatever it is that causes her hind action is clearly better when she's in regular, active work. Certainly it's true to say she feels freer when she's fitter and has been ridden a fair bit.
Perhaps there is something to be said for not necessarily lowering the amount of work in a horse with some form of stiffness or another. I guess it's common practice for some people to think when the horse has some arthritis etc that they should totally reduce the workload, even semi retire, assuming it'll benefit the horse. From the way my vet put it, riding very frequently but maybe more considerately (ie...perhaps stop trotting on roads, or watch the amount of jumping you do and on what ground you jump on) is really the way to go.
I wonder how many of us riders actually ride their horses often enough?
Tia
Well-Known Member
Both my vets, here and in the UK, were of exactly the same opinion as yours.
Do you think many people ride frequently? I don't to be honest - I would think most folks only ride 3 or 4 hours a week, if that. You are riding almost daily and are giving Patches a good work out, she is quite obviously very fit and I think you should continue with this as it may well be attributable to lesser chance of arthritis setting in at a deep rooted level.
Just my two penneth worth.
Do you think many people ride frequently? I don't to be honest - I would think most folks only ride 3 or 4 hours a week, if that. You are riding almost daily and are giving Patches a good work out, she is quite obviously very fit and I think you should continue with this as it may well be attributable to lesser chance of arthritis setting in at a deep rooted level.
Just my two penneth worth.
Halfpass
Well-Known Member
Sounds like patches has a similar action to our cob. He drags his toes and generaly stiff behind but never looks lame, he also struggles walking down very steep hills unless you really let him walk out. We took him to be inverstigated and he was diagnosed with problems of the sacro illiac joint. They nerve blocked this joint and only then did his gait change. We were offered scintigraphy for him but declined as the care for him wouldn't have changed. He is now on buteless and regular chiropractor vsits and he is doing as much as any other horse can do. He has good days and bad days and it is quite obvious when he needs another visit from the back lady. He is 11 by the way. We tried him on joint supplements over the counter and from the vets but the buteless is the one that had made the most difference and evts are happy for him to be on this long term and still ridden.
Patches
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure that I think riding more often can actually prevent arthritis in a fit and healthy horse or pony. However, I like you, do believe that horses with some mechanical anomaly or another are possibly better suited to remaining more active.
I average 5 days a week of riding. Mainly because of the weather at the moment. If I could ride daily, I would. We've been suffering, as I believe everyone has, with a rotten run of wet, windy, miserable weather. As I don't have a manège, drizzly and misty days have meant I won't ride out. Visibility isn't great on those days and it's not worth risking cars not being able to see us clearly...high viz or not. Not to mention it being no fun at all getting a battering by high winds and horizontal rain!
My hacking does incorporate trot work. Not ideal to most people's views, but the only way for me to keep Patches fitter over the months when I can't school in the field. I ride on average about 10 hours a week, covering approximately 45 miles or so.
I could do more, would love to, but it's not as easy now Isobel is in nursery school. She only goes in the afternoons. Roll on next September when she's full time! Let the riding begin!!!!!!
Tweenie's not ridden as much though. With Hannah being in school and at her dad's after school Friday until about 4pm on a Saturday it means Hannah only does one proper hack a week on her. However, I will long rein her once. Ashley has Tuesday's off college and on his day off he will, again weather permitting, tag along leading Tweenie behind me and Patches for a good two and a half hour ride. She's not a pony that loses fitness easily. She parades about the field too much for that.
I average 5 days a week of riding. Mainly because of the weather at the moment. If I could ride daily, I would. We've been suffering, as I believe everyone has, with a rotten run of wet, windy, miserable weather. As I don't have a manège, drizzly and misty days have meant I won't ride out. Visibility isn't great on those days and it's not worth risking cars not being able to see us clearly...high viz or not. Not to mention it being no fun at all getting a battering by high winds and horizontal rain!
My hacking does incorporate trot work. Not ideal to most people's views, but the only way for me to keep Patches fitter over the months when I can't school in the field. I ride on average about 10 hours a week, covering approximately 45 miles or so.
I could do more, would love to, but it's not as easy now Isobel is in nursery school. She only goes in the afternoons. Roll on next September when she's full time! Let the riding begin!!!!!!
Tweenie's not ridden as much though. With Hannah being in school and at her dad's after school Friday until about 4pm on a Saturday it means Hannah only does one proper hack a week on her. However, I will long rein her once. Ashley has Tuesday's off college and on his day off he will, again weather permitting, tag along leading Tweenie behind me and Patches for a good two and a half hour ride. She's not a pony that loses fitness easily. She parades about the field too much for that.
Chex
Well-Known Member
My vet says this too. I think Chex arthritis is so bad this year because he's barely been ridden since I broke my leg in the summer. Vet said better to ride 6 days a week than 3 days a week for example. If only there was infinite light and time!
Patches
Well-Known Member
That's very interesting Halfpass.
I remember worrying abut sacro-iliac problems before I had Patches. Vetting vet didn't seem to think she had any issues around her pelvis area though. Her action didn't change at all on a relatively high dose of bute so I really am sceptical about whether I truly believe her gait is the way it is as a reaction to pain.
Worth mentioning it to the new vet though. Patches is happy to school in all three paces, perform some basic lateral moves and jump. She doesn't buck, nap or rear either. Is your horse the same?
Mind you, some days she surprises me. Today she strolled down a rather steep hill like it wasn't there. Practically jogged down it! Other days she just has to walk down almost sideways. Strange girl!
I remember worrying abut sacro-iliac problems before I had Patches. Vetting vet didn't seem to think she had any issues around her pelvis area though. Her action didn't change at all on a relatively high dose of bute so I really am sceptical about whether I truly believe her gait is the way it is as a reaction to pain.
Worth mentioning it to the new vet though. Patches is happy to school in all three paces, perform some basic lateral moves and jump. She doesn't buck, nap or rear either. Is your horse the same?
Mind you, some days she surprises me. Today she strolled down a rather steep hill like it wasn't there. Practically jogged down it! Other days she just has to walk down almost sideways. Strange girl!
Tia
Well-Known Member
Oh no I don't think anything can stop arthritis occuring, however I do think that exercise can slow down the severity of it.
Patches
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
. Vet said better to ride 6 days a week than 3 days a week for example. If only there was infinite light and time!
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh I totally agree there!!!!! Not only do I need a nice Olympic sized manège, I also need floodlights!
Ooooo....better still. I need an indoor! lol
Sorry to hear you broke your leg. I tore ligaments in my ankle at the beginning of September and I'm still struggling now, especially with rising trot. Getting a bit stronger now though...well I don't cry anymore after a few strides!
. Vet said better to ride 6 days a week than 3 days a week for example. If only there was infinite light and time!
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh I totally agree there!!!!! Not only do I need a nice Olympic sized manège, I also need floodlights!
Ooooo....better still. I need an indoor! lol
Sorry to hear you broke your leg. I tore ligaments in my ankle at the beginning of September and I'm still struggling now, especially with rising trot. Getting a bit stronger now though...well I don't cry anymore after a few strides!
Patches
Well-Known Member
Yup, that's what I thought you meant but wanted to clarify that in my reply just in case someone reading thought we were implying that people who only ride once or twice a week will cause their horse's to have arthritis in the future
I know daily gentle exercise helps my mum with her arthritis but there is a line she can cross and do too much which actually makes her feel worse the next day.
I know daily gentle exercise helps my mum with her arthritis but there is a line she can cross and do too much which actually makes her feel worse the next day.
GTs
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
However, this supplement may come under your generic "waste of money" thesis, but it's also a prescription only supplement!
[/ QUOTE ]
If it is prescription it is regulated, which adds a lot of credibility. I would happily use prescription suppliments.
However, this supplement may come under your generic "waste of money" thesis, but it's also a prescription only supplement!
[/ QUOTE ]
If it is prescription it is regulated, which adds a lot of credibility. I would happily use prescription suppliments.
conniegirl
Well-Known Member
only one of my 2 24 yearold ponies gets a joint supliment and thats because he has artheritis in his back leg. the other is perfectly fine without.
Patches
Well-Known Member
Oooo...there you go then. Perhaps it's not such a bad thing after all. She certainly scooted out on the hack today. I'm wondering if 1 1/2 small scoops of powder actually contain rocket fuel!
(actually...it'll be the fact she was re-clipped on Thursday afternoon that made her scoot about today. Bless I love her when she's fresh, so forward!)
(actually...it'll be the fact she was re-clipped on Thursday afternoon that made her scoot about today. Bless I love her when she's fresh, so forward!)
GTs
Well-Known Member
I think she was due for another clipping - what had it been - over a week!!