orsemad
Well-Known Member
Need to put my boy on a joint supplement. What have you used and what do you think works best? any opinions welcomed?!
joint supplements
- Thread starter orsemad
- Start date
Nickijem
Well-Known Member
My horse had clicking knees so put him on Glucosamine. After about 4 months the clicking seems to have just about stopped - I just occasionally hear them when he has been standing still for a long time.
smirnoff_ice
Well-Known Member
We've been using Grand Meadows Grand Flex for 6 months and LOVE it! Used a few other supplements before this, including Corta Flex, but Grand Flex has by far shown the biggest improvement. Even our vet noticed how much better she's striding out.
UK retailer: http://www.horsespecialities.co.uk/shop/product_info.php?products_id=54
£45 for 60 servings
£100 for 160 servings
£180 for 320 servings
Official site: http://store.grandmeadows.com/grandflex.html
UK retailer: http://www.horsespecialities.co.uk/shop/product_info.php?products_id=54
£45 for 60 servings
£100 for 160 servings
£180 for 320 servings
Official site: http://store.grandmeadows.com/grandflex.html
henryhorn
Well-Known Member
We always used Cortaflex until persuaded to try Multiplex HA, within a week the horse's paces had improved.
As he wasn't going to compete this year we took him off it, only to find he went unlevel , so last week he started having it again and sure enough, he's dead sound and free moving again.
It's made by Science with Nature and is a reasonably priced supplement.
As he wasn't going to compete this year we took him off it, only to find he went unlevel , so last week he started having it again and sure enough, he's dead sound and free moving again.
It's made by Science with Nature and is a reasonably priced supplement.
merlinsquest
Well-Known Member
I use Easy Joint from Equiform Nutrition and its brill.... Cortaflex didnt help merlin but the Easy Joint has done him proud....
SAL66
Well-Known Member
I use Glucosamine from equine america, he had clicky joints but not any more, he certainly moves alot freer and there is no stiffness in the mornings, it was a lot cheaper than other supplements, but it appears to have worked for me.
Natassia
Well-Known Member
I use one from the vets with everything in it (glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, antioxidants) - expensive but cheaper than buying everything separately and its excellent, my horse has been on it for nearly 2 months and he's feeling really good - it shows!
charliecrisps
Well-Known Member
I have used cortaflex for about 4 years but recently (6 weeks ago) changed to blue chip dynamic and he is going so much better!
SunshineTallulah
Well-Known Member
I use Riaflex 50:50 but am contemplating Grand Meadows.
monstermunch
Well-Known Member
NAF superflex - 800g £60 provides 4.3g Glucosamine, 4.6g MSM, and 150mg Chondroitin daily. Lasts 60 days but dose is extremely low so what are you paying for?
Cortaflex HA - 908g £50 (price varies) compounds amounts are unspecified for a very good reason. On analysis levels are extremely low, at 200 x weaker than the highest spec product on this list. Lasts 30 days
Riaflex Complete 700g £42 provides 10g Glucosamine, 10g MSM, and 4g Chondroitin daily. No bulking agents. Lasts 30 days. All levels are extremely high and will therefore have a bigger impact
Riaflex 50:50 700g £26 provides 10g MSM, and 10g Glucosamine daily. Lasts 30 days. Levels are extremely high and will have a bigger impact
Grand meadows Grand flex 1.8lbs £22 provides 5g Glucosamine and a lot of unnecessary bulking agents daily. Lasts 30 days. The appropriate dose would be 10g so if you doubled it it would only last 15 days making it an expensive option.
Grand Meadows Grand HA synergy 5lbs £45 provides 5g glucosamine, 300mg Chondroitin, 150mg HA, 10g MSM. Lasts 40 days. Very expensive for ineffective levels of Glucosamine, HA, and Chondroitin.
Synequin 1kg £100-150 provides 7.5g Glucosamine and 3g Chondroitin. Lasts 60 days. Good levels of Chondroitin. No MSM and extremely expensive.
If you do a basic comparison of products it becomes quite clear on what are value for money. Those that don't specify the amount of compound in a daily dose is usually because it is shockingly low. The product that provides the highest daily dose regardless of price or brand is the best product to use. Un-significant levels of a compound will have little or no effect on your horses joints.
On comparison of endless products Riaflex Complete remains the highest spec triple supplement on the market for the lowest price per day for an exceptionally high dose.
If budget is an issue steer towards a product that does not contain Chondroitin as this is the very expensive compound and boosts the price of a product up. The most important thing is that your horse gets the correct daily dose not how many compounds you feed. It is far more beneficial to feed just two compounds, such as Glucosamine and MSM, at a high dose level than all three, such as Chondroitin, MSM, and Glucosamine, at a low level.
Have a look around and check your daily dose levels before buying. Don't be fooled by clever marketing.
Hope this is of use.
Cortaflex HA - 908g £50 (price varies) compounds amounts are unspecified for a very good reason. On analysis levels are extremely low, at 200 x weaker than the highest spec product on this list. Lasts 30 days
Riaflex Complete 700g £42 provides 10g Glucosamine, 10g MSM, and 4g Chondroitin daily. No bulking agents. Lasts 30 days. All levels are extremely high and will therefore have a bigger impact
Riaflex 50:50 700g £26 provides 10g MSM, and 10g Glucosamine daily. Lasts 30 days. Levels are extremely high and will have a bigger impact
Grand meadows Grand flex 1.8lbs £22 provides 5g Glucosamine and a lot of unnecessary bulking agents daily. Lasts 30 days. The appropriate dose would be 10g so if you doubled it it would only last 15 days making it an expensive option.
Grand Meadows Grand HA synergy 5lbs £45 provides 5g glucosamine, 300mg Chondroitin, 150mg HA, 10g MSM. Lasts 40 days. Very expensive for ineffective levels of Glucosamine, HA, and Chondroitin.
Synequin 1kg £100-150 provides 7.5g Glucosamine and 3g Chondroitin. Lasts 60 days. Good levels of Chondroitin. No MSM and extremely expensive.
If you do a basic comparison of products it becomes quite clear on what are value for money. Those that don't specify the amount of compound in a daily dose is usually because it is shockingly low. The product that provides the highest daily dose regardless of price or brand is the best product to use. Un-significant levels of a compound will have little or no effect on your horses joints.
On comparison of endless products Riaflex Complete remains the highest spec triple supplement on the market for the lowest price per day for an exceptionally high dose.
If budget is an issue steer towards a product that does not contain Chondroitin as this is the very expensive compound and boosts the price of a product up. The most important thing is that your horse gets the correct daily dose not how many compounds you feed. It is far more beneficial to feed just two compounds, such as Glucosamine and MSM, at a high dose level than all three, such as Chondroitin, MSM, and Glucosamine, at a low level.
Have a look around and check your daily dose levels before buying. Don't be fooled by clever marketing.
Hope this is of use.
wishfulthinking
Well-Known Member
Fabulous reply monstermunch, thank you for that information.
Paddywhack
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Need to put my boy on a joint supplement. What have you used and what do you think works best? any opinions welcomed?!
[/ QUOTE ]
1 of my horses is on Grand Meadow grand flex for severe stiffness and clicking joints and its fantastic stuff !!!
Its expensive to buy but gets cheaper in the long run ,if money is an issue you can go in on www.healthspan.co.uk and and get Green Lip Mussell or Glucosomine i got my other horse on Aloe Vera Tablets and G.L.M capsules as a maintanence and she is doing fantastic on it
Need to put my boy on a joint supplement. What have you used and what do you think works best? any opinions welcomed?!
[/ QUOTE ]
1 of my horses is on Grand Meadow grand flex for severe stiffness and clicking joints and its fantastic stuff !!!
Its expensive to buy but gets cheaper in the long run ,if money is an issue you can go in on www.healthspan.co.uk and and get Green Lip Mussell or Glucosomine i got my other horse on Aloe Vera Tablets and G.L.M capsules as a maintanence and she is doing fantastic on it
ajf
Well-Known Member
Why does he 'need' to have a joint supplement? If its on advice from vet/physo etc, then they should have told u what substances need to be included in the supplement, as they all contain different things! just look at list of ingredients. if its just because u want to help prevent any damage then go for a broad range supplement. hope this makes a bit of sense!!!
magic14339
Well-Known Member
Hi
Very interesting the comparisons you have put up however there is much scientific evidence out there that states the optimum levels of glucosamine to be 5000mg per day. Many products have extremely high levels of MSM, yucca etc which are known for their antiinflammatory properties. This enables a product to possibly alleviate symptoms whilst making a limited difference to the joint itself. You say there are insufficient levels in the grand meadows supplements. However I use these on my horse and have been thrilled with the results. I'll give you an example of the levels they use. In the feedmark HA product there is I think 37.5mg of HA, grand meadows has 50mg in their human product!! and about 150 - 200 in the horse products. The HA they use is the only form that is proven to be bioavailable to the horse. As for the cofactors included... the basis of a joint supplement has been covered by the key ingredients of glucosamine, msm etc etc however it is sooo important to have a sulphur source to enable the glucosamine to get through(depending which form of glucosamine is used) so this is what some of the cofactors maximise. As for the other ingredients it is these which make the extra difference and differentiate this product from all the rest out there. I agree there are some other good products out there however I have always found Grand meadows to be extremely open about how they manufacture their supplements and the exact quantities which are contained. They will also answer any questions you may have in an educated manner using factual evidence. Has anyone else come across a company which is as open? I lost my faith in supplements years ago I was thoroughly convinced that they were more for the benefit of the owner than the horse. I do strongly feel there are many companies which exploit this to make money. and thoroughly urge anyone interested in using any manufacturer to ring up ask the questions pick their brains, compare the competition and gain as many opinions as possible before deciding on which product they use.
Apologies for the long reply as you can tell very opinionated on this subject!
Very interesting the comparisons you have put up however there is much scientific evidence out there that states the optimum levels of glucosamine to be 5000mg per day. Many products have extremely high levels of MSM, yucca etc which are known for their antiinflammatory properties. This enables a product to possibly alleviate symptoms whilst making a limited difference to the joint itself. You say there are insufficient levels in the grand meadows supplements. However I use these on my horse and have been thrilled with the results. I'll give you an example of the levels they use. In the feedmark HA product there is I think 37.5mg of HA, grand meadows has 50mg in their human product!! and about 150 - 200 in the horse products. The HA they use is the only form that is proven to be bioavailable to the horse. As for the cofactors included... the basis of a joint supplement has been covered by the key ingredients of glucosamine, msm etc etc however it is sooo important to have a sulphur source to enable the glucosamine to get through(depending which form of glucosamine is used) so this is what some of the cofactors maximise. As for the other ingredients it is these which make the extra difference and differentiate this product from all the rest out there. I agree there are some other good products out there however I have always found Grand meadows to be extremely open about how they manufacture their supplements and the exact quantities which are contained. They will also answer any questions you may have in an educated manner using factual evidence. Has anyone else come across a company which is as open? I lost my faith in supplements years ago I was thoroughly convinced that they were more for the benefit of the owner than the horse. I do strongly feel there are many companies which exploit this to make money. and thoroughly urge anyone interested in using any manufacturer to ring up ask the questions pick their brains, compare the competition and gain as many opinions as possible before deciding on which product they use.
Apologies for the long reply as you can tell very opinionated on this subject!
ickelshadow
Well-Known Member
flexijoint from equimins - thoroughly recommend it
my 28 year old (see pictures below) is amazing on it
jumping 2'9" a few weeks ago with scope to burn, happily still manages lateral work etc
£45 lasts 100 days for 14.2hh pony
£45 lasts 50-60 days for over 16.2hh
really broad spec of ingredients
£45 lasts 100 days for 14.2hh pony
£45 lasts 50-60 days for over 16.2hh
really broad spec of ingredients
MaverickMD
Well-Known Member
No one use Dream Mover by Herbal Wise then - a herbal product, manufactured in Southern Ireland?
or
Global Herbs - Move Free?
or
Global Herbs - Move Free?
monstermunch
Well-Known Member
My post was not meant to offend anyone just to help people to understand what to look for.
You could argue all day with endless people on what product works and doesn't. in the grand scheme of things it is irelevant and facts speak for themselves.
All people need to do is to compare and research each product to ensure they know exactly what they are buying, and more importantly to ensure it provides the correct daily dose rate that a horse would require in order to have a significant impact.
5000mg is undoubtedly not a high enough dose rate for a 500kg horse especially not one who has existing or serious joint conditions. This is backed by stacks of scientific evidence which far out weighs evidence for suggestion of lower levels.
Glucosamine, Chondroitin, and MSM can be extremely effective and will have a huge impact on a horse but only if fed at the correct levels.
I know of countless horses some of whom had been lame for years who were on leading brand joint supplements assuming they must be doing something good. When changed to another brand with compound levels that far exceeded the product they had been using, there horses came sound. There was only one reason for this and that is that the product had exceptionally high levels of active compound in it. This particualr product has had such phenominal success that I now know of several vets who reccomend it to all there horses with serious joint conditions, and indeed feed it to their own. this only highlights that practical results speak for themselves regadless of science.
HA is indeed an extremely beneficial compound but again only if administered in the correct way and at high enough levels. The facts behind it are that it is extremely beneficial when injected directly into the joints at high concentrations. When fed orally most of the benefits are lost especially when you consider that it should also be fed at the same levels as Glucosamine in order to have an effect , which is 10,000mg a day. Given that every product that uses this massively underdoses by amounts that would leave the compound having little or most probably no effect on the horse, I wouldn't even consider this as a selling point. It is merely a marketing ploy and everyone is jumping on the band waggon. The cost of HA is astronomical and so to feed at the correct levels is unrealistic which is why companies include only token gesture amounts.
A lot of companies are indeed not honest about there products, and as wrong as it is it means the hard ground work is left to us the owners. Yes I know of 1 company who will provide qualified and honest advice, even if that means not reccomending there own products, and they are happy to provide absolutely any information you require, which is all on there website anyway. They provide as much information as they can to educate the horse owner and help them understand what they should be looking for. There is hope yet.
Most importantly everyones opinions differ and what works for one horse may not for another, but if you uderstand what you should be looking for and are a little more educated in the use of particualr compounds you are half way there to doing the best by your horse and getting the best for your money.
You could argue all day with endless people on what product works and doesn't. in the grand scheme of things it is irelevant and facts speak for themselves.
All people need to do is to compare and research each product to ensure they know exactly what they are buying, and more importantly to ensure it provides the correct daily dose rate that a horse would require in order to have a significant impact.
5000mg is undoubtedly not a high enough dose rate for a 500kg horse especially not one who has existing or serious joint conditions. This is backed by stacks of scientific evidence which far out weighs evidence for suggestion of lower levels.
Glucosamine, Chondroitin, and MSM can be extremely effective and will have a huge impact on a horse but only if fed at the correct levels.
I know of countless horses some of whom had been lame for years who were on leading brand joint supplements assuming they must be doing something good. When changed to another brand with compound levels that far exceeded the product they had been using, there horses came sound. There was only one reason for this and that is that the product had exceptionally high levels of active compound in it. This particualr product has had such phenominal success that I now know of several vets who reccomend it to all there horses with serious joint conditions, and indeed feed it to their own. this only highlights that practical results speak for themselves regadless of science.
HA is indeed an extremely beneficial compound but again only if administered in the correct way and at high enough levels. The facts behind it are that it is extremely beneficial when injected directly into the joints at high concentrations. When fed orally most of the benefits are lost especially when you consider that it should also be fed at the same levels as Glucosamine in order to have an effect , which is 10,000mg a day. Given that every product that uses this massively underdoses by amounts that would leave the compound having little or most probably no effect on the horse, I wouldn't even consider this as a selling point. It is merely a marketing ploy and everyone is jumping on the band waggon. The cost of HA is astronomical and so to feed at the correct levels is unrealistic which is why companies include only token gesture amounts.
A lot of companies are indeed not honest about there products, and as wrong as it is it means the hard ground work is left to us the owners. Yes I know of 1 company who will provide qualified and honest advice, even if that means not reccomending there own products, and they are happy to provide absolutely any information you require, which is all on there website anyway. They provide as much information as they can to educate the horse owner and help them understand what they should be looking for. There is hope yet.
Most importantly everyones opinions differ and what works for one horse may not for another, but if you uderstand what you should be looking for and are a little more educated in the use of particualr compounds you are half way there to doing the best by your horse and getting the best for your money.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
I have to say that I would disagree with riaflex being the best value for money on the market (all though I do not disagree the specification is good)
A forum reader highlighted this product to me which under the current buy 2 get 1 free offer is far better value for money than riaflex
http://www.aviform.co.uk/Store/Equine-Products/Joint-Care/SUPPLEAZE-GOLD-Ultimate-Equine-Joint-Care
In addition to this monstermunch, I would be interested to hear your thoughts on claims that the amount of bioavailable glucosamine and chondroitin is very low and hence some companies market their product as selling key isolates (hence the label spec looks very low or even completely different) in order to increase bioavailability
A forum reader highlighted this product to me which under the current buy 2 get 1 free offer is far better value for money than riaflex
http://www.aviform.co.uk/Store/Equine-Products/Joint-Care/SUPPLEAZE-GOLD-Ultimate-Equine-Joint-Care
In addition to this monstermunch, I would be interested to hear your thoughts on claims that the amount of bioavailable glucosamine and chondroitin is very low and hence some companies market their product as selling key isolates (hence the label spec looks very low or even completely different) in order to increase bioavailability