Judges..........Oh dear!!!

[Toby_Zaphod]

I was at SCOPE last week & whilst watching at a particular ring I saw so many judge’s errors. Announcing a clear round while the arena party is putting a pole back up? Giving 4 faults when someone had 8 or more? Some riders were not starting to jump within the 45 second time limit after the bell & not being penalized for it. It was a disgrace.

I was standing near the judge’s box & pointed out a couple of errors to them & they did announce corrections to the scores. Their attitude to being corrected was not good, they really talked down to me. Why didn’t they see the faults? They are paid to be there, there are 3 of them in the box, surely at least one of them should be concentrating & watching the rounds? Riders have qualified for that championship, they have paid a considerable amount to be there, travelled from all over the country to jump in a ring where the judges couldn’t seem to be bothered. Their poor decisions could really have affected the outcome of the classes & allowed people to qualify who shouldn’t have.

I’ve seen many flawed decisions at various venues but at a prestigious championship only the best of judges should be used………rant over

 

[MrsMozart]

A word with the organizers?

I agree - they're there to do a job a and should be doing it.

 

[missparis]

Oh dear, that sounds pretty horrific for a competition of that level. Maybe worth writing a letter to the BS stating what happened? As an owner & competitor, I would not be happy with the below events.

 

[viewfromahill]

Stafford or Challenge ring??! Yesterday the most dreadful judging I have ever experienced, 4f instead of 8 or even 12, competitors allowed to continue when they were elim, wrong riders....we actually could have jumped twice and they wouldnt have noticed! And YES it did affect the result and worst still the winner didnt even turn up for the presentation....and like you when errors were pointed out the judge was very aggressive - appalling at a championship show that every class at the lowest level cost not far short of £200 for entry and stable!!!

 

[Vicki_Krystal]

Its always been the same at Scope.

I personally dont think it helps having so many entries. 100+ entries, classes lasting near on 4 hours, then a quick break to alter the course before another 4 hour barrage of jumping.

I am not defending the judges at all - they are paid to be there, and paid to do their job to the best of their ability.

 

[jess_asterix]

The exact reason so many people hate scope and don't even bother going.

My most local championship show and I refuse to go!

It's awful there. Anyway how did Laura get on in the Adventurer? I heard about her win on the first day so a very well done to them

 

[tinap]

& that's why we didn't Chase qualifiers to get there!! Been once & didn't think much too it - much prefer blue chip champs instead

 

[dieseldog]

Are they paid though? I don't think they are. They get free food, but I thought that was all, maybe mileage?

The course builders do get paid.

 

[lucemoose]

they are paid- am training to be a BS official. Were they not paying attention? Too old? Too inexperienced? Their names should be on the schedule so if notified the BS can take some action or at least be aware they have sub standard judges

 

[susie2193]

Just to answer a few questions.

"Some riders were not starting to jump within the 45 second time limit after the bell & not being penalized for it."

Not sure what you mean by that. The rule is that is you don't start within the 45 seconds your time starts so you end up with time faults at the end. The timing equipment automatically swaps to start timing the round when the 45 seconds runs out OR you go through the start.

Most judges won't go to scope because of the way they are treated, very long classes and days.

I don't know what the policy is at Scope, but most shows pay the judges and feed them during the day but no mileage or overnight expenses. As I say that may be different at scope.

"wrong riders....we actually could have jumped twice and they wouldnt have noticed!"

Don't blame the judges for not knowing who a competitor is, that is down to the collecting ring steward to tell them who is in the ring. With over a hundred compeitors in a class the judges can't remember who has jumped, but it should be recorded on the computer, so if someone comes in twice they will be marked as already jumped.

"worst still the winner didnt even turn up for the presentation"

Not down to the judges if the competitors are so rude they don't turn up, (where they jumping in another ring?), down to the organisers to enforce that rule and withold prize money if they don't believe there was a good reason.

 

[Merlotmonster]

Judges get £50 a day expenses. They don't get paid! For a 12 hour day it's a pittance. They are giving up their free time so people can do the sport. Errors will always be made as they are only human. I suggest you sit in a judges box for 12 hours then you will realise how easy it is to miss things. And yes I am a judge so know exactly what it's like, trying to find out who a competitor is, when they can't get the basics like what number they are right! You can't always be watching 100% of the time.

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

Judges get £50 a day expenses. They don't get paid! For a 12 hour day it's a pittance. They are giving up their free time so people can do the sport. Errors will always be made as they are only human. I suggest you sit in a judges box for 12 hours then you will realise how easy it is to miss things. And yes I am a judge so know exactly what it's like, trying to find out who a competitor is, when they can't get the basics like what number they are right! You can't always be watching 100% of the time.

There were 3 sets of eyes in the box & the arena party were putting up the knocked down poles.....and they couldn't see that? If they can't do the job then they shouldn't be judges. The competitors have been through qualifiers to get there. Some have travelled from Scotland, Isle of Wight, Cornwall etc to be there & paid high fees to enter the classes. The judging should be professional enough to pick up on the errors mentioned. Additionally their attitude when an error is pointed out to them was awful!.

 

[shark1]

Judges get £50 a day expenses. They don't get paid! For a 12 hour day it's a pittance. They are giving up their free time so people can do the sport. Errors will always be made as they are only human. I suggest you sit in a judges box for 12 hours then you will realise how easy it is to miss things. And yes I am a judge so know exactly what it's like, trying to find out who a competitor is, when they can't get the basics like what number they are right! You can't always be watching 100% of the time.

exactly, 50 quid a day , its laughable really.

Scope are also notorious for not treating their judges / coursebuilders very well at all, so im not surprised, I expect they're bloody tired and its one hell of a long week.

And i bet all 'errors' were sorted one way or another so the correct results were given out for the placings.

 

[kizzywiz]

Haven't competed at Scope so can't comment, but my only experiences of BS judges have been good ones, was having a sticky time at Wales & West & the judge kindly let me have the ring for schooling for 5 minutes before the classes began one morning after I had withdrawn from my classes that day. This year at the amateur show at Wales it was very busy & the judges were great, really efficient & sounding just as enthusiastic at the end of their very long days as they did at the beginning. As someone said, they give up their time so that we can enjoy our sport & are mostly helpful & encouraging while staying professional & within the rules, if they really only do get £50 per day, then we should value their time even more.

 

[susie2193]

Haven't competed at Scope so can't comment, but my only experiences of BS judges have been good ones, was having a sticky time at Wales & West & the judge kindly let me have the ring for schooling for 5 minutes before the classes began one morning after I had withdrawn from my classes that day. This year at the amateur show at Wales it was very busy & the judges were great, really efficient & sounding just as enthusiastic at the end of their very long days as they did at the beginning. As someone said, they give up their time so that we can enjoy our sport & are mostly helpful & encouraging while staying professional & within the rules, if they really only do get £50 per day, then we should value their time even more.

Thank you kizzywiz, It's nice to know we're appreciated. I can confirm that £50/day is what BS recommend to show centres that they pay their judges !! for what are often 12 hour days.

Well said Merlotmonster, agree 100%.

Toby_Zapod: - You have obviously never been in a judges box. 3 pairs of eyes yes, I commentator (not a judge), 1 on the timing and 1 writing. As Merlotmonster said 12 hours of concentration, usually having to eat lunch whilst judging as no room for breaks. In my experience mistakes are few and far between, usually happening because someone comes in the box to talk to the judges and distracts them. And believe you me the competitors can be extremly rude, again in the minority. Would you prefer that judges were paid a decent fee for the day, given breaks and entry fees increased accordingly to pay for them? and numbers in classes restriced to allow time for the breaks.

 

[viewfromahill]

Just to clarify Susie2193, the judges were communicating with the collecting ring steward....badly....they were told often they had the wrong rider/no but didnt correct it even though the steward who was working overtime kept telling them, keeping accurate records (that would be the writer) would make sure the judges knew who had jumped! And no the winner wasnt in another ring and YES it is up to the judges to enforce the RULES and withhold prize money/pass it down the line, and poor judges??? How about poor competitors who as previously stated have travelled up and down the country to qualify and paid alot of money to be there! Do they then deserve to be talked to rudely/aggressively and YES actually the result was affected and NOT corrected!!!!

 

[Merlotmonster]

You sound very bitter.. You have had one unfortunate experience I gather.. I wonder if the manner in which you approached the judges had any bearing on their reaction . I find behaviour breeds behaviour...

 

[highjinx]

Was the result wrong because you think the winner should have lost her first place for not turning up for prize giving?
I hear that rider went very early in the class that was two hours long and didn't even realise she had been placed because she didn't think her round was good enough. Should she really loose her prize

 

[highjinx]

Viewfromahill By any chance did you come second in that class or were placed as I understand that a competitor put in a complant to the organisers and this competitor was seen to be very rude and aggressive towards the judges. I would suggest that you spend a whole day in the judges box to find out what they have to deal with