Jumping distances at performance tests and stallion gradings.

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stolensilver

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I'm quite new to the whole breed show/ performance test scene but the few shows I've seen and others that I've seen on video have frequently got the wrong distances between the fences in the loose jumping. When questioned the people setting up the jumping lane say "the studbook gives the distances and we are within those guidelines" which as far as I can see translates into "tough!"

To me this is crazy. When you've watched a horse go through the grid and they have either had to bounce the first two fences because the distance is too short or (worse) had to put in 1 and a half strides before the oxer because the distance is too long surely there should be the ability to alter the distances so they are correct for an average horse stride? Or even better, set them correctly in the first place. This video is a classic example of wrong striding, the jumping starts at 8 minutes into the video.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=71XNmuaa3zw

What do you think? Has wrong striding affected you when you've taken your mare or stallion for their performance test? Should anything be done about it or is wrong striding just another way of testing a young horse's bravery? (Although I haven't seen any wrong strides at any German shows, just UK and US ones!)
 
the last grading i went to , they managed to completely bottle my 2yo colt with a ridiculous distance.
yes, it was a UK grading, and we actually got offered a reduced 'return price' to bring him back again, for the jumping section only, without me even asking! nice offer (!)
needless to say, lesson learnt, they will go in future at 4 undersaddle.
 
Most studbooks have a standard chute set up, which is published and known to all before the actual grading. I guess sometimes allowances have to be made for circumstances, such as a smaller arena, but generally the set up is standard and it's the responsibility to people bringing horses for grading to make sure they are comfortable with the distances.

You have to remember books are looking for a standardised product and for exceptional horses - they are not, technically speaking, training schemes. The idea is any horse that isn't suitable (i.e. fully capable of fulfilling the test requirements) will not be brought forward. It's also understood the helpers, either provided or coming with the entry, will know how to present the horse to the best of its ability and be familiar with how to free jump a horse properly.

Now, all that said . . .

I, personally, think there should be absolute standardisation, right down to a minimum distance out of the turn and the exact same set up for each horse (starting over the same jumps, going up by the same increments, having the same number of passes through the chute etc) with perhaps some flexibility if the judge feels a horse would benefit from another pass say, or the owner wants to stop before all the turns are used up.

I also think the helpers can make a HUGE difference. I've seen people put a horse off completely with one flick of a whip and I've seen other, well practised handlers, help a horse out with timing, impulsion etc. to produce a far better result than the horse might offer without interference. I suspect at least some of the bad results are more handler error than horse error but what do you do? It's generally considered "easier" to let people handle their own horses (rather than having "hired help" as most of the big inspections do - often people with experience free jumping hundreds, if not thousands of horses) and the judges can only assess what happens on the day.

The problem is what if some cope and some don't? The "big" books assume this is part of the test and whether or not a horse might do better on another day is irrelevant - they are attrition based systems with hundreds of candidates to choose from. (To be fair, the judges are often very experienced horsemen and genuinely want horses to show their best but have confidence that they systems in place for them serve this end.) It's much, much harder to set such standards in the UK and North America, where the "system" is a great deal less standardised.

But I think if a book says "this is what the grid will be" and that's what is presented on the day that's a fair question. If that isn't what is presented on the day then obviously, owners should question accordingly and point out they're being asked a test they have not prepared for.
 
I think the problem is that the book gives a range of distances, the extremes of which are wildly out. It did surprise me that the people setting the chute up didn't know how to stride out a simple one stride treble, but they didn't. When horse after horse struggled with the distance their defence was that the jumps had been set up within the parameters set up by the studbook.
 
tarrsteps, i completely agree with you. we need to know exactly what is required of our youngsters.
however, i would be VERY careful choosing a UK grading authority in the future!
and we did question the grid on the day. to no avail.
but then im a small young female. they did, however, change it at the request of the next man in who shall remain nameless but presents several stallions a year, and is obviously a 'name'!
actually, it wasnt a request. he told them point blank he wasnt jumping it.
 
Which is why I will not present anything under 4 yrs old & under saddle in the future. I accept that the judges are lookig for a scopey horse that within reason can jump from 'within' an area easily. I want youngsters to come in looking, & if necessary bascule out from a deep position ( once it has checkedthe fence out) I have had 2 x 3yr olds gelded that as 4yr olds under saddle are showing great potential. Never Ever again! Also these youngsters have the paperwork to back up there ability.
 
i have to agree i attended the Nov grading and was shocked when the did the loose jumping down the grid but decided to put a pole in front which really confused many and i thought it was a stupid idea causing many to get confused and a accident waiting to happen!!!
 
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i have to agree i attended the Nov grading and was shocked when the did the loose jumping down the grid but decided to put a pole in front which really confused many and i thought it was a stupid idea causing many to get confused and a accident waiting to happen!!!

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Sorry, being a bit dim here. What fence did they put a pole in front of? Sometimes if the horse is really green and/or rushing you can put a pole down a couple of strides in front of the first element -- or even make the first element a pole on the ground -- but anywhere else would be just plain dangerous and anyway by the time it got around to the final 3 go downs (usually the ones that are judged) the ground level pole will/should have disappeared.
 
it was just before the 1st fence i cant remember how many strides out it was i think it was one(i know it wasnt a ground line) all i know was ALOT of youngsters were getting confused,and i know that some people off the board were there,they should have seen it i thought it was a diasater waiting to happen and the pole should have been removed
 
Interesting. And a bit frightening. My only direct personal experiences (as a presenter, organiser, or a "chute helper") were with gradings and free jumping competitions in Canada and we always had one set grid which was measured by tape, not walked, just in case.

I do know other books have had similar troubles, too. A very knowledgeable friend sent me the set of jumping pics from one grading, which showed some truly terrifying jumping and the stallion that won it is, to be charitable, a very average jumper. If anything I think the grid favoured the ones that naturally did it wrong!

I also went to an auction where horses repeatedly crashed and burned in the chute, or ran like idiots to get through. Even after watching a number of good horses come to grief no one thought to even check if the distances were right, which amazed me. I don't know if it's just not knowing or what.

I do think people grossly underestimate how influential an experience like free jumping can be to a horse and how important the introduction of any skill is. You never have a second chance to make a first impression!

As an aside, I'm not a fan of putting placing poles down for free jumping - I think a tiny fence does a better job of getting the horse up in the air - but if I were, I'd use a plank rather than anything that could roll. I couldn't forgive myself if the horse didn't look down (which one can influence when longing or riding) and stood on the rail.

Many inspections/competitions/auctions use what we might consider very small areas to free jump, specifically so the horse stays contained and easy to control. Btw, has anyone seen the "cages" in use in some European inspections. They're basically flattened ovals (sort of pointy at the ends) with cage or rail sides and the inside fence lower than the outside. The horse is put in and sent around by the handler but the chute actually directs its momentum and path. Very cool.
 
cages are fantastic for loosejumping. i went to the KWPN UK grading last august and the jumping in the cage was very well handled. no horses lost confidence, many actually improved as the jumping went on! you could see the skill of the whips, and the whole process was very transparent and informative. their loosejumping grid is on the internet for all to see prior to the event, and measured properly.
 
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