PapaFrita
Well-Known Member
Doesn't one normally have a placing pole (I believe distance is 2.5m but I'm very tired and a bit brain dead at the mo) when jump schooling from trot. Especially when the fences get a bit big?
Jumping from trot- quick question re: placing pole
- Thread starter PapaFrita
- Start date
Toby_Zaphod
Well-Known Member
That sounds about right or possibly a little further away. We normally pace out three strides from the fence to placing pole.
chester1234
Well-Known Member
Lionel was doing it at 21ft last week
L x
L x
Gonetofrance
Well-Known Member
A placing pole at 21 feet.........
What were you jumping???
I do a place pole at 10 of my feet heel to toe, or nine if I'm wearing wellies, and then adapt it to what the horse needs. So it's about 9 feet.
What were you jumping???
I do a place pole at 10 of my feet heel to toe, or nine if I'm wearing wellies, and then adapt it to what the horse needs. So it's about 9 feet.
TableDancer
Well-Known Member
About 9 feet sounds right, LD was doing place pole to one stride of canter with Talavera last week, don't stress
FWIW they are useful but it's also useful to trot jump without sometimes. Matt RYan does loads of trotting to an upright, going up to 1.10-1.15 with experienced horses, and never uses a place pole.
FWIW they are useful but it's also useful to trot jump without sometimes. Matt RYan does loads of trotting to an upright, going up to 1.10-1.15 with experienced horses, and never uses a place pole.
Gonetofrance
Well-Known Member
I guessed that TD, lol, I realised she hadn't probably read the trot bit of the OP properly...........
Hope it didn't read as any more than a gentle giggle, no offense intended.......
Hope it didn't read as any more than a gentle giggle, no offense intended.......
walker1234
Well-Known Member
9 feet but you don't HAVE to have one at all.
PapaFrita
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
That sounds about right or possibly a little further away. We normally pace out three strides from the fence to placing pole.
[/ QUOTE ]
So around 9 feet? Quick check on Google says that's around 2.7m. Thanks
That sounds about right or possibly a little further away. We normally pace out three strides from the fence to placing pole.
[/ QUOTE ]
So around 9 feet? Quick check on Google says that's around 2.7m. Thanks
PapaFrita
Well-Known Member
Were you cantering in? What's 21ft in metres *goes to check on Google again* ... 6.4m
PapaFrita
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
About 9 feet sounds right, LD was doing place pole to one stride of canter with Talavera last week, don't stress
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't understand (sorry) placing pole at 9ft for canter as well as trot?
[ QUOTE ]
FWIW they are useful but it's also useful to trot jump without sometimes. Matt RYan does loads of trotting to an upright, going up to 1.10-1.15 with experienced horses, and never uses a place pole.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, that's what I was wondering. YO/instructor had me jumping around 1m with no placing pole. Antifaz was great but I had a B:TCH of a time working out where he would take off. He also instructed us to come in on the p:ddliest trot you can imagine which is very scary at 1m (poss a bit more)
About 9 feet sounds right, LD was doing place pole to one stride of canter with Talavera last week, don't stress
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't understand (sorry) placing pole at 9ft for canter as well as trot?
[ QUOTE ]
FWIW they are useful but it's also useful to trot jump without sometimes. Matt RYan does loads of trotting to an upright, going up to 1.10-1.15 with experienced horses, and never uses a place pole.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, that's what I was wondering. YO/instructor had me jumping around 1m with no placing pole. Antifaz was great but I had a B:TCH of a time working out where he would take off. He also instructed us to come in on the p:ddliest trot you can imagine which is very scary at 1m (poss a bit more)
PapaFrita
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
9 feet but you don't HAVE to have one at all.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, OK. Thanks
9 feet but you don't HAVE to have one at all.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, OK. Thanks
TableDancer
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand (sorry) placing pole at 9ft for canter as well as trot?
[/ QUOTE ]
No, sorry to confuse you, I was talking to GonetoFrance about Talavera's post saying 21 feet - just ignore it. 9 feet is for a trot approach.
[ QUOTE ]
Ah, that's what I was wondering. YO/instructor had me jumping around 1m with no placing pole. Antifaz was great but I had a B:TCH of a time working out where he would take off. He also instructed us to come in on the p:ddliest trot you can imagine which is very scary at 1m (poss a bit more)
[/ QUOTE ]
That is exactly the exercise Matt uses! The slower the trot the better, getting the horse as deep as possible so they really have to work both back end and front end in clearing it, really snapping up their shoulders. If they take off a stride early, he tells you there was too much energy in the trot and to slow down
I find it really scary too, I hate it especially when he puts the fence up quite big. At least when you go into canter, though, it feels really easy
I don't understand (sorry) placing pole at 9ft for canter as well as trot?
[/ QUOTE ]
No, sorry to confuse you, I was talking to GonetoFrance about Talavera's post saying 21 feet - just ignore it. 9 feet is for a trot approach.
[ QUOTE ]
Ah, that's what I was wondering. YO/instructor had me jumping around 1m with no placing pole. Antifaz was great but I had a B:TCH of a time working out where he would take off. He also instructed us to come in on the p:ddliest trot you can imagine which is very scary at 1m (poss a bit more)
[/ QUOTE ]
That is exactly the exercise Matt uses! The slower the trot the better, getting the horse as deep as possible so they really have to work both back end and front end in clearing it, really snapping up their shoulders. If they take off a stride early, he tells you there was too much energy in the trot and to slow down
PapaFrita
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
That is exactly the exercise Matt uses! The slower the trot the better, getting the horse as deep as possible so they really have to work both back end and front end in clearing it, really snapping up their shoulders. If they take off a stride early, he tells you there was too much energy in the trot and to slow down
I find it really scary too, I hate it especially when he puts the fence up quite big. At least when you go into canter, though, it feels really easy
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah it would seem Matt and YO have been chatting
It was VERY scary; I'm used to looking for a stride and I felt powerless and was dying to give A a squeeze (I did a few times and got a huge telling off!
) Have to say though, A did some lovely, lovely jumps
That is exactly the exercise Matt uses! The slower the trot the better, getting the horse as deep as possible so they really have to work both back end and front end in clearing it, really snapping up their shoulders. If they take off a stride early, he tells you there was too much energy in the trot and to slow down
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah it would seem Matt and YO have been chatting
It was VERY scary; I'm used to looking for a stride and I felt powerless and was dying to give A a squeeze (I did a few times and got a huge telling off!
Baydale
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Matt RYan does loads of trotting to an upright, going up to 1.10-1.15 with experienced horses, and never uses a place pole.
[/ QUOTE ]
I was doing that yesterday with the Huge One. Sometimes when their brains go to bits it's good to get them back and thinking about what they're doing before they canter again. Bloomin difficult to keep your cool and keep your position when they fluff it though.
Matt RYan does loads of trotting to an upright, going up to 1.10-1.15 with experienced horses, and never uses a place pole.
[/ QUOTE ]
I was doing that yesterday with the Huge One. Sometimes when their brains go to bits it's good to get them back and thinking about what they're doing before they canter again. Bloomin difficult to keep your cool and keep your position when they fluff it though.
punk
Well-Known Member
At a demo by Tim Stockdale a few years ago he made the following points
1. He never trains horses to jump from trot without a placing pole (or preferably a placing PLANK) because they cannot get their legs from trot in the right position to make a good jump.
2. The plank is better than a pole as it doesn't roll if the horse gets it wrong. It also gives them something more obvious to step over.
3. The plank is there so that they actually take a canter stride over it and therefore have their back legs positioned correctly for take-off
4. 9' for a small jump - and 10' for a big jump depending on size of horse or pony
NOT explained nearly as well as he did!! It made a lot of sense at the time!!
1. He never trains horses to jump from trot without a placing pole (or preferably a placing PLANK) because they cannot get their legs from trot in the right position to make a good jump.
2. The plank is better than a pole as it doesn't roll if the horse gets it wrong. It also gives them something more obvious to step over.
3. The plank is there so that they actually take a canter stride over it and therefore have their back legs positioned correctly for take-off
4. 9' for a small jump - and 10' for a big jump depending on size of horse or pony
NOT explained nearly as well as he did!! It made a lot of sense at the time!!
PapaFrita
Well-Known Member
Yes, I saw that as well, which is why I queried
TableDancer
Well-Known Member
Bless him, I can just imagine - bet he had his "I'm concentrating really hard Mum so don't get angry if I knock it, it's just there's a long way from my brain to my feet" expression on
I've been doing loads of polework with PP since clinic, don't know if it's helping him but at least I won't look like such a numpty next time we have to canter to a pole on the gournd
FWIW, though, it does certainly help his infantile behaviour - gives him something a bit more constructive to think about other than what excuse can he find to whip round and p**s off bucking
I've been doing loads of polework with PP since clinic, don't know if it's helping him but at least I won't look like such a numpty next time we have to canter to a pole on the gournd
Baydale
Well-Known Member
Indeed he did, and my expression was much the same as I was trying to keep my arms soft, hands forward, light seat, heel on take off - he and I were knackered from all that concentrating. Off showjumping shortly to practice....
Yep, excellent stuff to keep cheeky ponies' minds on the job.
It's good for your eye too, isn't it? I haven't missed half as much as I normally do.
Yep, excellent stuff to keep cheeky ponies' minds on the job.
chester1234
Well-Known Member
TD - Nope, we were still trotting over it
He told my mum 21ft, and we were doing short 1 canter strides and also still just trotting into the fence... See why I was terrified?!
He told my mum 21ft, and we were doing short 1 canter strides and also still just trotting into the fence... See why I was terrified?!
TableDancer
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
TD - Nope, we were still trotting over it
He told my mum 21ft, and we were doing short 1 canter strides and also still just trotting into the fence... See why I was terrified?!
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry Elf, I realised you had a trot approach to the pole, but was talking about the stride of canter after it. As far as the times you trotted all the way in, sounds to me like he wanted to prove to you that you and clever pony could jump the fence from trot (he would have assessed his scope/your nerve very expertly beforehand
) to improve your confidence, which it obviously has
When you approached it this way, the trot pole would have had little bearing on the jump at 21 feet - plenty of time for things to go awry between the pole and the fence
So this is more like having no place pole at all. Next time you have a lesson, ask LD and see what he says - let us know
ETA: And yes, I do see why you were terrified (see above) - I've never done it to an oxer but have been made to do it to a bigger upright and I hate it!!! Back in the Ice Age when I was based at a place called Waterstock (ask your Mum
) we were made to WALK into fences like this - hated that too!
TD - Nope, we were still trotting over it
He told my mum 21ft, and we were doing short 1 canter strides and also still just trotting into the fence... See why I was terrified?!
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry Elf, I realised you had a trot approach to the pole, but was talking about the stride of canter after it. As far as the times you trotted all the way in, sounds to me like he wanted to prove to you that you and clever pony could jump the fence from trot (he would have assessed his scope/your nerve very expertly beforehand
ETA: And yes, I do see why you were terrified (see above) - I've never done it to an oxer but have been made to do it to a bigger upright and I hate it!!! Back in the Ice Age when I was based at a place called Waterstock (ask your Mum
Baydale
Well-Known Member
Talavera I thought you said you were trotting over the pole and then fitting in one canter stride before the fence.
PF is talking about a placing pole being one non-jumping stride before the fence in that the horse goes over the pole in trot and takes off between the pole and the fence. Clear as mud?
Gamebird
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Back in the Ice Age when I was based at a place called Waterstock (ask your Mum
) we were made to WALK into fences like this - hated that too!
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow TD - you were at Waterstock?? I am totally and utterly in awe of you now
. Please, tell all. I want to bask in your reflected expertise!
(actually not being sarcastic at all but very sincere for a refreshing change
)
Back in the Ice Age when I was based at a place called Waterstock (ask your Mum
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow TD - you were at Waterstock?? I am totally and utterly in awe of you now
TableDancer
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Back in the Ice Age when I was based at a place called Waterstock (ask your Mum
) we were made to WALK into fences like this - hated that too!
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow TD - you were at Waterstock?? I am totally and utterly in awe of you now
. Please, tell all. I want to bask in your reflected expertise!
(actually not being sarcastic at all but very sincere for a refreshing change
)
[/ QUOTE ]
Now look GB I had you down as a nice, friendly type and you're in danger of spoiling it
And just because there was a lot of expertise at Waterstock doesn't mean any of it rubbed off on me (despite their best efforts
) Does mean I have lots of juicy (but rather ancient
) gossip on Yogi though
I'll need to be plied with loads of alcohol (worked a treat on Kenneth the other night
) then I'll tell all that I can remember, and make up some too if you like
[ QUOTE ]
Back in the Ice Age when I was based at a place called Waterstock (ask your Mum
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow TD - you were at Waterstock?? I am totally and utterly in awe of you now
[/ QUOTE ]
Now look GB I had you down as a nice, friendly type and you're in danger of spoiling it
SpottedCat
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Now look GB I had you down as a nice, friendly type and you're in danger of spoiling it
And just because there was a lot of expertise at Waterstock doesn't mean any of it rubbed off on me (despite their best efforts
) Does mean I have lots of juicy (but rather ancient
) gossip on Yogi though
I'll need to be plied with loads of alcohol (worked a treat on Kenneth the other night
) then I'll tell all that I can remember, and make up some too if you like
[/ QUOTE ]
In relation to the last sentence, I would like to point out NOW that anything she says about Yogi which involves me, is a conspiracy dreamt up by Yogi and perpetuated by TD and has no basis in truth whatsoever!!
It falls firmly into the 'make up some too' category!
Now look GB I had you down as a nice, friendly type and you're in danger of spoiling it
[/ QUOTE ]
In relation to the last sentence, I would like to point out NOW that anything she says about Yogi which involves me, is a conspiracy dreamt up by Yogi and perpetuated by TD and has no basis in truth whatsoever!!
SpottedCat
Well-Known Member
I have an actual jumping from trot question - I hate doing it and the horse has never been taught - how do I keep him in trot without killing the impulsion given that he will always put in a stride of canter if allowed to? (and sometimes when not allowed to!)
TableDancer
Well-Known Member
As far as I'm concerned, it's fine to kill the impulsion for the purposes of this exercise so be disciplined about making him stay in trot - think towards walk if you like. It's all about removing the forward impetus so they have to jump effectively from nothing, that makes them sit on their backsides to make the jump (rather than using their momentum) and, once the fence gets bigger, if you can get them really deep they really have to snap up their forelegs and shoulders too. It works them really really hard, and I wouldn't do it with a real baby. That's the exercise I have in mind and it sounds like that was what the original poster was doing too - obviously there are many other trot jumping exercises to work on other things so others may disagree with me. But as far as I'm concerned, kill away
PaddyMonty
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
In relation to the last sentence, I would like to point out NOW that anything she says about Yogi which involves me, is a conspiracy dreamt up by Yogi and perpetuated by TD and has no basis in truth whatsoever!!
It falls firmly into the 'make up some too' category!
[/ QUOTE ]
Me thinks the lady doth protest too much
In relation to the last sentence, I would like to point out NOW that anything she says about Yogi which involves me, is a conspiracy dreamt up by Yogi and perpetuated by TD and has no basis in truth whatsoever!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Me thinks the lady doth protest too much
PaddyMonty
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I have an actual jumping from trot question - I hate doing it and the horse has never been taught - how do I keep him in trot without killing the impulsion given that he will always put in a stride of canter if allowed to? (and sometimes when not allowed to!)
[/ QUOTE ]
Start with the jump on the ground so effectively just two widely spaced trot poles and work on the rythm.
Once this is established raise the jump pole just a few inches, re-establish rythm, raise again and so on until the approach is the norm rather than something strange.
No substitute for repetition
I have an actual jumping from trot question - I hate doing it and the horse has never been taught - how do I keep him in trot without killing the impulsion given that he will always put in a stride of canter if allowed to? (and sometimes when not allowed to!)
[/ QUOTE ]
Start with the jump on the ground so effectively just two widely spaced trot poles and work on the rythm.
Once this is established raise the jump pole just a few inches, re-establish rythm, raise again and so on until the approach is the norm rather than something strange.
No substitute for repetition
SpottedCat
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
As far as I'm concerned, it's fine to kill the impulsion for the purposes of this exercise so be disciplined about making him stay in trot - think towards walk if you like. It's all about removing the forward impetus so they have to jump effectively from nothing, that makes them sit on their backsides to make the jump (rather than using their momentum) and, once the fence gets bigger, if you can get them really deep they really have to snap up their forelegs and shoulders too. It works them really really hard, and I wouldn't do it with a real baby. That's the exercise I have in mind and it sounds like that was what the original poster was doing too - obviously there are many other trot jumping exercises to work on other things so others may disagree with me. But as far as I'm concerned, kill away
[/ QUOTE ]
But then I go for being mildly scared to properly fearful
I am not sure I am brave enough!
I see your point - when the pony has regained his bravery and i have beaten the stop out of him (only a virtual beating of course) then we will try this again. Right now he needs to remember forwards over the fence at all costs no matter what or bad bad things will happen to him. He is getting the message and was much better today - I think he is off to do the 2'6" and 2'9" at the weekend - how times have changed!
As far as I'm concerned, it's fine to kill the impulsion for the purposes of this exercise so be disciplined about making him stay in trot - think towards walk if you like. It's all about removing the forward impetus so they have to jump effectively from nothing, that makes them sit on their backsides to make the jump (rather than using their momentum) and, once the fence gets bigger, if you can get them really deep they really have to snap up their forelegs and shoulders too. It works them really really hard, and I wouldn't do it with a real baby. That's the exercise I have in mind and it sounds like that was what the original poster was doing too - obviously there are many other trot jumping exercises to work on other things so others may disagree with me. But as far as I'm concerned, kill away
[/ QUOTE ]
But then I go for being mildly scared to properly fearful
I see your point - when the pony has regained his bravery and i have beaten the stop out of him (only a virtual beating of course) then we will try this again. Right now he needs to remember forwards over the fence at all costs no matter what or bad bad things will happen to him. He is getting the message and was much better today - I think he is off to do the 2'6" and 2'9" at the weekend - how times have changed!
TableDancer
Well-Known Member
I agree with this, now is not the time with B