Jumping from walk - how??

[flyingfeet]

So after a suggestion on here, I tried jumping from walk this morning.

Cue pony destroying the jump as didn't really think it was worth jumping. So over a dinky one I had to slap him down the shoulder to remind him to jump.

It wasn't exactly satifactory as he clonked the poles and couldn't really jump higher than 50cm from a walk

So tips and help please!

 

[dieseldog]

Why do you want to jump from walk?

The lady that trains me says that you should only teach horses to jump from canter otherwise it encourages them to trot when they shouldn't and all distances are set up on canter strides.

She is a pure showjumper though - so I can see some benefit for eventers to do it. But walk?

 

[flyingfeet]

Suggestion on here that jumping from walk can help teach them to jump, as I am trying to fix a poor tuck and not sending shoulders forward:

 

[dieseldog]

Does he knock a lot of poles with his front legs, does he need to tuck his legs more? Spot never bends his front legs he just jumps higher.

I always thought steep crosses were good for this.

 

[TableDancer]

Hmmm, I'm one of the jumping from walk fans, as taught originally by Lars Sederholm who knows a thing or two about SJ

However, I'm embarassed to say I don't really have an answer to your question as it's never happened to me: I've had them try to rush, refuse, massively over-jump but never had one just ignore it and plough through.

My thoughts would be, perhaps it's TOO small for him as he jumps a decent size track doesn't he? He obviously needs to realise it's a jump

I would also make it solid-looking enough for him to take it seriously - use planks, blocks etc as necessary to back him off. Perhaps do it once or twice in trot to give him the idea, then come back to walk and approach in a good swinging walk. Once he's done it once or twice ok I would put it up - the idea is he has to work quite hard physically so it needs to go up to 3 foot-ish - more if he's scopey and athletic. We also go and canter over another fence, then come back to the walk one to keep them thinking forwards.

If he really doesn't get the idea then perhaps it's not for him but personslly I'd probably perseverre a bit longer - maybe if he can get the hang of it it will really help him

Let us know how it goes - I'd be interested to hear!

 

[poggio]

Ive never actually jumped from walk but an exercise that used to help one of mine was walk, trot & pop - walk to the fence, trot the last stride or two and pop. Could do this up to about 90cm-1m and into grids. He is quite difficult to ride to a fence and has poor technique in front, was always quite useful for him to do this. Also found grids of bounces, and really steep crosses as mentioned above really useful.

 

[mik]

It isnt easy to jump from walk and if you are hesitant, get left behind etc, you are NOT giving the horse an experience he would like to repeat. I also wonder why your trainer says from walk, is your horse rushing? stopping dead?? Walking into a drop etc is often a good idea on a novice horse, i guess to help we need more details of why you want to do it anyway.
Ok, a poor tuck, he seems lazy? I agree with the above, grids and crosses, there are loads and loads of great grid patterns to make him pick up his feet, also use a lot of long to short distances, like a stride to a bounce to a stride (jump higher) then a bounce, this will make him think about what he is doing, its rather like making a human run through tyres, look where he is putting his feet, (BUILD up grids very slowly, best if a friend can help on the ground) You can also spend some time working on shortening the canter and improving his hind leg activity, (cantering up and down hill, shortening and lengthening his strides) (lunging over raised trotting poles and then canter poles, caveletti). If you can, book a lesson with a decent showjumper and go to as many clinics as you can in you area, and ASK questions. Good luck.
By the way, I disagree really strongly with the second answer from Diesel Dpg and what her trainer says. I have always taught all our eventers and SHOWJUMPERS from trot. Cantering into fences is much harder than trotting as trot strides are short and easily varied to adapt to any stride distance, it is also far easier to approach with a young horse from trot as they have time to see where they are going and as long as the rider is riding forward positively, far less probability of a last minute abrupt refusal in trot. Oh there are so many reasons why you should include trot in the schooling of showjumpers. Please, please please go read a few training books.

 

[dieseldog]

[ QUOTE ]


By the way, I disagree really strongly with the second answer from Diesel Dpg and what her trainer says. I have always taught all our eventers and SHOWJUMPERS from trot. Cantering into fences is much harder than trotting as trot strides are short and easily varied to adapt to any stride distance, it is also far easier to approach with a young horse from trot as they have time to see where they are going and as long as the rider is riding forward positively, far less probability of a last minute abrupt refusal in trot. Oh there are so many reasons why you should include trot in the schooling of showjumpers. Please, please please go read a few training books.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know most people wouldn't agree with that

She never teaches trotting poles either, straight into canter poles. Her theory is brainwash them into thinking canter - they aren't allowed to trot - so they aren't tempted to break to trot in a class and should meet the fence OK.

 

[mik]

You've lost me? Whos is this trainer?

 

[Kal]

I use to walk into jumps with my coloured, he used to rush and was a bit dim.

I put one canter stride pole infront of the fence, so i'd walk up to the pole, canter one stride over it then the jump, so it was a bit like a bounce from a walk. I'm not very good at explaining though.

 

[poggio]

I think thats more a SJ view.... for XC its quite common and probably safer for them to break into trot if things arent quite right - always one foot on the floor then!! Cant remember who said it but was a regular commentator (most likely Lucinda Green) would quite often say 'If in doubt, Trot!' .. and you do see it even at 4* level quite often, horses are clever they can sort themselves out well enough if you leave them to it.

 

[TableDancer]

Seeing the responses and thinking about this some more I would add the following: 1) Personally I would be wary about walking then increasing the pace in front of the fence - this could cause all sorts of other problems if he gets the idea he is supposed to accelerate to his fences rather than keeping an even rhythm whatever pace he is in. 2) If he really isn't comfortable in walk, you could try a variation which Matt Ryan uses a lot which is to come in a very, very steady trot ie almost a jog - not allowed to get any faster close to the fence and not allowed to stand off - if he takes a stride out you have to slow down even more so he hasn't got the revs to stand off and has to get deep. Matt uses this exercise up to at least 1.10m (increasing size very slowly) - I HATE it but at least the fences look small when you start cantering them

3) mlk (is it - haven't got it in fron of me) is right, walk jumping is by no means easy for the rider so you do have to concentrate on staying in balance with the horse, which is good practice too

 

[daisycrazy]

I think a horse should be able and happy to jump from any pace - particularly if it is a scopey jumper.

Another exercise which helps with shoulders is six bounces in a row on a 20m circle - make sure the poles are fixed and no more than 1' to start off with. I start off going round the middle of the poles and then vary to the inside and to the outside to either make them really work the shoulders or stretch out. They really have to think and it makes them jump athletically in a good rhythm. I have also set up a zig zag (each jump joined to the next using same jump stand) such that the horse has to bounce through angles - that really gets them working mind and body!

Jumping at angles is quite useful for getting them to pick their knees up and work their shoulders, but won't work if you make it too easy. Have you tried V poles?

 

[flyingfeet]

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Please, please please go read a few training books.

[/ QUOTE ]
I got 6 Sj'ing books from christmas, but they all conflict!!!

Tim Stockdale says never jump from trot, so its not an unsual thing

I was trying something different and the only good thing was when I swapped back to jumping from a rythm in canter he seemed very relieved and was popping 1.10m

 

[Saratoga]

I've always taught a horse to jump from trot and then canter, cantering to a fence too early encourages rushing and running out if not balanced i think.

 

[TableDancer]

[ QUOTE ]
I think a horse should be able and happy to jump from any pace - particularly if it is a scopey jumper.

Another exercise which helps with shoulders is six bounces in a row on a 20m circle - make sure the poles are fixed and no more than 1' to start off with. I start off going round the middle of the poles and then vary to the inside and to the outside to either make them really work the shoulders or stretch out. They really have to think and it makes them jump athletically in a good rhythm. I have also set up a zig zag (each jump joined to the next using same jump stand) such that the horse has to bounce through angles - that really gets them working mind and body!



[/ QUOTE ]

These sound fun - rushes off to try them

 

[dieseldog]

[ QUOTE ]
You've lost me? Whos is this trainer?

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously someone no one else agrees with

Although she does train the Fredericks.

Pogio - I do think it is more of a pure show jumpers way of doing it, and as I said in my first post I can see some benefit for an eventer to jump from trot.

To upset people even more she also says you should never teach a showjumper a bounce - brainwash them into putting the right number of strides into a double from the start - never let them know that it is possible to do it any other way.

 

[mik]

great exercises daisycrazy. Also agree about the rushing comment from Table Dancer. Isnt it hard to find good texts on these issues, each of us has our own ways, each horse has its own ways, the key is to find the method that works for you and you horse, thats the hardest thing. Im afraid unless im there on the ground reading the horses reactions to each exercise i can't help much more. Try to find a good trainer and be careful.

 

[dieseldog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Please, please please go read a few training books.

[/ QUOTE ]
I got 6 Sj'ing books from christmas, but they all conflict!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that might have been aimed at me

 

[mik]

Re

Pogio - I do think it is more of a pure show jumpers way of doing it, and as I said in my first post I can see some benefit for an eventer to jump from trot.

To upset people even more she also says you should never teach a showjumper a bounce - brainwash them into putting the right number of strides into a double from the start - never let them know that it is possible to do it any other way.

Its part of the schooling process, I am not saying you should be trotting in the arena. I really dont like 'you should never' rules, im afraid it is essential, to my way of thinking, that you should be open minded about training each horse, and flexible in your approach. But hey, im old fashioned, the fredericks appear to use plenty of bounce training in their xc so i guess they wont miss it in their sj training.Whatever way you train, use common sense and enjoy yourself! Wish you the best of luck.

 

[mik]

hey diesel dog no, it wasnt, i was thinking of grid exercises, no offence meant AT ALL. Just love to discuss training.

 

[Bubblegum]

Lucinda Green teaches jump from walk on her clinics. She used barrels... so nice rounded jumps.
For those horses that didn't get it right... she pulled the barrels apart so horses could walk calmly through the middle. Then she put them back together and so on and so forth. All the horses soon got the hang of it.
Don't forget to put a pole either side of the barrel though... to prevent it sliding.

 

[flyingfeet]

Oh I've got lots of barrels - will try that next

DieselDog - its definitely hits them with the front - arguable whether its tucking or failure to jump high enough!

 

[Bossanova]

I am undecided about jumping from walk.
I have never needed to jump a fence from walk, xc or sj and I've never seen anyone jump a fence from walk.
From a standstill (cat-leap) maybe!!

 

[Weezy]

I went to a clinic YEARS ago (I was about 14, so 20 odd years ago LOL) by someone well respected (don't remember, but could well have been Lars) and there was a demo of a horse jumping out of walk on the lunge, over a HUGE fence - walked calmly up, jumped, walked away - I was gobsmacked. We were informed that this was a very useful exercise and to try it ourselves. I did try, and cannot say I ever achieved it with my horses, but they were all runts back then

As for doing it under saddle, I personally have never used it and can never see myself using it.

I tend to do all of my jump training in canter.

 

[FullLivery]

Richard Waygood spent a session making me jump from walk (although it might have been more to do with the fact I was'nt trusted to canter

)

 

[CrazyMare]

Ooh I love the jumping for walk exercise - really helps my mare! It does need to be a good size, they have to ping over it, my problem was when it was small for my sake, it had no effect on her, so when I bit my nerves about it, put it up it really worked.

Shes the hot type and it helped her calm down about the whole thing.

 

[humblepie]

Can't remember doing jumping from walk but have seen it done. Must admit I never used to do bounce exercises with my show jumping mare. First season she bounced a one stride double in a power & speed class and then one strided a two stride double in a jump off....very scary. Used to instead do short strided grids with lots of poles to encourage shortening. What we did with her (and it used to terrify me) and came about from a lesson with Andy Austin, was poles from the ground crossed into a v with the tips on the fence to get her in the air and boy did that work. Wouldn't recommend that though unless you have an instructor or training setting it up for you as always felt it could be dangerous if they got it wrong.

 

[KatB]

/\ are used regularly in SJin training

I use it on my boy quite alot

CWS, tbh I dont think jumping from walk will help you massively, it works on getting the horses confidence up, but IMO doesnt help technical ability much.... saying that over a decent height may get the horse more aware of his legs, but only if he is careful enough to want to leave it up in the first place

 

[kerilli]

i was taught the jumping-from-walk thing years ago, i love it, it really teaches them to use themselves if they're a bit fast and flat or dangly. using barrels is a good idea, that's what LG did in the clinic i attended. i usually do it over a normal x pole and then upright though. if the horse still rushes, halt 2 or 3 paces from the fence, calmly. sit there for a bit, switch the horse off. then calmly apply leg and ask him to go forward to fence, giving hugely with hands - this is important as they often over-jump out of walk and it's easy to get left behind, disastrously.... last thing you want is to punish them for going.
it was the making of the little chestnut in my siggy (far left) who had a naturally flat and rubbish jump... it taught her to use herself, lift her shoulders. she could walk to about a 3' upright, no probs. it teaches them that they can get in really close and really lift. saved my neck a few times xc i think.