Jumping help please

[Cash]

My gelding isn't the most careful jumper, and as he often gets in too deep, he gets out of a rhythm and then just carelessly knocks with a leg.. which is annoying

it seems to be mainly his backs that he hits poles with, but he often dangles his fronts, rather than 'snapping' (see below). I know i can't change his jumping style, but i'd really like to work on keeping a powerful rhythm (he often falls onto the forehand and runs, meaning we fall through corners and makes it easier for him to put in a sudden stop

) and not letting him get too deep to prevent 'dangly legs'

and last minute spooks. I've been doing what i can think of, but there's only so much gridwork you can do!!
I would be happy to just whack the jumps up to make him listen, but it doesn't really- just means even more motorbiking and more violent sudden stops..

Absolutely cr*p position in photo, it was a skinny, he put in an extra stride and i stupidly got in front.. another problem

We just don't seem to be improving very much

Thanks x

 

[KatB]

Ok, you've already identified the problem as him getting on the forehand and being unbalanced, this is flatwork, not jumping

How is he on the flat?

 

[Cash]

lol where to start?!
he can often be lazy (ie slow off the leg, but spurs solve this completely) but can quickly get strong in the hand and lean a bit. It's just getting him to use his back legs, as he was previously schooled to have a lot of action in the front end, to the point of being overbent. Once he is warmed up and working into the bridle from the back end he can be really great.
He is generally quite well balanced actually- but on the final corner before a jump, or on a course with lots of turns, just drops his shoulder to get there a bit quicker!
Thanks!

 

[Kenzo]

You mentioned that you have being doing some grid work...lots by the sounds of it, can you explain exactly what grid work you have been doing combined with what flat work you have been doing as well, what improvements have been made and what you feel has not made any difference, and how long you have been working on things, a bit more detail might help people to suggest some areas that you may need to concentrate on.
Have you had some jumping lessons to enable you both to establish what home work you need to doing at home?

 

[KatB]

The heavy in the hand to me suggests he isnt truely working infront of your leg and in balance...

Does he do canter to walk transitions? Can he canter a small circle, and can you varie the pace in the canter?

If you can keep him balanced into the fence, it will give him chance to be sharp infront... if he is flat, it suggests to me you are having to chase him in? How does he jump from trot?

 

[Cash]

Well, gridwork wise, i've been working on using a sequence such as a bounce, a stride to an upright then mabe two strides to an oxer, to make him think about where he is putting his legs and when lol, and to make sure our striding is more consistant and less erratic. They've been working well to sharpen him up a bit and work on rhythm- but obviously i don't want to overdo it.
Oops sorry- will elaborate

In our lessons, which i have every few weeks depending on funds, we mainly work on getting him sharper off the leg, but also listening to me when i ask him to slow down, using lots of transitions- an exercise my instructor often has me doing to warm up is: halt-walk 5 strides or so-trot 5-canter 5-trot 5- walk 5 halt. Does that make sense?

obviously with variations, so he doesn't start to anticipate!
I am happy in that, having worked with my instructor to improve over the past six months or so, as i said he is sharper off the leg and also can use his back end more- our flatwork is going pretty well at the moment, but it's transferring this to help our jumping that i think is the main problem. I would really just like him more up of the forehand and as in front of my leg as possible (but without increased speed if that makes sense?)on the approach, and to land and continue in a similar rhythm. All of this is (impulsion without speed, off the forehand, rhythm etc) is ultimately, according to my instructor, meant to lead to an improvement in last-minute stops and runouts.
So as you've probably gathered from above, i do have a great instructor, but due to it being the holidays soon, i'm not really going to have spare cash for a lesson, so would like some ideas just for my schooling.
Does any of that make sense? Do say if i haven't answered questions properly, or missed something you asked

 

[Cash]

Right KatB, ready for another long winded reply?

As i said, i do sometimes struggle to keep him in front of my leg(particularly when there's other people in the arena!) - but he is normally fine and getting better all the time.
Canter to walks are ok, and small circles fine- and yes can do lots of variation- anything from snails pace to racehorse pace

but yes, thats fine.
I do sometimes feel like i am 'chasing him in' only really when he is reluctant- eg scary filler etc. Actually worse from trot, as he gets choppy, and rhythm is lost again...

 

[KatB]

Ok, does he stop alot? Is he spooky? Sounds like you are getting there with the flatwork (well done!

) but he needs to learn the basic of getting to the other side of the fence regardless? Thats where jumping from trot can help, its not pretty, but it gets them to the other side of the fence and gets them thinking about where their legs are. Does his technique improve over bounces?

 

[Cash]

Errr... yes, isn't an out and out stopper at all, but if he feels i'm not with him all the way he will stop at the last second, particularly when jumping away from home eg at a show, when he gets a bit 'over emotional' anyway lol!
Yes, we can trot over fences (and as you say it's not pretty!) but i really doesn't help our rhythm. Do you think i should work on that more?
Yes, generally the shorter distance in between the better- less time to muck around!- but we CAN'T do a spread before a bounce, coz he thinks it's another spread

he's a bit 'special'!

 

[Kenzo]

I'll PM you on Sunday, dont have time now as I'v got to log off then going away for the weekend, remind me on Sunday aft if your logged on.

Must go as my dad is going mad as I'm still logged on lol

 

[KatB]

Ok, there is no point on working on the perfect rhythm, approach etc if you dont know if he will jump it when he gets there!! I would be forgetting that for the time being, and work on getting him over the fence. Once he gets out of the "am I/arent I" mentality, and into the "i'm getting to the other side" mentality you will find you will natuarally have him taking you forward more, so then you wont have to chase him as the canter will be there and stay there as he isnt backing off, and voila!!

I've been there, and still am on occasions, so know how difficult it is