Jumping position advice

[gembear]

Hey folks!

I've been reading these forums for a wee while but only signed up recently. I use to ride a little when I was younger, but took riding up properly about a year ago. Earlier this year I started learning how to jump, just really small cross poles then my instructor pushed me to tackle a metre jump on a horse i'd never been on before and i ended up crashing painfully to the ground. I refused to jump for a while after that and just carried on with flatwork, but last month I started learning again and I refuse to go too high!

However, i'm always asking for advice on how to fold more from my hips but my instructors answer is always "it doesn't matter so much with small jumps, when you go bigger you'll find you fold more naturally with the horse". And she doesn't really seem to give me much advice and just says it's fine.

I'm still convinced though that my jumping position is all wrong, and by the time I come to do even bigger jumps i'll be in trouble.

Here's a picture:

Thoughts?

 

[TrasaM]

A different instructor for a starter it does matter about correct form.. Ie folding and allowing with the hands, over the little jumps because that is how you learn to do it properly before you start to put the jumps up.
My RI had me practicing it in trot before I even got to start jumping. That way you learn the sequence so you are not desperately trying to remember what you do next when you do start jumping. Anyhow it worked for me.

 

[be positive]

A different instructor for a starter it does matter about correct form.. Ie folding and allowing with the hands, over the little jumps because that is how you learn to do it properly before you start to put the jumps up.
My RI had me practicing it in trot before I even got to start jumping. That way you learn the sequence so you are not desperately trying to remember what you do next when you do start jumping. Anyhow it worked for me.

Of course it matters, otherwise once the jumps get bigger you will need to change your style as well as tackle the bigger fences.
In the photo you are standing in your stirrups, your hands are coming back a bit defensively and if anything happened you are in a position which will not be secure and you are more likely to fall off.
The jump position needs to be secure to be safe, lower leg close to the horse not going backwards, a shorter stirrup may help, although yours is not going back, fold from the hips so your bum goes back as your shoulders go forward, this means you remain balanced on the horse, hands forward towards the bit or ears depending on which release you find easier.
Try finding your position in walk, trot, canter and over poles until it feels more natural, you can also try off the horse as if you are really balanced you should be able to do it, the perfect position to aim for is if you take the horse away you should remain in balance.

Just to add, it is meant to be fun so to some extent I do see where your instructor is coming from but only in so far as it does not matter if it goes wrong trying too hard can have a negative effect on your position, a happy medium is best, working on getting it right but not stressing if it does not

 

[sandi_84]

God definitely another instructor!
From your photo I'd say you need to work on less of a standing position as it looks like you've stood up rather than folded (this isn't critisism by the way!) what should be happening is:

Line of Approach, Take off (start to fold), Moment of Suspension, Landing (get your bum completely back in the saddle), Getaway -

So... you look for your turn into the jump, get your Line Of Approach, look up and past the jump (rather than directly at the jump or down at the ground) so focus on a point beyond the jump.

As your horse lifts it feet and it's shoulders come up (Take Off) you should begin to fold forwards from your hips - for smaller jumps you don't really need to lift yourself too high out of the saddle - and "give with your hands".

So you can practice your fold at home on the ground, stand with your knees bent and in a slightly crouched position so your shoulder, hip and foot are in line (mirrors are helpful at this point ) like you are riding an invisible horse and then go for your jump position - lift a tiny amount up, push your bum back to counterbalance your weight and "give with your hands" so basically push your hands forward a little. Make pushing your bum out more important than the lift off your saddle and hopefully you shouldn't end up in an upright standing position.
You should be folded forwards from your hips, not hunched over through your back nor stood up straight.

Then you get your Moment of Suspension and then your Landing where you should be moving back into your normal riding position. You want your bum in the saddle again and normal riding position for your Getaway so that you can control the horse for your next jump/movement or turn.

It's all practice practice practice as it all goes so quickly when you are actually jumping but if you have an instructor that won't teach you properly over the smaller jumps I'm not surprised you fell off when made to do a 3ft jump! I really do reccomend you change instructor!

Is your instructor qualified in any way and are you doing lessons at a proper riding school or is this just a friend teaching you?

ETA: you can also practice like TrasaM says whilst trotting round and cantering too

 

[gembear]

Thanks for your advice!
Since looking at other riders jumping positions and then my own it really has hit me it needs a lot of work. I got someone to video/photograph a lesson recently so I could see (which was certainly useful).

I use to have an older, more qualified RI but she retired from teaching and I was gutted because she was amazing. She gave really good advice, but by the time i'd started to learn how to jump she announced she was going.
I'm not sure what qualifications my new RI has, but I think she's quite young. She works at the RS, as well as teach and I do like her, but she certainly isn't as knowledgeable as the other instructor.

Problem is, I don't have my own horse and there aren't many RS's around where I live. There is a really good school i've been to a few times that's 40 minutes away but it's also more expensive and I sometimes go to one near my Mum's when I go home for a weekend but yeah... not often.

 

[TrasaM]

That's a shame Gembear. I've had a few different instructors but the main woman who teaches me knows what she's doing and I've made a lot of progress in the two years since I started riding. We've had our moments with my jumping style but between her and the horse we are jumping quite confidently although not high. Hence my at your doing a meter before you've learnt the correct technique. If you are going to continue with this instructor stick to your guns and keep the jumps low and insist that she shows you how to fold correctly as explained by sandi_84 and be positive. That and focus on staying with the horse's movement and look ahead beyond the jump and not at it. The horse will do the rest. Stay positive

 

[gembear]

That's a shame Gembear. I've had a few different instructors but the main woman who teaches me knows what she's doing and I've made a lot of progress in the two years since I started riding. We've had our moments with my jumping style but between her and the horse we are jumping quite confidently although not high. Hence my at your doing a meter before you've learnt the correct technique. If you are going to continue with this instructor stick to your guns and keep the jumps low and insist that she shows you how to fold correctly as explained by sandi_84 and be positive. That and focus on staying with the horse's movement and look ahead beyond the jump and not at it. The horse will do the rest. Stay positive

I was in a group lesson at the time with more experienced riders, but when it was my turn I said it was too high for me but she just went - no it's not, you'll be fine. Then I fell off I did get back on and do it again without falling off but she then said I needed to work on my jumping position. Funny considering i've since asked her how I can work on it more and she doesn't really give me any advice. At the time, there was still a slight cross over with my old RI, and when I told her about it her mouth nearly hit the floor.

That being said, she is young and probably still learning how to be a better teacher and I do like her she is lovely. There is another older RI who i've come across that sometimes teaches in the evenings. I had one jumping lesson with her and she was really informative, but she tends to teach more experienced riders and I felt like I was holding the rest of them back in the lesson (she can be quite popular i think).

But I would like to have my own horse one day and maybe do a few little competitions so I figured learning how to jump corretly was pretty important

 

[TrasaM]

Can you arrange a private lesson with the more experienced RI? That way you can focus just on you and not feel like you are less able than anyone else? You're probably not by the way.

 

[sandi_84]

Again ditto what TrasaM says

If it were me I would try having a jumping lesson with the more expensive instructor 40mins away or getting lessons with the older instructor at your yard even if it meant not going for lessons as often as usual. As long as you gel with your RI and are being taught correctly that is the main thing at the end of the day.

Also I'd like to add to my previous post that as long as you have got soft hands with elastic elbows (so they give if you do get left behind) it is far better to be left behind during jumping that to be ahead of the horses movement

The reaction you got from your old RI before you left is the right one. Your RI now that made you do the jump completely contradicted herself and then made it seem like it was your fault for falling off - that is not a good instructor! If she doesn't know how to explain jumping position to a student and due to her lack of information and pushing you too far too fast causes you to fall off and then has the brass neck to say "you need to work on your jumping position" like it was your fault she shouldn't be teaching yet! I'm a little shocked and quite sad for you tbh that could have been completely confidence shattering well done you for getting back on and giving it another go!

You just need to stick to the smaller jumps till your position gets a bit better and then you can start to work on bigger ones, sooner than you know it you'll be flying round grids but there's plenty of time for that and it'll only happen if you get a good instructor who shows you how to do things properly.

ETA: your instructor might be the most lovely person in the world but if she isn't teaching you right you aren't going to get anywhere with her... sorry sweetie

 

[showpony]

Agree with poster above. Get some private lessons with more experienced RI. You will learn more most likely in 2 privates than you will in a mth of weekly group lessons with a less competent instructor. I'm getting my jumping mojo back at moment and one thing that really helps is standing on step on ball of your foot and balancing as long as you can! You can't tip forward, you have to fold from your hips and push ure bum out! Really has helped me with my position as has lots of 2 point work in trot and canter.

 

[be positive]

I agree with sandi about the instructor and the comments she has made regarding you working on you position, that is all very well for her to say but she needs to give instructions on what you need to work on , she may well be very inexperienced and unqualified is there no one else at the RS with more experience that does lessons.
Otherwise having less frequent better quality individual lessons may well be the way to learn more and you could find your riding improves and your confidence grows much faster even with less riding.

 

[gembear]

Thanks again to both of you.

I don't think the other older RI (who i've had 1 lesson with) does private lessons but I could always ask. She's very rarely there the days that I go, but i'd book lessons through the RS anyway not with her so I can ask them. My old RI who I originally started learning with did say she would happily give me the odd private lesson if the RS let her, as she has her own horse at the yard so i've seen her around sometimes. However, the RS have been a bit funny about it - something to do with insurance, I dunno.

I might book with the other school tomorrow, the RI there is really lovely and very very informative and she's only young. It's £34 for a half hour lesson so not cheap

Sandi I noticed you live in Scotland, me too where abouts are you?

 

[gembear]

Agree with poster above. Get some private lessons with more experienced RI. You will learn more most likely in 2 privates than you will in a mth of weekly group lessons with a less competent instructor. I'm getting my jumping mojo back at moment and one thing that really helps is standing on step on ball of your foot and balancing as long as you can! You can't tip forward, you have to fold from your hips and push ure bum out! Really has helped me with my position as has lots of 2 point work in trot and canter.

Ooooh what is a step ball?
Must get one!

 

[sandi_84]

Ooooh what is a step ball?
Must get one!

She means step on the edge of a step standing only on the ball of your foot By the way re-looking at your pic I noticed that your foot is all the way through your stirrup which won't help either, try to keep the stirrup iron just on the ball of your foot - sorry again that's not a critisism, I still do it too - it'll help keep your leg in the right position and give you more security too

Even if you can't get private lessons with the older instructor ask if she'd be willing to take you in her group lessons it's worth a try

I'm up in the north I knew from your first post that you were scottish too because you'd been riding a "wee" while

 

[showpony]

Stand on step on ball of your foot ! Harder that it seems.... Lol

 

[Penumbra]

It's a shame your instructor has knocked your confidence like this. I do think your jumping position could do with some work, and I don't think it will happen naturally. It's a shame you can't find another RI locally.

It's hard to tell from only one photo, but I would say you need to give with your hands more, and push your bottom back so it's over the cantle of the saddle, as well as what others have said about your stirrups and lower leg. You can practise all of this over small jumps, or even whilst doing flatwork, so that it comes naturally when jumping the bigger jumps. I hope you don't mind me saying this, as I know you didn't ask for CC, and there are lots of flaws with my jumping position too! Unfortunately, the only way to improve is practise, with someone telling you what to change!

 

[gembear]

It's a shame your instructor has knocked your confidence like this. I do think your jumping position could do with some work, and I don't think it will happen naturally. It's a shame you can't find another RI locally.

It's hard to tell from only one photo, but I would say you need to give with your hands more, and push your bottom back so it's over the cantle of the saddle, as well as what others have said about your stirrups and lower leg. You can practise all of this over small jumps, or even whilst doing flatwork, so that it comes naturally when jumping the bigger jumps. I hope you don't mind me saying this, as I know you didn't ask for CC, and there are lots of flaws with my jumping position too! Unfortunately, the only way to improve is practise, with someone telling you what to change!

I completely agree! You've all given me some fantastic advice so far.
I've booked a lesson tomorrow with a good school that's further away. I can't go that often because it's so expensive and further to travel, but like someone else said... even if I take fewer, but better instructed lessons it would be better for me in the long term.

Also looking for a share, so I can get more practice (although I wouldn't be looking to do any jumping, just flatwork!)

 

[Marydoll]

I would echo the change of instructor. Ride in contact with the saddle in a light seat, or on your leg in light slightly forward seat, try not to think of leaning forward as the horse comes up, more of sliding your bum back, and keeping your head up this should help fold you at the hip, allow hands to side along the neck, as the front of the horse comes up, on landing, when the front of the horse starts to drop, sit right up and and drop your weight into your stirrups letting your knees and ankles take the shock so you dont bump yourself into the saddle, then sit light seat again taking most of the weight through your legs and into your feet in the stirrups.

 

[A Musing]

I have the same issue and tend to stand up in my stirrups rather than fold managed once to do it right by thinking of pushing my bum back and my hands forward, so bum and hands basically pushing away from each other. Really worked. Horse then got sick so haven't jumped for ages but hopefully will find my mojo again. Have fun at your lesson!

 

[Jola]

God she sounds like my (now ex as of friday) riding instructor!
I was actually worried she was gonna get me hurt so I quit my lessons with her. I now have an experienced friend who teaches me and I've learnt so much just in my first lesson. Good luck

 

[vickyb]

How to have your confidence knocked. I hope she felt ashamed of herself! I echo what others have said, and also it is really a matter of practice and doing as much jumping as you can. Keep the jumps low and don't progress until you are totally bored and competent over low ones. Practice your jumping position on the flat. Believe me, one day you won't understand how you coudn't do it!

 

[Micky]

Ditto everyone else...find a good instructor, who explains what she wants you to do in simple ways or even gets on the horse and shows you what to do...Our instructor used to get us in the jumping position in walk, trot and canter, then over trotting poles etc, leading up to small jumps, until we were eager for the bigger jumps . Another helpful pointer to remember is as you approach the jump, start counting or reciting numbers/abc ( to keep you breathing in time to the stride) sit in saddle about 3/4 strides away, push you heels down and let your horse take you...you will be in a very secure position re your heels as if your horse stops, you won't (shouldn't!!) fly over the jump first! And remember its good fun, not badminton

 

[Ponyclubber11]

Try to fold form your hips and release with your reins but do not try to fold too far forward so you get left behind! Also try to do pole work and canter work in jumping position. Everyone finds jumping position even olympic riders have to think about it