Jumping with a standing martingale on?

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reindeerlover

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Hi all, I have got a jumping lesson this afternoon and big orse has got in the habit of jerking his head up to grab the reins from you so that he can do as he pleases. So far he does this when he is jumping in an outdoor arena and cross country (particularly when Unting :eek:). Not so much when flatwork schooling but he'll put in an odd one to show his distain. A standing martingale stops him doing this obviously and when he realises that this is on he doesn't usually bother. When I have jumped him indoors before he doesn't really do it (although that was only twice ever!) so my question is, do we attempt to jump him with it on? Or do we just leave it off?

Has anyone ever jumped with one on and how does it affect the horse's way of going? Does it affect recovery if they peck on landing etc?
 
The standing martingale is to stop the horse getting his head up too high to be out of control and so he doesn't smack you in the face. I have never heard of a standing martingale affecting their recovery if they peck on landing. Lots of people used to put a standing martingale on routinely for hunting as a "just in case" particularly for younger horses.

If you feel safer then use it.

I have seen them so short that the head is effectively tied down, which could affect its jumping, but a normal, correctly adjusted one allows sufficient room for jumping.

Mind, if he throws his head up too violently he might break the noseband, or at least stretch it, which happened with one of mine out hunting when he got really impatient in a queue.
 
You have to ensure the martingale is not so short that it restricts his head movement going over the fence. As long as it only kicks in when he is chucking his head up and does not interfere in the jumping it should be fine. That said I think some people will be concerned that it will interfere and suggest you use a running one instead and you don't see people jumping with standing martingales that often.

Back in the mists of time (like 20 years ago!) before I got into dressage I did bs(ja) affiliated sj and usually I did jump in a standing martingale and it worked fine.
 
There are a few old threads on the forum if you google which might be worth reading :)

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=372264
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=289518
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=186721

Seems they are legal to BSJA but not BE, unless the rules have recently changed.

I've come to the conclusion that it should be fine to use, although for regular use jumping using one with an elastic insert may be better - it seems they are fairly common for hunting and when you think of the size of things they are jumping and the inconsistency of the ground, they wouldn't use a piece of equipment that makes it more difficult or dangerous for the horse.

I think as long as they are fitted properly, then it should be fine to jump in.
 
Santalover said:
Er...Thanks? Could either of you explain further? I'm not saying "I'm going to use one so Ner" I'm genuinely asking for views so I'd appreciate both sides. :)
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I'm not anti standing martingales - I have been recommended to use them by a couple of trainers who I really rate - for youngsters that stick their heads in the air and pee off.

And - if it is jumping in an SM or a broken nose then of course I'd go with the SM everytime.

I have to admit - I have never known anyone jump in an SM - so would have to defer to the opinions of the two posters that have. But I have to say I have always used market harboroughs to jump tricky horses and have still got a straight nose ( well, the one that I was born with!).

The MH prevents the horse's head getting so high as to not be in control, but allows some give when you go over the fence as your hands go forward - which you can vary yourself with the amount of freedom you allow. They are also very good for horses that snatch at the reins as you describe as the horse ends up fighting itself, therefore much easier for the rider!

If you have a horse that is very extravagant over a fence, I would worry that the SM would be too restrictive. If his technique is bad enough that be needs to be jumped in a SM (for fear of a nosebleed!), then surely any restriction would make him worse?

People also jump some horses in draw reins - not my cup of tea either - but another suggestion.

Perhaps take the SM along and see what your instructor says?

Best of luck anyway - hope you have fun x
 
Apologies for brief reply earlier Santalover. I just always worry that they can be too restrictive for the horse both for jumping and if he or she gets into trouble over a fence. The one with an elastic insert sounds more suitable if you really do need one.

I'm a bit old school with gadgets and was always taught many moons ago to never jump with a standing martingale on the horse, only a running martingale if needed.
 
ISHmad said:
Apologies for brief reply earlier Santalover. I just always worry that they can be too restrictive for the horse both for jumping and if he or she gets into trouble over a fence. The one with an elastic insert sounds more suitable if you really do need one.

I'm a bit old school with gadgets and was always taught many moons ago to never jump with a standing martingale on the horse, only a running martingale if needed.
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Me too :D
 
Have to say I really would not recommend a Market Harborough for Eric - his whole style of going is against it as he needs to stretch over his fences and jumps in a forward, long style. The MH would pull his head down and in and restrict him over the fences I think, and I don't think he'd take at all well to it.

BTF - it is worth mentioning that the horse doesn't have a bad technique, nor is he the type that tries to stick his ears in your face coming into a jump. It is more the case that he has learnt that he is a big strong horse, and fights control by yanking his head forward and pulling the rider out of balance - a running martingale doesn't make a difference. A SM is loose enough that it only restricts him when he does this, rather than being something pulling him down and constantly in action.
 
Ooh, a spirited debate! How exciting... I have never used a market harborough so have no idea at all how they work- by the description I would guess something like a de gogue? I'm not a fan of gadgets myself (I don't even bother with nosebands half the time) but the big beast has such a talent that it would be nice to see him look at the jump on the approach rather than have his head flailing about as he tries to have a completely loose rein!

I think the best thing to do (since a running martingale has no affect at all) is use the standing for warming up and possibly over the first couple of small jumps and see how it goes. It is an attachment to the beastplate so is easily taken off (as long as I can undo the noseband!).

Thanks very much for everyone's help, I appreciate the wealth of knowledge!
 
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If you need one put it on, I rode Kizzy in one for years as she had lots of evasions which made life a bit dangerous! I used it for flatwork & jumping, & only took it off for competitions where I used a running for sj & xc, as time went on & she became better trained & rideable I took it off, rode in a snaffle bridle for dressage at home & shows, & used a running with a neue schule universal for xc/sj. She suffered no ill effects, had regular physio etc, & I was still alive, always a bonus!

Perhaps put it on at the start of the lesson & explain your choice of tack, then the trainer can help you from there?
 
xspiralx said:
Have to say I really would not recommend a Market Harborough for Eric - his whole style of going is against it as he needs to stretch over his fences and jumps in a forward, long style. The MH would pull his head down and in and restrict him over the fences I think, and I don't think he'd take at all well to it.

BTF - it is worth mentioning that the horse doesn't have a bad technique, nor is he the type that tries to stick his ears in your face coming into a jump. It is more the case that he has learnt that he is a big strong horse, and fights control by yanking his head forward and pulling the rider out of balance - a running martingale doesn't make a difference. A SM is loose enough that it only restricts him when he does this, rather than being something pulling him down and constantly in action.
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But that is exactly the sort of action a market harborough is helpful with! They shouldn't force the head down and in (if it does it has been fitted incorrectly) - as they are fitted so that they do not affect the horse when he is working in a round, correct outline. It comes into action when they yank the rein forward - they are pulling against themselves rather than pulling the rein out of your hand which means the rider is not pulled out of balance.

If you jumped him in the MH - then you would be able to move your hands forwards- which will give him the extra room he needs to jump without any restrictions. I would have thought - from the way you say he jumps - that he would be restricted by a SM.

I wasn't inferring that your chap had a poor jumping technique (I hope I didn't give that impression!) just that I have seen a SM used in those circumstances.

Anyhow - hope you had a good lesson :D
 
i had a Showjumper who was also a continual rearer, the only thing that stopped him was a standing martingale, it never stopped him from jumping, just stopped him from killing me!
 
Thanks for all your suggestions folks, I may look at Market Harboroughs at some point they sound interesting.

Bert- no offence taken at all, I think what Spiral was saying is that he does do odd things over a jump but it's not that he jumps badly (rather to explain to ourselves than to defend poor old lanky-legs Eric!)

Anyway, the jumping lesson went very well, he seems to be a different horse indoors and we only used the runnning martingale as could not find the standing attachment in any case! Didn't think that the orange baler twine that we used for hacking the other day would quite suit......
 
Hello hello! Looked at the vids - good stuff! Lovely trot & canter from Eric, & big improvement in transitions at end :)

Sorry I have come in after the fact - when i was young I always read that u shd never jump in a SM. That said, out Untin i have seen it done several times on ponies that really needed it, so personally I would if I felt it necessary and wouldn't worry about it.

I can see that others have replied in a much better way than me, but just thought I'd add my tuppence worth and say Eric's bound to get snapped up :) Cor, I would!!!
 
I would not jump with a standing martingale but school this out of him after checking it's not a saddle, teeth and back issue.

A good exercise to try is placing a pole on the ground a stride AFTER the jump the horse will go over the jump and the pole then encourages the horse to look downn and think about his legs.

Also wear a neck strap and hold on to this to make totally sure you aren' accidently getting him in the teeth on landing.

Hope this helps. :)

Good luck and have fun.
 
i've hunted (and obv jumped ;)) many a horse in the US with a standing on - they are standard tack over there - never had any problems :) they were all leather - nowdays i must admit that if i wanted to use one i'd go for an elastic one - only as it doesn't then have such a sharp effect
i actually prefer the action of a Standing to a running - but that's another debate altogether lol
 
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