just dont know what to try next!

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PLAYBOY

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My horse in Very strong i jump him in a hannoverian pelham with a very large port! with cherry rollers short shank at the moment but he soon gets the hang of bits and i have to put him in something new he came in a normal gag doesnt work i school him in a cherry roller gag which he is also know avaiding! i tried him in a hackamore tonight he was like a tank! my instructor says the only step up is a mikmar but what happens if i use that then i have nothing else togo up to! i try schoolong him in a snaffle french link but really it a joke!! I show him in a double bridle which he goes super in but jumping he thows his head about in it like a MAD MAN! ive tried verious pelhams but im trying to incourage him to strech long and low and he just goes with his head like under his knees and is strong ! what do i do im thinking maybe combination like what robert whitikar was jumping his horse in in pressuince?(or barbed wire ! joke ) but im not too sure what it was i think it was is it a german hackamore? and a bit on pelham roundings! HELP ANY IDEAS??? xx
 
What noseband do you use? Looks like a plain cavesson in your siggy... Nosebands can make lots of difference, maybe try a flash or something before you splash out on a combination
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Mikmars aren't a really strong bit. If you can't hold him in what you are using now I wouldn't have thought a mikmar would help you much. try different nosebands like someone else said - what about a kineton?
 
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Mikmars aren't a really strong bit. If you can't hold him in what you are using now I wouldn't have thought a mikmar would help you much. try different nosebands like someone else said - what about a kineton?

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ive tried fash also mexican and grackle makes no diff! i have an elevator bridle which i can make the nose band quite tight on at them min as it has the wide pressure pad at the bk x
whats a kineton ive heard of it but cnt think what it is ? x
 
I was going to suggest changing your bit pretty often just in case you juse the same bit day in day out which he may be starting to get strong in.
 
sam did what i did...i went from the basic to the very harsh and then back again... he went so well in a cyprium snaffle 2 months and then i had to notch it up again for jumping! sorry the hackamore didnt work, it did for flint so maybe my suggestions are not too good...back to basics on flat work something stronger but not harsh in jumping.... when can have a sit ???!!!
 
my freind uses a driving bit on her very strong horse - but recently he became even stronger and leaning on her hand then coming behind the bit - after plying about with other bits she put the driving bit in with a flash and its worked a treat x
 
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I suppose the concept of schooling so that you aren't relying on the pain/restriction combination of hard bit and tight noseband is out of the question?

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Horses learn how to evade any bit. It is a good idea to use one for a couple of months and then change it for a couple of months and then change back again and so forth. It will confuse them and then they have to 'learn' all over again how to evade it
 
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Horses learn how to evade any bit. It is a good idea to use one for a couple of months and then change it for a couple of months and then change back again and so forth. It will confuse them and then they have to 'learn' all over again how to evade it

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This is going to be controversial, but horses don't learn how to 'evade' anything. THey learn how best to move in a way that is least painful to achieve what they think is being asked of them. Evasion isn't a useful concept, it already sets up the idea that the horse is being deliberately difficult, which is not the case. The horse is doing the best it can. Training for softness, elevation, rhythm, suppleness and a soft contact make the changing of bits entirely unnecessary.

but it takes a lot longer and you might have a lot of learned behaviours to undo

good luck

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Quite - I have always understood that a horse that rushes when jumping does so in fear. My advice would be to scale down to a milder bit and do some schooling until the horse is much more obedient and then return to jumping.
 
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