Just dont know whats wrong! :(

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Berry and Des

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Last Wednesday my horse fell over on the yard, no one saw him fall but everyone saw him getting up off the floor. He is a big 16hh Belgian Warmblood, so it was alot of horse to fall. He is not lame completly sound in trot but he cannot lift his right hind with out physically shaking and picking up his left for a considerable amount of time, and even then when i have picked up the right one it springs up so high and he nearly falls and is very uncomfortable, any idea on what action to take? My back lady is not getting back to me regarding his problems aswell can anyone recommend a good Osteopath in the south east? :o
 
If you are not sure why he fell and he now has problems I think the vet before any back person. Could this be neurological?? Maybe he damaged his back or pelvis? Are you absolutely sure he is sound on trot up?
Personally it sounds to me as if there is something quite wrong and you need a professional diagnosis. I always understood that you needed a vets permission before the back person could treat. I may be wrong though.
 
misst said:
If you are not sure why he fell and he now has problems I think the vet before any back person. Could this be neurological?? Maybe he damaged his back or pelvis? Are you absolutely sure he is sound on trot up?
Personally it sounds to me as if there is something quite wrong and you need a professional diagnosis. I always understood that you needed a vets permission before the back person could treat. I may be wrong though.
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^^^^^ this

Please call your vet before doing anything else.
 
mytwofriends said:
^^^^^ this

Please call your vet before doing anything else.
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My vets said it is a good idea to get the back person in, and they will say to get a vet if it could be something more serous, but she just isn't getting back to me! He has no heat in his legs and is 100% sound in trot, my friend recokon is should be boxing him but i turned him out for ten mins tonight and in the field he would pick the leg up fine no problem, but he wont let me pick it up on the yard! There is nothing obvious it is really hard!
 
misst said:
If you are not sure why he fell and he now has problems I think the vet before any back person. Could this be neurological?? Maybe he damaged his back or pelvis? Are you absolutely sure he is sound on trot up?
Personally it sounds to me as if there is something quite wrong and you need a professional diagnosis. I always understood that you needed a vets permission before the back person could treat. I may be wrong though.
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I dont think it is neurological i have owned him nearly 8 years and nothing ike this has ever hapened to him! :(
 
I NEVER call a vet if I don't have to. I'd call a vet this time, those symptoms could be a number of things, none of them good and one, cracked pelvis, that could be a death sentence if you don't imobilise him and it now breaks.

Get a vet, please.
 
Why on earth do people always seem to want to get out a "back lady" or an osteopath? You really need a vet. Even if they can't immediately diagnose exactly where the problem lies at least they can prescribe anti-inflammatories which should alleviate the problem to begin with.
 
All complementary animal therapists should work with the Vet's permission (legal requirement) - so definitely speak to the Vet. Hope he gets better soon.
 
Rueysmum said:
Why on earth do people always seem to want to get out a "back lady" or an osteopath? You really need a vet. Even if they can't immediately diagnose exactly where the problem lies at least they can prescribe anti-inflammatories which should alleviate the problem to begin with.
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No swelling, no heat, no lameness please tell me how you think a vet is going to help me! he is showing no other signs other than not picking up his leg on hard ground! but would pick it up straight away in the field!
 
Berry and Des said:
I have had so many bad experiences with vets mis diagnosing my horses that i would rather do everything else i can before calling one! :)
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Sorry but if you have had bad experiences (and I have too in the past so sympathise) then get a different vet. It is not fair on your horse to guess. For me no heat no lameness(are you sure?) and no swelling are almost more worrying. If it is a pelvis or back problem then he will not have these things.
Also what can a vet do? Xrays, scans, nerve blocks, expert eye and opinion for starters. You still do not know why he fell over - that is not normal either. You say yourself he has never done this before in 8 years - surely that should ring alarm bells.
 
Berry and Des said:
No swelling, no heat, no lameness please tell me how you think a vet is going to help me! he is showing no other signs other than not picking up his leg on hard ground! but would pick it up straight away in the field!
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Because a vet is qualified to diagnose the problem!!!!!!!

I'll tell you a little story.
Horse on my yard went lame after being loose schooled and charging around like an idiot (being chased by an idiot, owner's BF). He tripped over a loose pole on the ground and went down on his back end. Cue owner turning horse out for a week, then getting the back person out, who diagnosed a twisted pelvis. Three more visits from the back person, and six weeks later, the horse is still very lame, infact, getting worse.

They finally call the vet out, horse has put a hole though the suspensory tendon on his near hind, but the injury is six weeks old by now, and he's been roaming around a hilly field, on the advice of the back person, who wanted him out.

A year of box rest, plus six months limited turnout, and the horse is a complete right off, will never be sound.

If they had got the vet in the first place, maybe things would have been a lot different.

So my advice to you would be to get the vet to look at your horse, he could have something serious that a back person may miss or make worse. It may not even be his back, but you won't know until you get him seen by a professional who trained for six years to call themselves that.
 
Call the vet! If you don't trust your current vet call another one. I don't see how you can place an anonymous horse forum and a back lady who hasn't even visited over a vet visit! Your horse's problem could potentially be very serious, you need a qualified, veterinary professional to give you a diagnosis.
 
If he could lift his leg up fine before falling over, then hes damaged something and needs a vet.
I got a 'back person' to my horse years ago, mainly as it was something the yad had organised. I was sceptical but went along with it. He said my horses back was really bad :confused::confused: and needed to come back out. I then rang my vet as I was concerned and they'd never heard of this person. I didnt let him come back but used the vet reccomended back person who said the opposite of the back man I first got. I heard later he had 'worked' on a horse that had a fractured pelvis, unknown to both himself and the owner who had got him out and not the vet. Sadly this resulted in the horse being pts as he damaged it further.
Your insurance will be void if it turns out there is a problem and you have used a back person without a vets referal.
I hope you get to the bottom of it.
 
Berry and Des said:
No swelling, no heat, no lameness please tell me how you think a vet is going to help me! he is showing no other signs other than not picking up his leg on hard ground! but would pick it up straight away in the field!
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How do I think a vet is going to help you?

I think that there are plenty of people who think their horse is sound when others can see it is lame. No swelling no heat - where you can feel it - but a reaction somewhere, and quite a strong one from what you describe, which means deep tissue or bone injury and in one of a number of nasty places that are difficult to diagnose and to cure. I think your vet might be able to tell a cracked pelvis from a tweaked hamstring.

He doesn't do it in the field ? - well he has other things on his mind, doesn't he, like going off and playing with his mates, or eating that nice green stuff. For goodness sake, he fell right over on a flat surface for no reason, does that not worry you enough?

OP I never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever (get the message?) call a vet unless I have to. I won't pay a penny in vets fees I don't need to. I've got a horse in my yard right now with an effin great hole in his frog from a burst abscess who won't be getting a vet visit any time soon. But in your case, I'd have the horse in a box tonight and get the vet tomorrow. If your horse breaks a cracked pelvis that could have fixed itself, or completely tears a tendon that is currently only gently tweaked, will you ever forgive yourself?

You asked for advice, please take it, it's been unanimous, get a vet!
 
Get a decent horse vet out ASAP..... The very fact your vet made a diagnosis over the phone and told you to get a back person speaks volumes.
I genuinely hope your horse is ok, and hope its just a tweak.
 
Just so you all know he is fine the vat came yesterday was there for no longer than 10 minutes and he has nothing wrong with him except he is one out of 10 lame! No cracked pelvis etc lol! He is 17 use to do puisannce when he was younger and she said he is prob always 1 out of ten lame, as his legs are pretty battered from working his whold life! and it is that slight only a trained eye would see it as for him not picking up his leg i thing he was just being very dramatic as he usually is and is very good about getting out of work sometimes, but thanks for all the concern! :)
 
cptrayes said:
I NEVER call a vet if I don't have to. I'd call a vet this time, those symptoms could be a number of things, none of them good and one, cracked pelvis, that could be a death sentence if you don't imobilise him and it now breaks.

Get a vet, please.
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Completely agree. And if your vet isn't keen to come out - get a new one.
 
Berry and Des said:
Just so you all know he is fine the vat came yesterday was there for no longer than 10 minutes
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Seriously, I think you need a new vet. A 17 year old horse falls flat on its face on a flat concrete yard for no known reason and they spend no more than ten minutes checking him over? Did she do flexion tests? Did she have him lunged on a circle on hard ground? Did she listen to his heart? He's always been 1/10 lame? Seriously? And you never noticed his marked reluctance to pick up one hind leg before but it was "always there"? Sounds unlikely to me, sorry, and I think your vet is letting you down even if they happen on this occasion, by chance, to be right.

I am glad for you that he is OK, and I hope he continues in good health.
 
OMG I would also be looking for another vet. 10 minutes - what did the vet do in 10 minutes. Mine takes that long to talk to me and just look the horse over never mind trot up/lunge/flexion test etc. Mine would have been there at least half an hour. As cptrayes said, the point for me, would be an big older horse apparently falling flat over for no obvious reason onto concrete. I would also question if he is "always" 1/10 lame why has this never been investigated? He is probably in pain. I am glad your vet thinks it is nothing serious but something sounds wrong somewhere. I have a 27yo and if she had these problems I would still be getting them investigated.
 
A friend of mine has a young horse that does the same thing with the hind leg - currently being investigated for shivers.

You need a new vet.

From H & H article :

Such horses have a tendency to snatch the limb up, or for the limb to quiver when it is lifted,

The signs are inconsistent and can be easily undetectable on a one-off examination, which can make it very difficult to spot.
 
If your vet cannot diagnose or you are unhappy about the diagnosis, ask for the horse to be referred, I appreciate that this horse is old so probably is not insured. What is the point of getting a back person to look at horses without getting the vets opinion first ! The back is a huge structure and if there is a problem there it probably stems from the way that the horse is moving i.e it may be lame. If there is a problem with the back itself without any other problems lower down, it is usually a little more than muscle spasm which I very much doubt that a' back lady' can put right ! Have more faith in your vets, but remember they re as human as we are, and they are sometimes wrong, but so are we as owners !
 
I wasnt going to post but after reading some of the replies from the OP i cant keep quiet any longer, for a pelvic fracture/hip fracture there doesnt need to be heat in the lower part of the leg, also the vet through palpation over the pelvic musculature will be able to see if there is resistance or pain, he/she would then xray/scan which may not show a callous for a good few days and then xray/scan again and a callous would show up, in the meantime the vet would suggest box rest, stable bandage and possibly no bute if the horse does not appear to be in pain as this could give an incorrect diagnosis. PLEASE call a vet otherwise you are causing your horse unnecessary suffering which could be construed as abuse. Good luck!!
 
Berry and Des said:
I dont think it is neurological i have owned him nearly 8 years and nothing ike this has ever hapened to him! :(
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I don't like to worry you, but the horse that I owned for 10 years, very suddenly fell over one day and it was neurological. I had to have her pts the following day. She had a problem in her neck and apparently could no longer control her hind legs. It came on extremely fast and she was not lame, but she would get her legs tangled and fall. So long as she was thinking about it, she was OK.

So please get your vet out.
 
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