Just found A LOT of unknown info out about my Project...

JackDaniels1

JackDaniels1

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 February 2009
Messages
1,050
Visit site
I have recently bought a project mare off a lady who bought her 12 months ago *thinking* she was a 'schoolmistress' (as advertised) for herself and her daughter. She had a 5 stage vetting done and bought her for quite a lot of money.

Horse was fine for 3 or 4 months, they did a lot of dressage competitions and they did well on her then said horse started bucking, mainly when in season schooling at home from the transition trot to canter (although she did buck in winter as well!) and did buck on a couple of occasions when they first got on. They carried out the usual checks - back, saddle, dentist, farrier - nothing wrong.

She then contacted the previous owner who she bought the mare off and the lady said she hadn't bucked with her at all. (Things then got a bit messy between those two and nasty letters/e-mails were sent threatening to take her to court if she didn't take the horse back and hand back the money she paid for her as mare wasn't the 'schoolmistress' as advertised!)

Lady I bought her off then contacted the previous previous owner (got her address off the passport) and asked her if the mare is prone to bucking. To cut a long conversation short, the lady said yes and is certainly not suitable for a mother/daughter share.

That's when they decided to sell her, they put her in livery with a professional rider to keep her in work and bought another more suitable horse.

I have just bought this mare.

I bought her as a project horse as owner explained that she had bucked with them and they are nervous riders. She told me that mostly they are just 'mild rocking bucks' going from trot to canter but can occasionally put in a bigger buck but with a confident rider, you can ride through the buck and then she is fine. Never bucks out hacking or at a show.

I got her about 10 days ago and has been as good as gold *so far* - easy to handle, laid-back, very calm, fine to lunge and free school, good to load and with the farrier.

A couple of days ago, I myself, decided to contact the previous previous previous owner (that the lady i bought her off spoke too) and she told me A LOT about this mare, we were on the phone for about an hour
blush.gif


Apparently, said mare has been bucking for years (mare is now 11yo) , had a lot of people off, when said lady took mare hunting she reared up and went right over (luckily both horse and rider weren't too badly injured!) and she said 'when she bucks, she bucks!' She described her as a 'professional's ride but not got that edge to be a professional's horse'.

Apparently, the lady who sold her to the lady i bought her off, bought her for next to nothing, competed her and sold her for quite a lot of money, not saying anything about the horse's bucking problem and then saying that the horse did not buck with her (when in fact she was put into hospital falling off the mare!)

The lady I bought her off described her to this lady as 'a serial bucker' and was willing either to give her away or have her PTS.

From hearing this, it has put me off getting on her
crazy.gif


I know I will probably get jumped on for posting this but just after some advice really
frown.gif
 
Sounds serious, I think I would be seriously put off by this news. If I was younger I would probably plough on, and ruin my back again, just like I did before. What are your options? How good a rider are you? and is the horse worth the effort in the end? (Can I ask if anyone has checked if she ha ovarian cysts?) Big decision, I'd hate to see a post from you in the future that you have hurt yourself, and now you know all about this, if you are feeling apprehensive it will only make things far worse. I don´t get why will you get jumped on for posting?
 
You've bought a project horse with quirks, the seller was honest from the onset. Looks like shes going to put a few bucks in, are you experience riding a horse that bucks? Its generally an evasion to going forwards so you'll have to ride her very forwards. Did you buy her as a project to 'rehabilitate' and sell? As her past owners have stated shes a pro ride but without the talent this is going to severly limit your market especially at the moment.

Perhaps give her the benefit of the doubt and get a decent instructor and get on with it, either that or send her for schooling for a period and get some feedback on her behaviour if she is very naughty at least you will know and make an informed decision about what to do with her.

Regarding your previous post about a saddle fitter, I think its crucial you get one professionally fitted considering her histroy. Maybe get the back lady out just to check her over before you start working her. Don't know what to suggest really most project horses are quirky hence a project.
 
Really sorry to hear about your horse.

It sounds like she has very long term problems that are not likely to go away. She may have some undiagnosed physical problem, but how much money can you afford to spend on investigations?

If you feel unhappy about riding her (and I can't blame you!!!) I think you might need to consider retirement or PTS as clearly she is at risk of being passed on further down the line.
 
I guess my options are get a decent recommended freelance instructor/trainer or professional rider to get on her first and see what they think.

Or look into putting her in foal depending on costs.

Or sell her as a potential broodmare.
 
I can't really give advice but it just strikes me that its the nature of horses that what is one man's meat is another man's poison. My own mare is a bucker and well known as such, but I think its fair to say in showjumping circles, a buck is sometimes overlooked and personally I quite like to see a horse buck as it usually means they jump well! Equally I know quite a few not really that competitive people who are quiet experienced who wouldn't be that bothered by a bit of a buck and would just discipline the horse and not let her away with it each time she tried it.

Bucking is quite easily anticipated and I stopped my own mare bucking by just not letting her away with it. But equally I could see her having gone down the other route and being described as a serial bucker!. Interesting the mother and daugher had her for 3 or 4 months going fine which indicates she can't be that bad really. But as you say, if not a real competition horse, not sure what the market would be for her.

The previous owner being hospitalised - well that could happen with any fall off any horse really, its just bad luck.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Its generally an evasion to going forwards so you'll have to ride her very forwards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally agree with that. Invariably with this problem you need to work on getting the horse going forwards and accepting and moving off the leg and not using bucking as an evasion. Often the bucking is a side issue to the real problem.

Something must have attracted you to this horse though?!?
 
She has had her back looked at numerous times, passed a five stage vetting last year. Although, I will get my back lady to come out and look at her.

She can go months where she doesn't buck then put one in one day out of the blue especially when she is having a 'bad day'.
 
A bucker really wouldn't worry me, much easier than a serial rearer.

There are wonderful things called buckstops you can buy which eliminate the head down drop shoulder buck. Obviously you cannot compete in them though.

As per others, I'm in sj'ing and many top horses repeatedly buck after jumping as they are athletic beasties.

Either than or sell her to the USA, they pay big money for proper buckers (probably doesn't apply in this case)!!!
 
From what the previous previous previous owner said she doesn't buck for the first few months until she is settled in her surroundings (she said the horse needs you to start off with, a insecurity sort of situation!)

Forgot to add, mare is sensitive and very responsive when you ride her - you can't discipline her after each buck as she would explode
shocked.gif
 
She sounds very very much like my girly in my sig. But there is a reason behind it (although she does do it sometimes just because) but this reason took me 3years to find and alot of arguing with vets.

I'm not sure I'd be too worried about it, I'd keep going the way you are and see what happens. But I would be getting a good instrutor in regularly.
 
This sounds very much like our mare - bought from a reputable dealer, so unknown history; sold as a schoolmistress but showed a buck from almost the start and much sharper than anticipated though decided to persevere and give her a chance and hoped it would go when she'd settled more.

She's much more chilled now considerable time later, but her occasional bucking fits (months between) are very hard to sit to - so it's a case of management, and making sure to adapt work to the mood she's in that day.

As she's become less sharp and more malleable without tension there is, however, less sign of when she's going to buck so she can appear a bit of a paradox but she is SUPER and it's now a case of getting my riding to the ability where I can sit to it.
 
I had pony like this years ago - we were the last stop before her going for meat. She bucked everyone off who rode her, including some very sticky 'rough riders'. I could ride anything with hair, but she bucked me off 6 times in half an hour. When I picked up a stick, she started going for me on the ground.
To this day I couldn't say whether this mare had an earlier pain issue (most likely) or whether she had learned that if she chose she could get people off.

I persevered with her and she was a successful jumping pony, but always bucked. If you went in the ring and they were slow ringing the bell, she would buck me off. If I was complacent on a hack she would pop me off neatly and I would land on my feet facing her
tongue.gif
No-one else could ever ride her.

Despite her being a good pony the owner sent her to Melton Mowbray sales as she simply couldn't sell her privately or warranted. She was bought by a family who soon learned their mistake and put her in foal. She went on to produce some fantastic foals, which were all saints to ride so it evidently wasn't a hereditary madness.... Sorry that's an essay.

I think some horses buck and you will never stop them and that the best rider in the world wil not stop a horse from bucking if it really knows how, I also think it could be really dangerous to persist. Good luck with finding a professional who will risk their livelihood on a horse which could put them in hospital, I would actually try to ride the mare a few times and see how dangerous/developed the buck is, and if it really is unrideable, then I would PTS I'm afraid and chalk it up to experience.
 
My mare is very sensitive and can throw the most enormous bucks when she wants to. Although I have never fallen off because of this (at the moment, touch wood!) I find that if she is doing regular exercise and varied activities it gets better, and I do just ignore it and move on, which I think shows her it really doesn't do anyone any good. She's a show jumper and only really does it now to tell me I mucked the stride up and to not do it again.
But if you don't get on her you won't know, and you don't know how bad it really is for yourself.
 
Sounds very similar to my new girl Shantia, I knew her history right from the start and got her for free since her previous owners were not happy about selling her on and were almost considering the PTS option. Thank god they didn't. I often debate whether I would have liked to know less, knowing what she was capable of certainly made me wary, but on the other hand I would never advocate selling such a horse without its full history. For this little mare at least, I think a lot of her bronching episodes were explainable. So far there have been no hiccups, but we have only done walk and trot, I lunge her every time at the moment before she is ridden, it helps to warm her up, focus her and relax her. She, like your horse only lets rip when breaking into canter, so I suppost time will tell.

Try not to let it phase you, I felt that although I was sure she would be ok, I would put too much pressure on my girlie by hoping she would be ok for her sake that it would wind her up. My friend was actually the first person to get on her, but she knew all that I knew and is very capable, she had a level of detachment from her because she was not her mare (does that make sense??)

Shantia, had a badly fitting saddle, was diagnosed with a muscle wastage virus (for which she had to have time off) and never really gelled with her old owner, so it became a constant battle between them. She behaved like this with them for a long time before they decided they could get nowhere with her.

I know that however it turns out, I have to any fears i have in order to giver her the very best chance possible. She is now a lovely settled mare and I hope and pray that she will continue to be so. It doesn't mean I wasn't petrified, but I think when you take on this sort of project horse, you make a commitment to them. If however you are not able to conquer your nerves, then you are going to get nowhere, this will transmit straight through your ar$e and down the reins to an already sparky horse. You have to really think hard and dig deep to see what you are capable of in this situation, it isn't for everyone.

Fingers crossed for you hun
 
I have a mare just like yours I spoke to the lady on her passport and she said she had taken her in part exchange and they were a dealing yard and had her 6 weeks and not one person had stayed on her! They had put her through a sales ring! (nice one! NOT) The one and only time I got on her it was a rodeo act and it was a question how fast can you bale out before she kills me! She has however given me four lovely foals so far. She is a very good mum inspite of being a bit of a cow to others. I will not pass her on if something happens I will have her PTS.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Interestingly, everyone who has spoken about their bucker has had a mare..............

[/ QUOTE ]

Noticed this, too - geldings are too stupid to learn tricks and keep them in the back of their mind till a grumpy day
tongue.gif
obviously.

Honestly, though, I would think it was unlikely that all these buckers had undiagnosed problems that would cause the behaviour -

I know with my mare that I causes a lot of the problems we first had with her bucking by not knowing her & not realising how sensitive she was and we hadn't yet clicked, so with mares a lot of it is personality issues I think considering my horse is now the sweetest little lamb in the world.
 
I have to ask why when you're not keen on riding a bucker, did you buy a bucker?
First things first, I would get a full physical work up done, then concentrate on basic schooling, as bucking trot-canter can be simply due to being unbalanced.
Then I would re evaluate. The simple fact is though if you're not brave enough to get on her (and tbh-buying a project you have to be brave enough to get on..) you'll either have to send her for schooling or turn her away.
 
This was me a year ago!

Bought my mare (yes another one) as a project who had been out of work for over a year. Spoke to the previous previous owner who told me that she had had instructors off left right and centre and that her last instructor refused to get on her anymore as she would rodeo until she was off.

Unfortunately as much as I tried to ignore this information and remember the lovely mare I rode when I tried her it seriously knocked my confidence and I would stand on the mounting block shaking.

I got an instructor in and we have taken things very very slowly with my girly and so far she has been fab. She has only ever done 2 bucks on one occassion when she was in season and my instructor felt I "told" her to do something too strongly. I'm not great at sitting on a bucker so was unseated, if she'd have wanted me off a 3rd buck would have easily done it!

I think you need to go with gut instinct and see how you gel with the horse. Take things slowly and get someone on the ground to help with confidence.
 
[ QUOTE ]
could she not be used as a broodmare if otherwise unsuitable for riding.

[/ QUOTE ]

NO! Why is it that if a mare is unsuitable for riding people consider them suitable for breeding from. Mares pass down more than sires IMO and only the BEST should be bred from. Really gets me downhearted that anyone would consider breeding from an animal that has obvious flaws
frown.gif
 
I'll disagree with others, I'm afraid. If the bucking worries you - and you've said it does - then life is too short and you only have one body. Find a home who will give her a chance passing on full information about her (but this may be impossible) or give her on loan as a companion if she is quiet in the field (reatining ownership so she's not passed on as a project again) or have her pts. Please don't breed from a mare who is not especially talented and has issues.

Let us know what you decide - and good luck!
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
could she not be used as a broodmare if otherwise unsuitable for riding.

[/ QUOTE ]

NO! Why is it that if a mare is unsuitable for riding people consider them suitable for breeding from. Mares pass down more than sires IMO and only the BEST should be bred from. Really gets me downhearted that anyone would consider breeding from an animal that has obvious flaws
frown.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

i know what you are saying makes sense in principle but my trainers has a serial bronker (that nobody could ever stay on) and she is now a super super broodmare- has thrown some lovely well mannered foals. i'm not saying that this mare would be worth breeding from but its a possibility if she is good in other respects- conformationally etc...
Re. the OP- and riding her- it depends what you mean by the fact that she is a serial bucker...a lot of the descriptions on here sound like horses that just buck a lot...as opposed to serial buckers that will bronc and bronc until they get you off...time and again. the former can be fixed/dealt with the latter can't IMHO
frown.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
could she not be used as a broodmare if otherwise unsuitable for riding.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah good plan!! Then she can breed herrself another lovely rearing/bucking bronco horse for her daughter to have instead of this one!

mad.gif
 
I would not recommend you try this yourself but: I spent a day with two people who take on problem horses. One was a chronic bucker and was considered unrideable. They had worked with this horse over a period of two weeks after I saw it. At first I was alarmed at what they did but it did work and the horse has not bucked since and is being ridden daily. They used a belt (like the ones the rodeo use to make horses buck) I think it was called a synch (sp). They lunged with with this on. By god did it buck! I have never seen anything like it. Basically, they said that it taught the horse that by bucking it will achieve nothing and that nothing is going to happen to them so in the end it gives up. I admit I was shocked at first as I had always thought that avoidance of the problem was best, but to be fair, it DID work.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I would not recommend you try this yourself but: I spent a day with two people who take on problem horses. One was a chronic bucker and was considered unrideable. They had worked with this horse over a period of two weeks after I saw it. At first I was alarmed at what they did but it did work and the horse has not bucked since and is being ridden daily. They used a belt (like the ones the rodeo use to make horses buck) I think it was called a synch (sp). They lunged with with this on. By god did it buck! I have never seen anything like it. Basically, they said that it taught the horse that by bucking it will achieve nothing and that nothing is going to happen to them so in the end it gives up. I admit I was shocked at first as I had always thought that avoidance of the problem was best, but to be fair, it DID work.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you read the books by Henry Blake, he said the same thing, once the horse realises they are achieving nothing by bucking, they give it up. He used to ride ALL the problem horses that he specialised in rehabilitating. His books, although very UN-PC are a superb read and I found them fascinating, entertaining and informative.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top