'Just not right'

[Twiglet]

Hi all, wonder if anyone would be able to offer any pearls of wisdom on my current situation.

I have a 16 year old TB x Trakehner gelding, up until a couple of weeks ago in light to medium work - hacked twice a week, schooled 3 times a week.
Reason he stopped work was due to a foot injury, thought to have bruised sole on a hack. We went up to the vets, shoe came off, and we had a week or so of poulticing and restricted turn out. Farrier put shoe back on and foot was looking ok, other than a bit footsore which we expected after a week without shoes and typical TB feet.

This weekend I tried bringing him back into work and he was noticeably stiff - although he did loosen up slightly after 15 minutes gentle walk work.

He broke a hind leg 8 years ago and has been on Cortaflex ever since - around a month ago I switched over to Gold Label Pure Glucosamine.

Last night when trotted up he looked 'unsound' - not unlevel, and not lame, but unsound - stiff. Just not right.
I do don't think it's his foot as it didn't look a footy lameness, but he didn't look comfortable.

I don't want to get the vet out just yet because I know they'll instantly want to go down the scans/nerveblocks/extensive test route.

Could the stiffness be due to the switch in supplements? Especially at this time of year?
Any other ideas about what I should be looking for?

Sorry for the long post, wanted to make sure I didn't miss any info out!

 

[hollyzippo]

Could be due to not getting the same benefit from change in supplement.
As a spinal therapist I see a lot of horses who are stiff after a minor injury has healed. May be that the change in gait when he was unsound in the foot has made him a bit stiff in the upper limb or back?
Get a lot referred to me post injury that are tight or stiff from changing their movement to cope with the injury. Might be worth having him checked if u r sure the bruised sole has fully healed?

 

[Twiglet]

Very true. I have a brilliant back lady, who's due out soon so I'll have her check him over.

 

[miamibear]

i would say it could be due to the change in supplement, glucosamine on its own isnt as effective without chondroitin sulphate. Together they absorb in to the body better. I would suggest changing back.

If expense is a prob have a look at vetvits equiflex. Its quite good, thats what most feed on our yard. It worked on a 22yo stiff pony, she is now sound as a pound!!

xx

 

[Fleur100]

I too have experienced similar with my 15 year old TB after injury. My chiropractor is also a muscle release therapist and he was very tight when he came back into work. I would recommend you get an appropriate therapist to check him out.

 

[Tierra]

Cortaflex and pure glucosamine are quite different products. Was there a specific reason for your change? I'd consider popping him back onto the cortaflex and see if that makes any difference. What works for some horses doesnt for others and it could well be that cortaflex suits your boy.

If you do want to try other supplements, there are some pretty potent ones out there (Newmarket Joint Supplement and Synequin both spring to mind). Theres also the option of trying the vet strength cortaflex if you feel that cortaflex itself suits your boy but you want a bit more strength to it.

Has he suffered with stiffness in the winter before? Many slightly older horses will start to get puffy legs and suffer stiffness after being stood for a while at this time of year. Have you considered bandaging / leg wraps / magnotherapy type products? Magnotherapy will help boost his circulation which can combat stiffness problems. Leg wraps and bandages will keep the joints warm and help prevent them seizing up. Bandages are obviously more supportive than leg wraps but unless you are good at bandaging, I'd stick to leg wraps.

You mention that at the weekend he felt stiff but walked it off after 15 minutes or so. When you trotted him up last night was it the same kind of stiffness? Or are you thinking he's worse? Again, if he's walking it off, I'd be more inclined to think its a general circulation issue and try some of the above (bandaging / magnotherapy / leg wraps etc). Is he on less turnout now the weather is cold - i.e. is he stood in more?

In my personal opinion, id try wrapping his legs and popping him back onto the cortaflex and then see how he is. Give the cortaflex a week or so to get into his system again and keep trotting him up. If he gets worse, then yes, Id then call the vet. Remember that you can stress to them from the outset that you only want to scan and such as a last resort! They can only ADVISE you on what to do.

I had a old mare who went slightly lame last year and the vets couldnt put their finger on what was wrong. However, she was in light work at best after having suffered a complete degloving of a hind leg years before. I told them right from word go that because of her history, I wanted to cover every other option before starting to look at scans / xray. In the end it turned out to be nothing more than a pulled muscle that healed on its own after a few weeks off.

Hope some of the above helps and i hope your boy starts feeling better again

 

[Twiglet]

Thanks for your replies all.

Reason I changed from Cortaflex - I was slightly concerned about the rumours of animal ingredients in Cortaflex (I stopped using cod liver oil years ago because I wasn't comfortable with this), and another of the horses on my yard - similar age and history - was doing great on pure glucosamine. So I thought I'd give it a shot. My vet isn't much help on any supplements because he doesn't think any of them are sufficiently proven to be worth recommending!

He has been turned out a bit less, but not dramatically, and he's on new grazing so is mooching around lots to take advantage of fresh grass.

He's not normally a 'filled leg' or particularly stiff kind of horse, but has been on odd ocassions (he is half TB after all!).
The stiffness I've seen under saddle and on last night's trot up, is a short stepping, sort of generally stiff and uncomfortable movement.......

Really appreciate all your input, I feel a bit more at ease with it now. I'm going to start getting some Cortaflex in him tonight, start putting his Thermatex wraps on at night, and have the back lady out this weekend to check him over. Will see how this works, and in the meantime will be doing inhand work to keep him a bit more mobile.

 

[BethH]

Sounds like back to me if he is a bit stiff and short in the stride. Maybe he has been holding himself slightly differently because of soreness and that has caused some muscle tension, a good back person would be my first point of call.
As for back supplements, I was trying to decide which was best am still confused but phoned Cortaflex who told me it wasn't the levels of each of the ingredient that was important but the molecular structure apparently theirs is more easily absorbed and retained by the body and it is that that makes it more effective - make of that what you will, trying to get them to tell me ingredient levels was impossible they don't reveal that to anyone apparently!

 

[Twiglet]

Have just booked the back lady to come out asap. She's phenomenal, and has been treating him for 10 years now, so knows him and his history very well.

He's bored as anything with no work though, so am going to have to start playing some games or something to occupy his overactive brain. May try long reining again, although not sure if I should be doing this when he's stiff?

I've heard that about Cortaflex and the molecules too - just noticed there's been a bit of an anti-Cortaflex feeling lately, perhaps because of all the other alternatives available now.
It's so hard to know which is best because obviously every manufacturer tries to convince that their's is!

 

[Tierra]

Equine America have claimed for a long time that glucosamine and chondroitin molecules are generally too large to be absorbed from the gut. If you look at their site, they'll give the exact figures but I seem to remember they claimed only 2% of the molecules ever ended up at their final destination (the joints obviously) and the rest was wasted.

They therefore use smaller molecules that can be more readily absorbed.

Whether or not all that is true, I cant say!

Aside from that, Ive also been told by a vet exactly the same as another poster commented - that glucosamine alone is useless to horses and is only effective when its combined with chondroitin (which it is in cortaflex).

I do feed cortaflex, although its as a preventative measure as my boy *touches wood* has zero wrong with him.

There was a huge discussion on joint supplements in the new lounge just a few days ago (it should be on about page 3 or 4 now) with Synequin and Newmarket Joint Supplement all receiving good reviews. They're both very expensive though and I think both of them were working out at between £30 - £40 per month to feed. As you correctly say though, all manufacturers argue that their's is best.

Ive used cortaflex on many horses and i have seen improvements on other animals. In my current case, I honestly cant say that it's definitly making a difference, because he has no problems and I think this is precisely the difficulty with joint supplements.

If your horse is stiff rather than anything else, I honestly dont think some long reining will hurt him. You might find the opposite and see any improvement if he's doing some light work.

Hope you get to the bottom of it all anyway!

ETS :- If you want to take a look at the thread regarding joint supplements, its here:-

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1507183/an/0/page/4#1507183

 

[Twiglet]

Quick update - did lots of stretches with stiff boy last night, and it definitely seemed to loosen him up. His trot up was much more comfortable than the night before.

So fingers crossed this is just an 'old man in winter' thing, and after a bit of TLC, he'll find things a bit easier.

 

[lennysmith]

No advice on your boy as I'm rubbish with things like this! But can I ask which back lady you have?

 

[henryhorn]

we can see the difference if we run out of cortaflex, even to using powder instead of liquid.
I would put him back on even using the loading dose and see if he loosens up again.

 

[TURBOBERT]

I swear by Cortaflex - out 17 year old eventer hasnt had a days unsoundness and I attribute it to Cortaflex

 

[Lottie7]

Sounds like classic symptoms of EPSM. Keeping him in a little more than usual together with slightly richer grass may well be enough to trigger this soreness. Some horses are so suceptible that just the sugar in apples can effect them! The muscles cannot break down sugar and starch and therefore become hard, sore and lose their elacticity. It is fairly easy to rectify with a change of feed and careful management. Have a google and look at the work of Dr Beth Valentine on the Rural Heritage web site. It is quite common in warmbloods etc so don't be put off by the reference to drafts. My event horse had it. Some of his symptoms over the years were exactly as you describe. Just an inexplicable offness. Physio really helps EPSM horses but without changing the feed the symptoms will only return. I had years of this and just wish I'd found the cause earlier.

Good luck.
x

 

[Twiglet]

Hey JosieJo, how are you doing? I use Jane Pennick (aka 'The Blind Lady'!) - swear by her treatments, he has them every 3 months. Plus she's extremely reasonable, which is a rarity in the horseworld! She's only based in Brentwood.

Quick update - he is now back on the loading dose of the Cortaflex, is having his legs wrapped at night, and is doing stretches once a day.
We tried long reining on Saturday, and he was 100 times improved - and incredibly keen to be in work!
His strides were much freer and easier, his trot was sound, and he was generally much more back to his normal self. So am going to give him another couple of days long reining, then will try riding later this week.

Thanks for all your input.