K&M cob slipping sideways

[Elno]

I have recently after what feels like trying a billion saddles on my very sensitive and opinionated Oldenburger mare found a saddle she likes that isn't a jump saddle (I don't jump, at all). It is unfortunately not the lovely, buttery-soft leather, expensive dressage saddle I have envisioned for us, but a Kent & Master cob saddle. Still, it's better for my position riding dressage (I have removed the thigh blocks) than a jump saddle where your legs are up at your chin like some giant insect.

Unfortunately after been riding in it for a couple of weeks I have encountered a problem. It slips a bit to the right.

Now, the horse does not have a hind limb lameness, I am not crooked and we haven't encountered this issue with other saddles, including her jump saddle. So it must be the cob saddle, right?

My question is: If I girth the saddle like advised for roly poly cobs, ie point +balance strap on left and point + third strap on right the slipping stops. Is that acceptable to do even long term? Will it hurt my horse, and will the saddle become crooked?

 

[TheMule]

Is the saddle new? If not, have you had it completely checked by your saddler, because there must be something physically wrong with one part of the equation and you say you’ve ruled out you and the horse so……

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Sounds like it's not fitting I can't believe a KM saddle was your only option maybe a different fitter is in order.

What saddles have you tried?

 

[meesha]

My horse is 100% sound but saddle has started slipping left. Had saddle fitter, saddle is totally fine but now have back lady (diff one to a few months ago) Wednesday as he has a slight dip on one side, poss caused by compensating for sore neck he had a while back. Saddle fitter has shimmed pad to compensate while he rebuilds muscle.

She also said make sure if girth elastic, elastic is on both sides.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

What pad are you using to shim and how has she put the shims?

 

[Elno]

The saddle is brand new. I tried it with an Acavallo gel pad between the saddle and saddle cloth (won't use it directly on the horse) and it still slips a bit. The horse is a bit overweight, mutton withered and very broad over her back, she has the white, XW gullet in in the saddle. But still this is the first time I've had a slippage problem Hacked her in her jump saddle today and it stayed completely put.

I have tried 20- 25 different saddles on her, and the latest one that my saddlefitter swore was a perfect match for her made her very sore because it was too narrow and had long points that dug into her wither, so I will not have that saddle fitter out ever again since it's not the first time nor the first horse she made sore unfortunately.

 

[Elno]

Sounds like it's not fitting I can't believe a KM saddle was your only option maybe a different fitter is in order.

What saddles have you tried?

You're probably right, that it doesn't fit. My saddlefitter, which I now have fired because she couldn't find a fitting saddle and made my horse very, very sore in the process thought that it wasn't a perfect fit.

I will just have to continue with the abhorent jump saddle I guess until I can find a dressage one she accepts

 

[sbloom]

Horse-saddle-rider is a complex equation, some fitters are better at addressing it holistically than others. It sounds like the saddle doesn't work but equally the research done so far shows a well fitting saddle is more likely to slip than an ill fitted one. I'm not sure this is 100% true but it's definitely true that a better fitting saddle can show up underlying issues with horse or rider.

I find K&M saddles seldom optimise the rider, and without the rider being really well aligned that alone can cause issues. I'm not a great fan of how they fit wider backs, I think there are much better options. There is no reason you can't find a dressage saddle to work for her but you may need to search for more alternative fitters/brands.

 

[Elno]

Horse-saddle-rider is a complex equation, some fitters are better at addressing it holistically than others. It sounds like the saddle doesn't work but equally the research done so far shows a well fitting saddle is more likely to slip than an ill fitted one. I'm not sure this is 100% true but it's definitely true that a better fitting saddle can show up underlying issues with horse or rider.

I find K&M saddles seldom optimise the rider, and without the rider being really well aligned that alone can cause issues. I'm not a great fan of how they fit wider backs, I think there are much better options. There is no reason you can't find a dressage saddle to work for her but you may need to search for more alternative fitters/brands.

Hm, very interesting Sbloom! This saddle is the only one of the ones I've ridden her in that slides to the side.

Yes I haven't quite lost all hope in fitting her with a dressage saddle yet Surely there must be one out there that she will approve of. In September we're going to try a new saddlefitter so hopefully it will get sorted then.

 

[Fjord]

Is she evenly muscled at the shoulder? I only ask as I have a K&M too and my mare had slightly less muscle on one shoulder. She needed slight padding on one side of the saddle cloth to allow for the muscle to build up and stop slippage.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Those Saddles have plastic trees which I find can move a lot plus they tend to do very little for the rider.
The saddle may be slipping because of the plastic tree alone. I've ridden in a couple of theirs that I thought were great on the more sports horse type , but on my cob I found these Saddles awful! Basically felt like it was rolling around on him due to his flat back and the soft tree. This was despite the saddle shape fitting my cob.

Definitely get a new fitter , someone recommended who will fit for both you and your horse.
I've got a Lavinia Mitchell jump saddle that's not very forward cut , more like a GP,.that suits my cob's wide and flat back.

 

[sbloom]

Is she evenly muscled at the shoulder? I only ask as I have a K&M too and my mare had slightly less muscle on one shoulder. She needed slight padding on one side of the saddle cloth to allow for the muscle to build up and stop slippage.

No horse is truly symmetrical, actually it's the rotation of the ribcage that's the biggest factor in saddle slip in my opinion, the uneven shoulders (it's more bone alignment than muscling) are due to that rotation and the asymmetric movement patterns that result.

Those Saddles have plastic trees which I find can move a lot plus they tend to do very little for the rider.
The saddle may be slipping because of the plastic tree alone. I've ridden in a couple of theirs that I thought were great on the more sports horse type , but on my cob I found these Saddles awful! Basically felt like it was rolling around on him due to his flat back and the soft tree. This was despite the saddle shape fitting my cob.

Agreed. There are as many definitions of a "correct fit" as there are saddle fitters, and with even my two brands they fit incredibly differently. I would argue that these saddles don't fit in the way I'd want them to, on any horse, but other fitters can get decent results on some. I just never see them 100% optimise horse and rider as a pairing (a high bar!).

@Elno where are you in the world?

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Those Saddles have plastic trees which I find can move a lot plus they tend to do very little for the rider.
The saddle may be slipping because of the plastic tree alone. I've ridden in a couple of theirs that I thought were great on the more sports horse type , but on my cob I found these Saddles awful! Basically felt like it was rolling around on him due to his flat back and the soft tree. This was despite the saddle shape fitting my cob.

Definitely get a new fitter , someone recommended who will fit for both you and your horse.
I've got a Lavinia Mitchell jump saddle that's not very forward cut , more like a GP,.that suits my cob's wide and flat back.

I use Lavinia Mitchell Dressage saddles on my 2 one is wide the other is xxw they fit lovely and I have no slipping even on the flat very wide one, I find them so comfortable for me as well lovely saddles.

 

[Elno]

No horse is truly symmetrical, actually it's the rotation of the ribcage that's the biggest factor in saddle slip in my opinion, the uneven shoulders (it's more bone alignment than muscling) are due to that rotation and the asymmetric movement patterns that result.



Agreed. There are as many definitions of a "correct fit" as there are saddle fitters, and with even my two brands they fit incredibly differently. I would argue that these saddles don't fit in the way I'd want them to, on any horse, but other fitters can get decent results on some. I just never see them 100% optimise horse and rider as a pairing (a high bar!).

@Elno where are you in the world?

Sweden! If I had been in the UK I would have contacted you long ago

 

[Sossigpoker]

I use Lavinia Mitchell Dressage saddles on my 2 one is wide the other is xxw they fit lovely and I have no slipping even on the flat very wide one, I find them so comfortable for me as well lovely saddles.

I honestly adore my LM jump /GP. My lovely saddle fitter actually found it for me , second hand . She was trained by Lavinia so knows the Saddles well and hand a hunch that it might fit my boy - and it did!

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I honestly adore my LM jump /GP. My lovely saddle fitter actually found it for me , second hand . She was trained by Lavinia so knows the Saddles well and hand a hunch that it might fit my boy - and it did!

Love my saddles I had Lavinia fit one for Arabi 11 years ago when his back was in a state from saddles not fitting, best money I ever spent he immediately felt amazing in her saddle so I bought a new one from her.

His back eventually came good took a few years but I'm so glad I did it he completely changed shape because he could actually move in it.

Then when I got Louis I struggled with slipping saddles so I eventually found one that fitted him and its been great, his is a flatter tree so just totally works for us.

So glad your happy with yours everyone who ever rides on mine say how comfy they are.

 

[black and brown]

Have you considered contacting Andrea Hicks at AH saddles? I believe that she can advise and maybe fit a saddle remotely based on appropriate photos.

 

[sbloom]

Have you considered contacting Andrea Hicks at AH saddles? I believe that she can advise and maybe fit a saddle remotely based on appropriate photos.

Definitely worth a look, Andrea will work with any fitter to help you find a saddle.

 

[Elno]

Have you considered contacting Andrea Hicks at AH saddles? I believe that she can advise and maybe fit a saddle remotely based on appropriate photos.

I guess I can always ask

 

[sbloom]

I will come back (having re-read your initial post) and say asymmetric girthing is completely normal. If the saddle really works for both of you (often riders don't get on with them that well) then that alone isn't a reason to switch. I'd be looking to yours and the horse's asymmetry, it's not well known that a well fitting saddle is at least as likely to slip as it allows the horse to move more not less, showing up the asymmetry. And if it doesn't sit you well it will make you more wonky of course.

 

[Elno]

I will come back (having re-read your initial post) and say asymmetric girthing is completely normal. If the saddle really works for both of you (often riders don't get on with them that well) then that alone isn't a reason to switch. I'd be looking to yours and the horse's asymmetry, it's not well known that a well fitting saddle is at least as likely to slip as it allows the horse to move more not less, showing up the asymmetry. And if it doesn't sit you well it will make you more wonky of course.

Thank you!

The funny thing is is that she truly adores the saddle and moves so much more freely in it, even compared to her jump saddle. It's the only saddle (including the jump one which btw, the saddlefitter approved the fit of) that she happily trots and canters in and doesn't resist.

Perhaps it is just as you implied- since she moves better and bigger- the saddle is more likely to slip.

I'm completely fine with it actually so maybe we'll ride in it and see.