Keep, sell, loan - HELP!

[ester]

I'd worry about his canter, I've seen a few videos of him at various times and he seems to go four time an awful lot.

He absolutely would potentially be my sort of type, but the muscle issues would put me off.

 

[paddy555]

Because PSSM however mild IS an issue and the majority of people wont want to deal with it once they look into it. If someone had viewed and did the usual google search on him and found the posts about PSSM etc that would be a deal breaker for most.

Theres also schooled to medium as in going ok and can do some of the movements but isn't happy at that level, and then theres schooled to medium as in established and working easily at that level.

Hes got no competition record, isn't an established hunter, hes just going to make a nice horse for someone to have low level fun on, but that's if he is sound and passes a vetting. Hes the sort of horse I quite often find myself looking out for for friends, but based on that video I'd advise them not to view and that's the reality of the market. People are prepared to pay for what they want, but they want it sound and easy with no ifs or buts.

I think he is a lovely horse and I see no reason to keep him if you prefer a different type. Also no reason to loan unless you want him back. However the first para of the above would be the problem as far as his value goes. I have one PSSM. I would never get rid of him but be does take a lot more worry and planning and I always know in the back of my mind something could go wrong. I would never buy another that I had the slightest doubt over on the muscle department. High dose vit E oil needed to maintain these horses as standard is expensive.

The other thing that would put me off is the video. I don't like the spurs and the horse seems to need a lot of leg to keep him going. Maybe that is because he is just working about the level that mentally or physically he can cope with (which is a very good reason to sell) and would prefer something less active. I think the idea of 6k is beyond ludicrous. maybe 3k without the possible PSSM and a lot less because of it. I wonder if the new owner would have difficulty in insuring him with PSSM type background? They would have to know about it as the reason why they had to use high dose vit E and they would have to declare it when taking out insurance.

 

[CJoe]

I was in a similar position to you until I had a major unexpected health problem and needed some surgery. Best thing I ever did was then look to my solid (if not naughty on occasion) best boy, would have been stuffed finding something suitable with out him!!!

 

[Tiddlypom]

Is he still cow phobic? This would knock his value down a lot even if he vets sound, as his target market is likely to be the happy hacker/low level competition rider. It would be a no go here in dairy country. From 2017.

Henry threw a complete fit at a herd of heifers at a gate the other day. He's the third I've had who was seriously afraid of cows.

It's all out there, along with the PSSM and stifle issues, to be found on the internet by a potential buyer. It doesn't mean he's not a good buy for someone IF he's sound, but he's not quite the straightforward/no issues horse described in the OP.

 

[Vodkagirly]

Keep, sell, loan.

I've got a horrible dilemma. I bought Henry as a four year old four years ago to break and sell. I wanted to test whether I could be happy in my old age riding a stockier, slower horse. I bought a 'sports horse', at the same time, who was supposed to be for keeps. The sports horse turned out to be a spooky fellow who I could never really relax on. I didn't feel I was the right rider for him or him the right horse for me, so I sold him last year after trying to get on with him for four years. During those four years Henry was my star, doing so much more that I ever thought he could.

Until this autumn. Now I'm riding my three year old who is reminding me what it's like to ride a horse who is naturally up in front of you and really carries you forward. And Henry is beginning to struggle to get beyond the level he is at now, which is just about BD medium, at the lower end, plus single flying changes.

I'm not sure I'm being fair to him to ask for more, but I'm not happy if we have to stop where we are. I feel I'm giving him too hard a time and life is in danger of being all work and no play for him.

He hacks alone and in company, but again I keep feeling that I want something with more zip when we are out. He hunts fantastically, but I don't want to hunt with the ones around here any more. The drag doesn't feel safe and the rest almost openly hunt fox.

So, good peeps of HHO, help me work this though. Should I sell him? If I do will I regret it? Should I loan him to hedge my bets? What happens then if I take him of the loaner to sell him? Should I just keep him and try to accept that I don't really enjoy riding him a lot of the time these days? How can I motivate myself to work him enough to keep him slim next year if I have a four year old I prefer riding in full work?

Aaaaaaarghh, he is such a super boy. What shall I dooooo????

View attachment 27042

I would wait. He sounds like the type that sounds very hard to replace. While your 3 year old maybe more naturally talented, they are also more lightly to test you and your confidence. If you have a bad day, its good to have a comfy pair of slippers to put on and remind you that you can ride and have fun.

 

[Michen]

Is he still cow phobic? This would knock his value down a lot even if he vets sound, as his target market is likely to be the happy hacker/low level competition rider. It would be a no go here in dairy country. From 2017.

Henry threw a complete fit at a herd of heifers at a gate the other day. He's the third I've had who was seriously afraid of cows.

It's all out there, along with the PSSM and stifle issues, to be found on the internet by a potential buyer. It doesn't mean he's not a good buy for someone IF he's sound, but he's not quite the straightforward/no issues horse described in the OP.

Guess it depends on what is meant by throwing a complete fit as that sounds more dangerous than a spook/buck/spin. I wouldn’t be best pleased if my sharp, fit 6 year old “threw a fit” at anything with me on board these days, however scared. He is meant to know better by now!

 

[9tails]

This thread is a warning to anybody ever thinking of selling their horse, far too many detectives on HHO!

 

[milliepops]

I think it is fair to mention what's written on the internet though, went to view some horses recently with someone else and the first thing you do these days is look online to see what you can find about the horse and the seller.

 

[ycbm]

Because most people who want that type of horse are not prepared to pay that kind of money. Similar horses can be found for far less.

I doubt it.

He does travers, renvers, shoulder in, half pass and leg yield in all three paces. And flying changes, rein back, counter canter, tof, simple changes. He will do a show jumping course including a metre high spread with pretty well perfect technique. Ditto all types of cross country fences, taking the rider into the fence and without tanking off afterwards. . Hacking in the heaviest and worst possible traffic, alone and in company. No vices or foibles of any kind, good to do in every single respect, without exception.

People think every single horse I post a video of on this forum is unsound. Perhaps it's me 😊.

He has improved and improved over four years. He is continuing to improve. There is no 'loss of performance'. He is not a naturally rhythmic horse. He is a naturally bum high cart horse cross, who has learnt to carry himself counter to his build really well. It is totally unnatural to him to carry his neck as high as he is now being asked for. . He can improve further still. BUT. I don't think he is enjoying being asked to work at the level I want him to, and that's what really matters.

 

[ycbm]

I think it is fair to mention what's written on the internet though, went to view some horses recently with someone else and the first thing you do these days is look online to see what you can find about the horse and the seller.

Nobody needs to with me, I am a completely honest warts and all seller.

 

[ycbm]

Is he still cow phobic? This would knock his value down a lot even if he vets sound, as his target market is likely to be the happy hacker/low level competition rider. It would be a no go here in dairy country. From 2017.

Henry threw a complete fit at a herd of heifers at a gate the other day. He's the third I've had who was seriously afraid of cows.

It's all out there, along with the PSSM and stifle issues, to be found on the internet by a potential buyer. It doesn't mean he's not a good buy for someone IF he's sound, but he's not quite the straightforward/no issues horse described in the OP.

He has grown out of the stifle issues. He is no longer cow phobic, that was the first time he had seen any.

 

[ycbm]

I would wait. He sounds like the type that sounds very hard to replace. While your 3 year old maybe more naturally talented, they are also more lightly to test you and your confidence. If you have a bad day, its good to have a comfy pair of slippers to put on and remind you that you can ride and have fun.

Selling him and then regretting selling him is what I am afraid of. Also keeping him and then resenting having to exercise him. It's a very difficult situation, which is why I've asked for everyone's help to decide what to do.

 

[milliepops]

Nobody needs to with me, I am a completely honest warts and all seller.

that may be, I'd still do some digging if I was going to see a horse be foolish not to, EVERY seller says they are honest

Does he need to carry his neck higher? I'm just thinking I don't tend to think about making Kira's neck higher, she's also a horse built completely wrong for her job but she enjoys her work, we tend to think about sitting behind and having the back round and hindlegs under, then the withers can come up and the neck more or less is a product of that. No skin off my nose either way, if you don't enjoy riding him then there's no point keeping him and I'm sure if he is as described then lots of people would enjoy a horse like that.

 

[Asha]

if he doesn't float your boat, sell him. Someone will enjoy him for what he is. Worrying about what ifs etc is a waste of time.

As for a value, tough one, id want to see videos of him jumping before id think he was worth more than £5k

 

[ycbm]

that may be, I'd still do some digging if I was going to see a horse be foolish not to, EVERY seller says they are honest

Does he need to carry his neck higher? I'm just thinking I don't tend to think about making Kira's neck higher, she's also a horse built completely wrong for her job but she enjoys her work, we tend to think about sitting behind and having the back round and hindlegs under, then the withers can come up and the neck more or less is a product of that. No skin off my nose either way, if you don't enjoy riding him then there's no point keeping him and I'm sure if he is as described then lots of people would enjoy a horse like that.

'Carrying the neck higher' is simply my shorthand for the paragraph you have written.

I have no fear of anyone doing an internet search because I would not attempt to hide anything.

 

[milliepops]

'Carrying the neck higher' is simply my shorthand for the paragraph you have written.

ok seemed an odd thing to write, that's all. Maybe that's why other people also misunderstand you sometimes.

 

[SpringArising]

Really?
Last year I sold a 16hh ID. Safe and sane. Dull as ditchwater. Completely unathletic. Unproven competitively. Sold in 3 days for 6.5k to the first viewer with at least 10 disappointed people in the wings

Yes, but IDs are FAR more desirable and fashionable than (in YCBM's own words) a cart-horse with PSSM and a bad canter...

I think 3.5-4k is reasonable.

 

[ycbm]

ok seemed an odd thing to write, that's all. Maybe that's why other people also misunderstand you sometimes.

I'm having a hard time with this, can you give me a break, please?

 

[ycbm]

Yes, but IDs are FAR more desirable and fashionable than (in YCBM's own words) a cart-horse with PSSM and a bad canter...

I think 3.5-4k is reasonable.

Yup, really wishing I hadn't started this thread now. Should have known better 😒

 

[Cortez]

Yup, really wishing I hadn't started this thread now. Should have known better 😒

Indeed you should.....best of luck with finding him a smart new owner, or not, as you decide.

 

[Michen]

I think YCBM you have probably slightly made a rod for your own back with this one You are quick to comment on soundness/lack of/issues/potentially inflammatory or upsetting thoughts on other people's threads so it is probably no surprise people have done so on yours albiet you did not invite comments on his value or soundness so arguably they should not be given.

I have always really appreciated your knowledge and help (particularly of hooves) over the years and been genuinely worried and concerned about your opinion and thoughts. That said, I would be unhappy if that was my horse in the video. I class myself as a very average and untalented rider, I probably school my horse once every couple of weeks and can just about get myself around a 90 on a very genuine horse, but even I can see that he does not present a happy picture and that's throughout the most basic of walk/trot/canter movements.

I hope that doesn't come across as an attack, you know as well as anyone that my knowledge is limited, but I would hope that if I posted a video of Boggle looking like that and was unable to see it (as we all often are with our own horses) that it would be pointed out.

 

[ihatework]

Ultimately it doesn’t matter what anyone on here thinks he is worth, or not worth. It boils down to how much he is worth to you to sell and if you can’t achieve that price then you keep him.

The market will always decide! And that will be the key to selling him - if he is genuinely safe and easy to take a nervous rider anywhere then you pitch it that way. They won’t care too much at this stage about whether he can half pass or jump 1m.

What I would say is it would be worth trying to get some nervous types to sit on him before advertising, some horses pick up on the vibe and actually aren’t quite as safe as you first think

 

[JFTDWS]

What do people reckon he's worth?

albiet you did not invite comments on his value or soundness so arguably they should not be given.

To be fair, Michen, ycbm did do exactly that. And the soundness is highly relevant to the horse's value.

 

[Michen]

To be fair, Michen, ycbm did exactly that. And the soundness is highly relevant to the horse's value.

To be fair, Michen, ycbm did exactly that. And the soundness is highly relevant to the horse's value.

Oh, I totally missed that...doh!

 

[JFTDWS]

Oh, I totally missed that...doh!

If she hadn't asked specifically, I would be inclined to agree with you!

 

[paddy555]

Selling him and then regretting selling him is what I am afraid of. Also keeping him and then resenting having to exercise him. It's a very difficult situation, which is why I've asked for everyone's help to decide what to do.

what are your precise reasons for thinking you could regret selling him? You don't like riding him, have to find incentive to do so and he will get fat and go back if you don't, if your youngster went tits up would you just go back to Henry or want something more active? You would rather spend your time with a more active TB type, Henry cannot progress to what you want. If Henry was for sale now would you go and buy him? I think not from your other comments. Not being mean just trying to find out if you really want to keep him. I can see you may be attached to him, have done a lot of work on him to produce a really nice horse etc but is this suficient.
You could have a serious accident and only be able to ride a seaside donkey afterwards but the probability of that may be relatively low and is it worth keeping him for years just for that possibility. If you got a TB type (which I suspect is what you want) would you have time to train that, ride the youngster who next year will be able to cope with more work and also ride Henry.

 

[JJS]

It's the nature of HHO, isn't it? This forum and the people on it are a truly wonderful resource for everyone who uses it, but brutal honesty comes with the territory. That said, I hope it's not been too disheartening for you to read some of the responses, YCBM. I've always found you wonderfully helpful and supportive, so I think a few of the more personal digs made are rather unfair, as well as entirely unnecessary.

 

[flying_high]

what are your precise reasons for thinking you could regret selling him? You don't like riding him, have to find incentive to do so and he will get fat and go back if you don't, if your youngster went tits up would you just go back to Henry or want something more active? You would rather spend your time with a more active TB type, Henry cannot progress to what you want. If Henry was for sale now would you go and buy him? I think not from your other comments. Not being mean just trying to find out if you really want to keep him. I can see you may be attached to him, have done a lot of work on him to produce a really nice horse etc but is this suficient.
You could have a serious accident and only be able to ride a seaside donkey afterwards but the probability of that may be relatively low and is it worth keeping him for years just for that possibility. If you got a TB type (which I suspect is what you want) would you have time to train that, ride the youngster who next year will be able to cope with more work and also ride Henry.

I sold in a similar but different situation, horse was 16 (but compact and sound and low mileage) and not enjoying what I wanted him to do. I didn't really enjoy riding the horse. I wanted him to be someone else's heart horse. He was still talented, sound, and very personable. MY fears on selling him, were that he wouldn't be loved, well looked after and happy, and I would regret and feel guilty. I owned him for 5 years, and I did and do love him, but the wrong horse is not sustainable. My biggest fear was failing to safeguard his future and doing wrong by him (or the lovely lady who sold him to me in the first place).

I did a five month loan with a view to buy, that ended end of January this year. His new owner adores him, he doesn't compete at the level I did, and his workload is different but she loves him just as he is. They are a much better fit together.

I might be tempted to do similar here. Either sell through word of mouth to someone who is happy horse is what they want from knowing him, or do a carefully managed loan to buy with a very careful vetting of the people.

The decision on paper to sell might be clear, but the actual doing it and living with it, when it is a horse you have had a while and are fond of, are much harder. Now I have sold the horse above, and it has worked, I don't know why I didn't do it years earlier, but it took me a while to get my head around doing it, and doing it in a way I could live with.

 

[claracanter]

I was in a similar position to you. I bought a RC all rounder after having a tricky TB. The new horse was the sweetest horse ever but without sparkle. I thought i could get him going more forward but after 3 years of trying I realised I wasn't enjoying competing on him. He was always behind the leg. I wanted something a bit more willing. As he was fifteen I decided I couldn't sell him so I found him the most terrific loan home where he is much loved.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Really?
Last year I sold a 16hh ID. Safe and sane. Dull as ditchwater. Completely unathletic. Unproven competitively. Sold in 3 days for 6.5k to the first viewer with at least 10 disappointed people in the wings. They are having a fantastic time with him low level RC/hunting/fun rides. I had to motivate myself just to get on him!

But they do need to pass a vet.

IDs tend to be more athletic than Shire crosses. OP has told us that this horse cannot progress past unaffiliated medium dressage. I like the type of horse, although I only buy mares, and have had 4 with Draft (Heavy horse) breeding, my IDx was way more athletic, having a longer leg to body ratio. This lad doesn't have long legs for his body. We know from OP's previous posts that he has PSSM and tbh he doesn't look sound in the video. I would suggest that he may have a poll/shoulder problem as he holds his head slightly sideways, unless he is bridle lame.