keeping horses abroad

M

moses06

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 March 2010
Messages
487
Visit site
To those who are outside of the UK I'm intrigued by your normal day to day management and what you feed etc and the competiton scene, do you have things we take for granted such as hay and compound feeds, local tack shops, good farriers etc - soooooo can you tell me what it's like??!:)
 
In Italy the main difference is the care regarding the weather. Here I bring my horses in when it's hot and sunny and leave them out as much as possible otherwise.

To be honest though the standard of care over here is generally very low, as they just don't know horses. For instance a woman said to me that it is cruel to keep horses out in a field.

Another place I worked at (quite a famous dressage yard in Italy) keeps their horses tied up in stalls all day every day. They *might* get some turn out if the weather is perfect, otherwise they only come out to be ridden around the school, or they might be lunged or walked for 10 minutes.

Nobody understand that horses should be tied up to string (they say it looks messy), even when their horse has had a few accidents due to this.

When they have a horse that is lame and unable to jump (which is the main sport here), they give it away as a 'light hack', usually to complete beginners and thus avoiding having to deal with the problem (consider that they probably paid upwards of 50k for this horse).

I've also met very few Italians that can actually ride, and they are usually a bit wimpy. Not all Italians, as I know a couple of good and brave riders, but in general.

Tack shops aplenty, vets are interesting and we do our own trimming as the farriers here are not taken through their paces as they are in england so why should I pay someone who knows less about horses than me? A good farrier is a rare and very expensive find over here! I'm lucky in that I have a friend who is a qualified farrier who does my shoeing.

Competition is mostly showjumping and gymkhana; but that doesn't mean little kids on ponies like I thought! It is big guys galloping their horses as fast as possible around a handy pony course.

The most ridiculous thing which I just found out a couple of days ago is that there is a new law stating you can't transport your horse in any one elses lorry or trailer (unless it's a registered transporter)! I know in the UK you can't do it for money, but here you can't do it full stop! I think that is beyond stupid to be honest.

Compound feeds are a bit of a problem yes; you can either get pony nuts or flaked maise. The really is little choice if for example you have a horse prone to laminitis but he needs feeding up, or you want energy for your school horses but you don't want them fizzed up etc. Hay is mostly awful (dusty and mouldy usually) or too rich; and there is no haylage. I'm very lucky to have found a good hay supplier (who is unfortunately 3 days late in his delivery and I'm starting to panic now!)

So theres my take on keeping horses in Italy! The upside is where I am (Chianti) I don't think there is a better place to ride out with your horse. Vineyards are also great for a good pipe-opener aswell as the horses have to stay in 'lanes' so you don't need to worry about horses galloping all over the fields. Is fun to race your friends this way too :)
 
Last edited:
Wow La Fiaba, you live in Chianti?! Jealous, moi?

I have kept horses both in Italy and in Germany, I would say that, first of all, you cannot generalise -- I know places in the UK which do not offer any turnout at all, and places in Italy where the horses are out 24/7...

Especially in Italy there is so much variety in terms of climate that what is true for the South is not necessarily true for the North; for instance, I know plenty of places in the North where the grass is as good as in Alpine meadows!

In my experience hay is often far, far better quality in Italy -- nobody feeds haylage either (I guess in the UK hay is so unreliable because of the weather, while in Italy you are guaranteed sunshine in April-May).

The main difference, I guess, is that it is extremely rare for people to have horses at home, in fact almost impossible if you want to compete (you have to be a member of a local riding school if you want to compete, which means that 95% of competition horses are stabled at a livery/training yard, as opposed to kept at home). Most horses are in schooling/competition livery; that's just how things are.

As for farriers, to be honest in my area (north-west) there are plenty of fully qualified farriers. My farrier was absolutely fabulous and not expensive at all either. Actually, there are farriery courses (which last a long time and are very, very thorough) but afaik these are not compulsory and therefore there can be quite a big difference between well-qualified farriers and those who have simply been somebody's apprentice for a while! Word of mouth is normally the best way to find a good farrier.

Competition-wise, there are no unaff competitions. Plenty of sj, dressage and eventing competitions, some very very nice internationals, but the main difference I guess is that for anything but local shows the horses get to the grounds on the Thu or Fri and are stabled there for the entire weekend. This can get expensive but for spooky horses (like mine!) it's absolutely ideal because they get to work in the competition arena before the competition actually starts! Nobody just trailers in on the day of the show, unless they are very very local (even so, my closest show was 20 mins and I chose to stable the horse there, as it was just easier).

As for Germany, again less turnout than the UK except for youngsters. Again most people have their horse in full competition/schooling livery, based at a trainer's yard.

Competitions are more similar to the UK (but no aff/unaff difference).

German farriers are *extremely* expensive; normal price for a full set of shoes (standard shoeing) seems to be between £100 and £150. Which is probably why young horses are only shod in front by default!

You cannot get insurance for vet fees, just death and LOU.

Virtually all yards have things which seem to be considered 'superfluous' or 'a bonus' in the UK, such as: indoor arena, solarium, horse walker, a good trainer based on site!

I think these are the main differences. I have the feeling that, in general, the yards on the Continent are 'better', or maybe 'posher' is the word I am looking for -- bigger boxes, more light, better surfaces etc. I have been to yards in the UK which were absolutely appalling, places where I would never, ever leave my horse for not even one night! This hasn't happened so far in Italy or Germany.

All in all, although I do like the idea of 24/7 turnout for some horses (though I would never leave mine out that long, I feel it would be counterproductive) I am very happy to have my horses in Germany. I feel you get far more for your money!
 
Just two points I forgot:

Feeding is not bad at all in Italy, you can't get quite the same range of brands you have in the UK, but Dodson & Horrell for instance is distributed in Italy, and so is St Hippolyt....both are excellent brands.

In Germany there are plenty of feed manufacturers, I especially like Pavo (although it's a Dutch brand) -- fantastic products.

La Fiaba's comment about string for tying horses: true, and also true in Germany, nobody uses it!

But I guess that people have a different perception of what is and isn't dangerous, for instance *all* of my Italian friends are completely horrified when I tell them that in the UK it's common to see horses who are turned out bootless and protection-less.....or that, God forbid, they are turned out in herds, and sometimes with horses who are shod behind!! I am sure that is equally dangerous :)
 
Kept horses in Chile and Aus.

In Chile horse owners can be divided into 3 categories:

1) Serious competition - apart from polo this has until recently been mainly members of the military. Stabled at large 'clubs' with no turn out but decent loose boxes. The horses are exercised by the grooms whos riding ability & responsibility can vary from simple walk, trot, easy canter round the grounds to basic schooling. Some instructors also exercise. Instructors are generally ex-military officers. Owners arrive climb on tacked up and waiting horse, and at the end get off and hand over to the groom, before going to club house for a drink.
Horses may get spelled at owners 'weekend property'.
To compete aff. have to be member of a 'club', except for Endurance & rodeo.

2) Horse is sole means of income and/or transport - life can vary from a small dirt corral and fed hay/green stuff, teathered on the hill/mountain behind owners 'house', teathered along road edges and collected when needed; small field of mixed grass & weed; 1/2 a mountain side fenced off. Worked regularly often all day. Horses are used to being tied up by their reins to what ever is at hand and standing quietly. Some can lead 'better' lives than category 3 or 1.

3) Pleasure - smaller yards where horses have stables/ covered yards PM and spend the day tied up under trees (no string), this is quite common and turn out is often possible if desired. Or they live on peoples weekend properties in large field and only ridden once a week max except in hols.

Feed is a good mix 90% of hay is lucerne, quality varies. Good range of grain (whole and crushed) and some pellets/mixes aimed at mares, comp horses etc.
Tack shops - often co-exisit as leather shops. Specialist english tack shops in major cities other wise 'chilean tack' etc. basic product avaiblable but far far less choice and saddle fitters & dentisits unheard of (or very very rare).
Best (had formal training) blacksmiths are the ones trained by the police or military, some of the locals by sheer years of practice/good eye are good but very hit and miss.

As far as I know/have seen conditions are similar around the Andean countries, Arg and Brazil. Quality of life of category 2 slightly reflected in GNP of that country.


Australia -
Alot like GB well along the seaboard. Haylage doesn't exisit. Less quality unaffiliated comps, less variety of competitions. Hardly anyone has lorries alot more people use trailers.
In the 'outback' horses are generally fed less and left to forage in their field which could be 100's of acres... Unfortunately lack of food is a common problem, esp in drought years.
 
La Fiaba said:
In Italy the main difference is the care regarding the weather. Here I bring my horses in when it's hot and sunny and leave them out as much as possible otherwise.

To be honest though the standard of care over here is generally very low, as they just don't know horses. For instance a woman said to me that it is cruel to keep horses out in a field.

Another place I worked at (quite a famous dressage yard in Italy) keeps their horses tied up in stalls all day every day. They *might* get some turn out if the weather is perfect, otherwise they only come out to be ridden around the school, or they might be lunged or walked for 10 minutes.

Nobody understand that horses should be tied up to string (they say it looks messy), even when their horse has had a few accidents due to this.

When they have a horse that is lame and unable to jump (which is the main sport here), they give it away as a 'light hack', usually to complete beginners and thus avoiding having to deal with the problem (consider that they probably paid upwards of 50k for this horse).

I've also met very few Italians that can actually ride, and they are usually a bit wimpy. Not all Italians, as I know a couple of good and brave riders, but in general.

Tack shops aplenty, vets are interesting and we do our own trimming as the farriers here are not taken through their paces as they are in england so why should I pay someone who knows less about horses than me? A good farrier is a rare and very expensive find over here! I'm lucky in that I have a friend who is a qualified farrier who does my shoeing.

Competition is mostly showjumping and gymkhana; but that doesn't mean little kids on ponies like I thought! It is big guys galloping their horses as fast as possible around a handy pony course.

The most ridiculous thing which I just found out a couple of days ago is that there is a new law stating you can't transport your horse in any one elses lorry or trailer (unless it's a registered transporter)! I know in the UK you can't do it for money, but here you can't do it full stop! I think that is beyond stupid to be honest.

Compound feeds are a bit of a problem yes; you can either get pony nuts or flaked maise. The really is little choice if for example you have a horse prone to laminitis but he needs feeding up, or you want energy for your school horses but you don't want them fizzed up etc. Hay is mostly awful (dusty and mouldy usually) or too rich; and there is no haylage. I'm very lucky to have found a good hay supplier (who is unfortunately 3 days late in his delivery and I'm starting to panic now!)

So theres my take on keeping horses in Italy! The upside is where I am (Chianti) I don't think there is a better place to ride out with your horse. Vineyards are also great for a good pipe-opener aswell as the horses have to stay in 'lanes' so you don't need to worry about horses galloping all over the fields. Is fun to race your friends this way too :)
Click to expand...

For someone who is trying to make a living out of convincing people to holiday in Italy-you dont paint a 'pretty' picture! Its not as bad as that...surely?
 
Fairynuff, it definitely isn't as bad as that. I think that we, as humans, tend to look at what is 'foreign' or 'different' as necessarily worse, just because we are not used to it, but we really should try to make an effort not to.
 
In Spain, the majority of horses are kept stabled 24/7. Mine live out and people ask me why they have so much space (their paddock is really small compared to what you would expect in UK). The main problem is grazing/hay. We don't have hay as such, just dried alfalfa, which is very high in protein and not suitable for ad-lib. Therefore, the norm is to feed oat straw alongside. There is a feed store near me that stock Spillers feeds and a recently opened English run rescue centre/tack shop stocks Allen & Page and Shires equipment. Spanish tack shops in my area have a very basic stock, and no "fun" colours - mostly black, green or red, navy if you're lucky. Plus some of the tack/bits they use are scary! I normally do a couple of orders a year online from the UK for stuff I can't get here, and get friends to bring it back with them.

My farrier is lovely, but he is German. Before that I had a Spanish farrier who was very unreliable and Vinnie ended up with almost hexagonal feet. However, I don't think you can generalise that because I do know some good Spanish farriers too. My farrier charges 60€ for a full set, 40€ fronts only and trimming, 25€ trim only.

As for competition, the main element is dressage. Both Vaquera and Classical. No-one hacks really in my area and only a couple of local yards do jumping. There is also a "Raid" (Endurance) group locally who ride round my area occasionally.

Vets are very good, and cheap compared to the UK (so I've been told). Mine were recently micro-chipped/passported for €70 each, to give you an idea. We have a very good horse hospital in Alicante, not far from me, and the rescue centre recently sent a mare to Barcelona for surgery after a bad case of laminitis and pedal bone rotation, and said it was very good.

There are a couple of English Dentists locally, but no Spanish ones as far as I know, and I think they would find the idea of regular dentist visits a bit unusual! I'm desperately trying to find a saddle fitter too for my awkward shaped Haflinger, but as yet, no luck, so this is not something the Spanish really do. The Vaquera saddles don't even have different width fittings I don't think? (CM might know otherwise!). As far as I know, they come in Child or Adult sizes only??

However, there are "ignorant" owners too. A lot of Spanish farmers have mini's. My neighbour recently questionned why I had the farrier in so often (every 8 weeks) saying that they only needed to be done "about twice a year" :eek: He also feeds his big barrels of artichokes and carob beans to save on hay, which I'm sure isn't that good for them!!

So as everywhere, I guess there is good and bad here. The climate helps a lot and makes exercising etc much easier in Winter. In Summer though it is too hot to ride until about 9pm.
 
Fairynuff said:
For someone who is trying to make a living out of convincing people to holiday in Italy-you dont paint a 'pretty' picture! Its not as bad as that...surely?
Click to expand...

Don't forget that I have not just stabled my horses at these places, I've been working with horses in Italy for years. They honestly don't have a clue how to look after horses! I'm sorry FrodoBeutlin but I really disagree with almost everything you say! I think we have different experiences because you are the paying customer and I'm the one behind the scenes if that makes sense. Most of the yards are 'posher' on the surface, that is true, but I would much rather have my horses at an ugly yard with less facilities, but the staff know how to look after my horse properly, there is turnout available and horses can spend at least some time everyday 'being a horse'.

I can't say EVERYTHING is bad, as I have also worked at a great riding centre that does have all year round turn out and knowledable staff, but guess what, none of the staff are Italian! I would say if you are looking for a riding holiday in Italy, please please please make sure you go to a place where the horses are well cared for.

I'm sure what I've said is true for places outside of Italy too, but I've never seen the like in england and as I say, I've been working with horses for over 10 years now in all sorts of yards from hunt yards to riding schools and the standard of knowledge and care in the UK is much higher than here.

I imagine the standard of care in Germany is higher also?

But yes Chianti is beautiful! Actually just had a great ride out today on my new mare (imported from UK cos I don't like Italian horses either, but thats another story!!) she's a real star and the weather was glorious, riding out in November in a t-shirt with my sunglasses on....no, it's not all bad in Italy after all :p
 
Well, I spent 20 years of my equestrian life in Italy and not all of it as the paying customer... I was 'behind the scenes' too.

The situation really, really is not as dramatic as the one you describe.

I am sorry but there are plenty of exceptional riders in Italy, plenty of exceptional trainers (just look at the results in the three major disciplines...from your posts it seems as if nobody can ride!), and plenty of knowledgeable Italian grooms, vets, farriers, and yard owners.

If your issue is turnout, then I agree that in Italy it is not considered as important as it is in the UK, but that hardly means that Italians are 'not knowledgeable'. It's just a different culture, different priorities.

As for the comparison between Italy and Germany, it depends -- the training I am receiving right now is definitely better in Germany, but other things are not as good (hay for instance is much much better in Italy, in Italy I had a proper horse dentist while in Germany it's a general vet because it's almost impossible to find a specialised equine dentist, etc), and the competition scene for my discipline was much better (albeit of a lower standard, for obvious reasons) in Italy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top