Keeping horses on their own

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

its totally wrong and should bemade illegal except for short periods of time eg when companion had died and owner is looking for a new companion. its cruel and unnescessary. poor horse is stressed.thy are herd animals and need to be in a herd even if thats only 2 together. horses will bond with other species so keeping a lone horse with a flock of sheep for example would be a second best alternative but keeping a horse in a paddock on its own it wholy wrong.

The fact that horses will bond with sheep just shows that they really do need equine companions imo. They are desperate for company when they seek out sheep. It's similar to expecting a person to live with only the company of an ape, they have some characteristics in common but no shared language. Horses and sheep cannot mutually groom - and I speak as someone whose former cob broodmare shared her stable with a sheep for a while. The cob was one of a herd of 4, while the sheep was the last of a small family group, the sheep sought the protection of the mare.

 

[AUB]

Denmark appears to be miles ahead of us regarding horse keeping and welfare. Didnt they ban whisker removal first too?

I think removing whiskers is actually allowed here, in theory at least. It’s FEI that has made it illegal, but that would only apply to horses competing under the FEI, I guess.
But luckily it’s not tradition to remove whiskers here. I remember reading about in a book about grooming that I bought on a holiday in London around 1995 and I had never even heard of it before.

 

[Scotsbadboy]

Obviously i agree with the people who have commented on my little confession. Im keen not to make this thread about my comment and distract from the OP's question ... there is obviously a reason those who keep their horses alone wont admit it on this forum for fear of the below comments and worse. I already feel crap about the situation, i dont need random HHO'ers to add to that BUT this is my situation, rightly or wrongly and why my next move must be done very carefully and i dont intend to rush into for both my sake and my horses sake.

I would say Dexter that your comment basically condemns every single livery yard up and down the country, and those horse owners who only offer/do individual turn out (effectively that's what I'm doing, albeit at home on my own land)

It is though. If you read that back as someone not personally involved you know its not right and you choose to do it as it suits you. Sounds harsh when its written down like that, but thas what it boils down to.

But...all the reasons for not having company are because it doesnt fit with your lifestyle (for want of a better word) regarding time, money and (lack of) desire. I can fully empathise with all of them but that doesnt help the horse.

The company issue is also solved by moving to livery but you dont want to (perfectly understandable from a human POV).

As you've written it none of the choices have been for the horses assumed benefit but to fit in with human requirements.

It's not a personal attack on you and just my take based on your black and white words and you're certainly not alone with your thoughts or choices. However everything is centred around the human circumstances.

Horses are quite a tactile breed too and again I hark back to even individually turned out horses missing out on grooming, playing, fly swatting and taking turns standing guard etc.

I really think its unethical to keep any herd animal alone regardless of how well it suits us or how inconvenient the alternatives are. If it's really impossible to provide company and allow a horse to horse then perhaps ownership needs to be reconsidered. That would be part of "my" licensing scheme too and while I'm at it I'd copy Denmark's ruling too

Denmark appears to be miles ahead of us regarding horse keeping and welfare. Didnt they ban whisker removal first too?

^^ this.

I agree about horses coping look like horses that are just fine and dandy, but the wheels can come off when they are finally given some company. i don't think the people who had my lonely horse before me had any idea the level of distress she was under, because she looked calm, ate grass all day and didn't run around neighing. But as soon as she came to my place where there were other horses, a switch flipped in her and it all came tumbling out. My heart really broke to think what she had been managing internally, looking like she was "coping".

 

[milliepops]

FWIW SBB i don't have a problem with individual turnout for some horses. my one with the scrambled brain is on individual turnout because she kicks everything she's ever been turned out with, even the horses she is pair bonded to. so the horse i have on the yard to keep her company is also on individual turnout as a result. For some it is the right thing and for others it is tolerable. but I think that's different to a horse in a field on its own without others close by. mine are in one paddock, separated by a line of electric fence (which isn't even on! as they are both so respectful of it).

that said, i know the TB would prefer to have a mate in with him. He's a playful horse who enjoys equine contact. I know sometimes you settle for the least worst rather than the ideal. but I do recognise that it's not ideal for him and try to ensure he gets play and contact in other ways (got a horse he plays with next door in the stable, for instance).

I have others on shared turnout and i KNOW it's better for them *in general* it's just this one that can't be civilised enough with company that has special treatment. i think it's easier for liveries to just put up individual paddocks because you don't have to manage introductions and there's no spats over who has done the poo picking or not.... I'd always try to have 2 at livery now so I can have a pair if I want to.

 

[ihatework]

It’s so incredibly wrong to keep a horse isolated like that. It would have to be an extreme circumstance for me to even consider it.

I understand the benefits of individual turnout and for the shod/valuable/competing ones it is a compromise I will make, but do try to build in holiday time unshod with other horses.

 

[DabDab]

Obviously i agree with the people who have commented on my little confession. Im keen not to make this thread about my comment and distract from the OP's question ... there is obviously a reason those who keep their horses alone wont admit it on this forum for fear of the below comments and worse. I already feel crap about the situation, i dont need random HHO'ers to add to that BUT this is my situation, rightly or wrongly and why my next move must be done very carefully and i dont intend to rush into for both my sake and my horses sake.

I would say Dexter that your comment basically condemns every single livery yard up and down the country, and those horse owners who only offer/do individual turn out (effectively that's what I'm doing, albeit at home on my own land)

Fwiw I don't think you need to feel crap about it, as up until recently your horse sounds like he has had some level of company around.

I just think you need some pet minis! ???

 

[Scotsbadboy]

Fwiw I don't think you need to feel crap about it, as up until recently your horse sounds like he has had some level of company around.

I just think you need some pet minis! ???

I think I do as well, lol Maybe there is my next post .. 'Find me some mini's HHO'ers'

 

[Meowy Catkin]

ETA there have been studies that horses "shut down". This can happen during (bad) training AND with being kept alone. Therefore to some people the horse is "ok" or "fine" when it really, really isnt, it has simply stopped functioning like a "happy" horse. I cant remember the source but will guess at Lucy Rees although it could be others too. I know Warwick Schiller has done a lot of work with shut down horses too.

https://www.ntu.ac.uk/about-us/news...tabled-alone-show-signs-of-stress-study-shows

'Stabling domestic horses alone can have a negative effect on their health and wellbeing, new research has revealed.

Experts at Nottingham Trent University found that horses housed individually – with no contact with other equines – showed significant signs of stress, when compared with those kept in more social surroundings.

The researchers observed horses' behaviour in four types of housing designs – housed completely alone, kept individually but with a small amount of contact from neighbouring horses, housed in pairs in a barn, and group housing in a paddock.

They found that as housing became more isolated, horses exhibited higher levels of faecal corticosterone – a key indicator of stress.'

Thermal images of the eye, another non-invasive measure of stress response, showed eye temperature to be significantly lower for group housed horses – showing lower levels of stress – when compared to all others.

Behavioural analysis, meanwhile, showed horses became increasingly difficult to handle, the more restrictive and isolated the housing became. And horses kept in groups were more likely to exhibit natural behaviours typical of free-ranging horses, with a good standard of welfare, the team found.'

ETA - https://www.cabi.org/animalscience/news/25810

 

[Jellymoon]

They look like they are managing because you can’t run around screaming forever, and it would also draw attention to predators that you are alone and vulnerable, but they aren’t managing.
Even the people who say their horses are happier alone because they don’t get on with other horses are kidding themselves. They still need company even if it’s in the field next to them for safety.
Sometimes you have to do it if one dies or something else unavoidable happens, but it’s not a fair way to keep a horse long term.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I really should get some photos, but after I read that study for the first time something clicked into place in my brain and I asked my Dad to cut windows in the walls between the wooden loose boxes. They are open, no bars, so the horses can stick their heads through and interact. I don't stable my horses much (usually only in extreme weather or waiting for the vet etc...) but my gelding gets very conflicted and can't decide if he's going to weave or box walk and my grey's heart rate goes through the roof.

So the windows were put in and the difference is amazing. I even had a new vet/dentist do their teeth earlier this year - something that would usually be an issue for my gelding - and all three horses were fab and the grey's heart rate had only elevated slightly.

Little windows... such a difference in the horses... definitely worth it.

 

[Littlebear]

It isn't something I would look to do in general but I did own a horse that did not like the company of other horses, I had that horse from a foal so it wasn't like there was any change in situation or event that occurred I wasn't aware of, she just did not want them anywhere near her and was much more settled and content alone, and I mean totally alone, nothing next door in the field etc.
Over many years she did go in herds in large fields and would find her own space and settle and didn't cause any problem but it was always a difficulty sharing an arena, others round the gate if we were going in to a field, if anyone came too close, people that didn't realise and didn't listen to me when I would say do not walk your horse past too close and that kind of thing, if I hacked with others we had to be a fair way behind, she just took great offence to other horses. Horses would generally feel the energy from her and spook away but life would have been quite happy for her as just one horse in a field with nobody bothering her.
So if I had never had that horse I could see where some people are coming from but there are exceptions.

 

[Pippity]

^^ this.

I agree about horses coping look like horses that are just fine and dandy, but the wheels can come off when they are finally given some company. i don't think the people who had my lonely horse before me had any idea the level of distress she was under, because she looked calm, ate grass all day and didn't run around neighing. But as soon as she came to my place where there were other horses, a switch flipped in her and it all came tumbling out. My heart really broke to think what she had been managing internally, looking like she was "coping".

Blue's fieldmate had lived on her own for ten years before she moved to this yard. As you say, she seemed calm at the time but as soon as she had company, it all came tumbling out. It's taken a couple of years but she'll now stay calm-ish when on her own in the field, as long as there are horses in both neighbouring fields.

There have been a few occasions where Blue's been on individual turnout (either for the sake of her waistline or as an alternative to box rest). She appeared perfectly chill and happy but, even with horses on all four sides, she became quite clingy. Normally, she'll happily ignore me while I'm in her field but when she was on individual turnout, she was in my pocket the whole time. I wouldn't have her on a yard that only offered individual turnout, and certainly never where she couldn't even touch another horse.

 

[Cortez]

Depends on the horse. Some don't mid at all.

Yep, I have one of those. Doesn't get on with many horses (his best mate was a mule, and they used to beat the crap out of each other on occasion), has tried to murder any companions, and is quite happily retired on his own.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

It isn't something I would look to do in general but I did own a horse that did not like the company of other horses, I had that horse from a foal so it wasn't like there was any change in situation or event that occurred I wasn't aware of, she just did not want them anywhere near her and was much more settled and content alone, and I mean totally alone, nothing next door in the field etc.
Over many years she did go in herds in large fields and would find her own space and settle and didn't cause any problem but it was always a difficulty sharing an arena, others round the gate if we were going in to a field, if anyone came too close, people that didn't realise and didn't listen to me when I would say do not walk your horse past too close and that kind of thing, if I hacked with others we had to be a fair way behind, she just took great offence to other horses. Horses would generally feel the energy from her and spook away but life would have been quite happy for her as just one horse in a field with nobody bothering her.
So if I had never had that horse I could see where some people are coming from but there are exceptions.

Protecting their personal space, as this horse did, is very different from having no interaction with other horses

 

[Littlebear]

Protecting their personal space, as this horse did, is very different from having no interaction with other horses

Yes it is, but as I say I had this horse from a foal and had her for many years, the times she was entirely alone was when she was most settled, nothing in sight, even hacking she was happier on her own. It is easy to dismiss this situation when you have not had a horse like this one.

 

[Silver Clouds]

Nearly all the horses I have owned have much preferred to live with other horses, but two I have owned have definitely not. The first was always bottom of any equine pecking order and would end up stressed and nervous if kept with others (and constantly covered in injuries). He would do nothing to defend himself, and would stay as far away from the others as possible. I tried several different herds and yards and nothing worked. He was, however very happy in a field next door to other horses, he seemed to feel secure behind a fence.

The second horse is one I currently own. He absolutely hates being turned out with other horses and doesn't like them getting to close at other times either. He HATES being stabled with only bars between him and his neighbour (e.g. American barn style stabling) rather than a solid wall, and gets very distressed (I was horrified when I saw this after moving him to a yard with this sort of stables). He is the nicest, most relaxed horse with humans, dogs and other animals, but seems to panic and go into fight mode with other horses. He isn't even comfortable in a field next door to others unless he can get out of sight of them (he is ok when a human is there, but not when they leave). He won't lie down to sleep if other horses are in sight, and also seems to rest less standing, and is permanently stressed, grumpy and tense. Kept on his own and out of sight of others he is clearly happier.

Interestingly he is fine competing and at fun rides etc (he seems to gain confidence in company if he has a human with him), but we do fun rides on our own as he clearly doesn't relax if we go round with a friend. Bizarrely as long as you cater to his turnout idiosyncrasies he is the calmest, least stressful horse I've known. I have owned him for 7yrs and he only had two previous owners; the breeder kept him in a herd of other mares and foals, then with youngsters, for his first 3.5yrs and apparently he played and behaved normally. With the owner before me he lived in a small herd of mixed ages and apparently kept himself to himself, and shortly before he as sold he got into a fight with another horse (but no one saw what happened, only the injuries after). I have spent years trying to find him a pleasant social living situation (I would like him to be able to live with my other horse for a start!), but have had to accept after the most recent disasterous attempt that it is not in his best interests.

I may try to keep him with (or closer to) other horses in the future if he shows sign of finding other horses less threatening/frightening/stressful, but I have had to accept that in this respect he hasn't read the manual on how horses are supposed to behave.

I do agree that for the vast majority of horses it is at best unkind and at worst cruel to keep them on their own, but there is a small minority who need their differences catered to; they shouldn't just be forced to live how they 'should' be living as a horse. Yes, some horses need to learn how to socialise but this isn't always the problem, and it is unpleasant to force a horse into a situation that clearly makes them distressed.

 

[tiahatti]

Tia lived alone for nearly a year after we lost Hatti. Tia is very nervous of other horses. A companion was trialled with her but this didnt work out. Tia was being bullied. Luckily now a nice quiet friend has been matched with her.
While she was alone she did have other horses in the neighbouring fields. I dont think I could have left her in a field without neighbouring horses.

 

[Annagain]

Monty is currently on box rest. The others come in overnight but he's on his own in the day. In the field, he's grumpy, won't let any other horses near him, quite often off grazing on his own and doesn't care if all the other horses leave the field. While he's perfectly well behaved on his own during the day(the model patient) as soon as another horse comes onto the yard, he's whickering to them and he calls when they leave him again. While he doesn't want to interact too much, he clearly still needs them around.

 

[Not_so_brave_anymore]

I've got a little mare on her own at the moment and it breaks my heart! Even though in all measurable ways she seems calmer, less anxious, happier on her own, and her weight is totally under control now she's not "competitive eating" it still doesn't feel right. For me it's a (very protracted) temporary situation while I figure out wtf I'm going to do with her long term, but I never would have chosen this ?

 

[Translationsneeded1]

One of mine will beat up any horse in the field with her. She’s kept next to my others who are in together and mooch along just fine. My mare was completely on her own for about a month and whilst she seemed fine in herself, I don’t think she ever laid down to sleep. I wouldn’t keep one solely on their own.

 

[PurBee]

It seems that if a horse has spent a lot of time alone, most of its life, it doesnt have social skills learnt to cope with being in herds, and so we see issues, as stated on this thread.
If you get a horse with a lonely history and has issues, all we can do is manage it as best we can, and sometimes that is keeping them apart.

If a foal has been alone since weaning, then it definitely hasnt learnt social herd dynamics and would find it stressful suddenly being around horses, and i can imagine how hard it is to deal with this type of horse.

Both the above type of horses exist, as this thread has shown, and the cause is not that being in a herd caused the problems, but that being alone for long periods of time is the cause, creating behavioural issues therefore when introduced to more horses.

So the right thing to do from foal is allow other horses to interract together as they naturally are herd creatures, in the wild.

We have a clash really - in domestication human wants contradict horses natural wants - so if you want just 1 horse, the best thing would be livery that horse to be around others. If at home, the horse needs another, but pair bonding will happen, so 3 is better than 2 - if you want to be able to take 1 out to ride.

I have a pair bonded couple, originally wanted just 1 horse at home (what was i thinking back then with that idea?!) and so without a third horse im not able to take 1 away from the other without damaged fences, screams and rioting. So i’ve given up my ‘wants’ for their ‘needs’ and no longer have aspirations i once had regarding horse ownership, that would have required seperating them. Many would say whats the point in horse ownership without being able to ride them separately, and i would have said the same years ago, but now im doing it, there’s enjoyment caring for them without them needing to be anything other than just horses. We do interactions/play/exercise from the ground as a group instead, it’s the compromise that suits us ALL. It’s not everyone stance, i get that - i’d definitely do livery if i could only have 1 horse.

 

[Kat]

I think keeping a horse entirely alone is unacceptable. They are herd animals and need another of their own species around so that they can relax and sleep properly. Keeping a horse alone should be very much the exception to the rule.

However I don't think individual turnout is the same at all. For most group turnout would be better, but it may be impractical or unsafe. Individual turnout where the horse has same species company over the fence is often necessary and is an acceptable compromise.

For anyone struggling with issues relating to companions the blue cross often have companion ponies for loan so you don't get faced with a companion pony as a permanent liability.

 

[Annagain]

I don't quite understand your situation OP, is your horse too injured to be ridden or the companion? If it's your horse, and you want to reduce costs could you send the companion back (it sounds like that's an option or you wouldn't be asking about keeping yours alone) and find a home where yours could be a companion? I know you say he's grumpy but he might suit some horses who like some sort of companion around but for them not to be too in your face.

 

[stormox]

My 16.2 riding mare had a 14.2 companion, but during lockdown when travel wasnt allowed the riding mare got a bit naughty and I took her to a livery yard so I could do more. That left the companion pony on her own.
It all depends on the covid situation when the other mare can come home, until then the pony will have to stay on her own.
But when she was with the other mare she used to break the fence and escape onto the neighbours lawn, usually leaving the big mare standing behind a 1ft high fence so I dont think she's that bothered about having a companion.

 

[HollyWoozle]

I definitely wouldn't keep a horse totally alone, ie. without sight of other horses or herd animals at least. Individual turnout can be acceptable to me in certain cases but personally I do everything I can to avoid it. We currently have our EMS pony in a separate paddock as he cannot cope with the grass of the main field, so he is separated from the others by a fence, and he hates it. We are in the process of seeking a loan pony with the same sort of needs so that he will have direct company and in the meantime we are sometimes bringing our other pony in to be with him for short stretches. The fence between him and the others is not electric and he can at least interact with them but it is not sufficient in his case nor, I believe, is it sufficient for most for optimum wellbeing.

 

[Bellaboo18]

They look like they are managing because you can’t run around screaming forever, and it would also draw attention to predators that you are alone and vulnerable, but they aren’t managing.
Even the people who say their horses are happier alone because they don’t get on with other horses are kidding themselves. They still need company even if it’s in the field next to them for safety.
Sometimes you have to do it if one dies or something else unavoidable happens, but it’s not a fair way to keep a horse long term.

Completely agree

 

[scats]

I wouldn’t keep a horse alone, even if they seemed to be coping with it. I genuinely believe that those horses seemingly coping on their own without company (no horses even nearby) simply go into a quiet form of acceptance because it does no good to scream and shout forever unless you want to attract a potential predator. But they will never truly settle or relax and I wouldn’t like to think about the health implications as a result.
I don’t even like individual turnout, but I do recognise that there are rare cases that a horse might need to be kept away from others. I’ve known a few horses who will bully and batter anything they are paired up with, but stick them in a small established herd and that usually sorts them out.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Yep, I have one of those. Doesn't get on with many horses (his best mate was a mule, and they used to beat the crap out of each other on occasion), has tried to murder any companions, and is quite happily retired on his own.

I also have one of those. Very much his own man, likes friends the other side of the fence but put one in with him and he is very unhappy. Almost a territorial behaviour. Stallion in younger years so that may explain it.