Keeping/putting on weight over winter

[Horseriderlady]

Hi all,
Hoping for some advice please.

My 6yo 16.3” Cob came to me last winter underweight.
He was on hay, no hard feed.

I’ve been slowly building up his strength-top line, muscle, and increasing his calories this year.
He’s at a good point going into winter.
He could still do with steadily gaining weight and I definitely don’t want him to loose any over winter if I can help it.

He gets 2 feeds a day & turnout between 8-4pm on not much grass.
I want to up his calories without adding more bulk to his meals but won’t cause much change to his temperament.

Currently he’s on
AM - 3 scoops spillers conditioning fibre
1 scoop TopChop Alfalfa
1 scoop Top Spec Top Chop light
1 scoop gut balancer

PM - 4 scoops spillers conditioning fibre
1 scoop TopChop Alfalfa
2 scoops Top Spec Top Chop light
1 scoop gut balancer

He also eats 3/4 slices hay per night.
The Top Spec Top Chop light is to bulk his feeds out and make them last longer than 2 minutes or he kicks the door in without it in the mix.

Also, is there something better calorie wise (without heating) than the spillers conditioning fibre that I could switch to?
Or change any of the other feeds?

Thank you

 

[meleeka]

I like Speedibeet for condition. You could swap the Top Chop lite for it and add some micronised linseed if you feel he still needs more. 3-4 slices isn't that much for a big horse, between 4pm and 8am. Are his teeth ok?

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I would suggest that he needs considerably more than 3 or 4 slices of hay, that really isn't enough for a horse of that size for that many hours, no matter what short feed you are giving him. Particularly if he does not have access to good grass during the day either.

Any of my cobs of that sort of size would have access to almost ad lib hay in small hole haynets through the night or day if they were ever kept in for that many hours. I do appreciate it can be difficult to keep these big boned types up to weight without unlimited grazing and I also found micronised linseed helpful for weight gain without fizz.

 

[Fieldlife]

Start with as much hay as he can eat. Always available and some left in morning. Cheapest way to build weight.

If that isn’t enough 1-2 mugs of micronised linseed / 1-2 mugs of linseed oil will help gain condition.

 

[Bellaboo18]

Adlib hay.
7 scoops in one feed is a big feed, smaller feeds are better for weight gain, I'd ideally scrap the top chop lite and add some micronised linseed.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Another vote for ad-lib hay and I wouldn't be messing about with haynets, either.
I don't understand the logic behind giving massive bucket feeds and hardly any hay. Horses stomachs can't digest huge meals so a lot of what you are feeding won't be doing anything for him anyway.

 

[SantaVera]

Ad lib hay

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I wouldn't be messing about with haynets, either.

I put that Pearlsasinger advice based on my own greedy maxi cobs, if not in small haynets, like a Labrador they would just stuff their greedy faces for a couple of hours and then stand all night with nothing going through their system. I do appreciate though that is only based on my experience of big cobs so quite understand others might not recommend the small holed nets use in this situation.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I put that Pearlsasinger advice based on my own greedy maxi cobs, if not in small haynets, like a Labrador they would just stuff their greedy faces for a couple of hours and then stand all night with nothing going through their system. I do appreciate though that is only based on my experience of big cobs so quite understand others might not recommend the small holed nets use in this situation.

I have had plenty of cobs and Draft horses. Ime if they genuinely have ad-lib forage they self-regulate. I bought an obese Westphalian Kaltblut (Draft) mare. She had a measured ration of hay/lage and trugs full of plain oat straw chaff. It took a couple of years to get her back to an acceptable weight, then, because she had been used to being full she had learned to self-regulate, so no longer needed the chaff. She would usually have a small amount of hay left and an untouched small bucket of chaff.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I have had plenty of cobs and Draft horses

Pearlsasinger I did not suggest you do not have experience based on your advice, or say that you were wrong in anyway, merely that I have had a different experience with my big cobs.

 

[twiggy2]

Why such big bucket feeds? Especially as they are full of little calories.
Ad lib good quality hay and a balancer or supplement in some soaked grass nuts with micronised linseed.
My 14.2hh 3yr old highland filly is turned out for at least 16hrs a day on plentiful poor grass and she gets that amount of hay. My last mare at 15.1hh used to get over a bale of hay a night when she was out on grass for 8 hrs a day and she was not fat, 3 to 4 slices is noqhere near enough.
Does he have hay left in the mornings?

 

[ecb89]

By scoop do you mean the big round scoops? If so that is a crazy amount of food in each meal.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Scoops = what size = what weight of feed in each?
The current amounts and type of feeds, are they all as reccomended by dietician or specialist?

I'd be giving ad lib hay (half loose and half in a net, prob at least 6 small bale slices if not more).
Need to know why and reason for current feeding regime (which are very puzzling) before suggesting more suitable feed types.

 

[HBB]

I would like to know what size of scoop you are using and the weight of hay he is getting at night too.
I've had a quick look at the Spillers website and you are probably about right for the amount of Conditioning fibre you are feeding per day if it is a stubbs scoop.
I would drop the other chaffs you are using and replace it with micronised linseed and up his hay to ad-lib. Why is he getting a gut supplement and when was his teeth last done?

 

[TheOldTrout]

I add linseed oil to my elderly mare's feed to help keep weight on.

 

[dorsetladette]

Hi all,
Hoping for some advice please.

My 6yo 16.3” Cob came to me last winter underweight.
He was on hay, no hard feed.

I’ve been slowly building up his strength-top line, muscle, and increasing his calories this year.
He’s at a good point going into winter.
He could still do with steadily gaining weight and I definitely don’t want him to loose any over winter if I can help it.

He gets 2 feeds a day & turnout between 8-4pm on not much grass.
I want to up his calories without adding more bulk to his meals but won’t cause much change to his temperament.

Currently he’s on
AM - 3 scoops spillers conditioning fibre
1 scoop TopChop Alfalfa
1 scoop Top Spec Top Chop light
1 scoop gut balancer

PM - 4 scoops spillers conditioning fibre
1 scoop TopChop Alfalfa
2 scoops Top Spec Top Chop light
1 scoop gut balancer

He also eats 3/4 slices hay per night.
The Top Spec Top Chop light is to bulk his feeds out and make them last longer than 2 minutes or he kicks the door in without it in the mix.

Also, is there something better calorie wise (without heating) than the spillers conditioning fibre that I could switch to?
Or change any of the other feeds?

Thank you

Hi OP - welcome to the forum.

You must be spending a fortune on all that feed?

Personally I'd drop the chops and up his hay ration. does he have any hay in the field? 8 hours out on poor grazing won't be helping your cause here. Keep him well rugged so he isn't wasting calories on keeping warm.

I've always had good results with linseed lozenges when needing to add calories to a feed. A 20kg bag is only about £25 and you only add about 70g of lozenges to a feed so a bag lasts for ages.

Can you speak to a spillers or top spec nutritionist and see what they recommend - they might be able to suggest swapping items out for more calorie rich options which don't need to be feed in bulk.

 

[paddi22]

I'd be wondering why it was taking him so long to put condition on. we get rescue cobs in who are skeletons, but after a year they should be well back in condition, and usually we are struggling with keeping weight off them by that stage. I would imagine the feeding regime isn't suiting him or he has a dental or gut issue. sometimes those gut supplements put too much of some bacteria in and the gut biome still stays unbalanced.

He is on limited grass and then getting big buckets of feed that aren't calorie dense and are too much for a single feed. id imagine most of it is just going right through him and not getting absorbed by the gut at the time.

If you were to redo it you would get more benefit from adlib hay, and adding an oil to his feed, and making sure the amount fed allows his stomach to actually absorb whats in the feed.

 

[Milliechaz]

My ex racer came to me on the same as yours (hard feed wise). He looked good but still on the lean side. I've swapped to saracen releive cubes, allen and page care and gain, micronised linseed and one cup vitamin supplement and he looks absolutely great. A lot cheaper than top spec too

 

[Birker2020]

Lari is going on Allen & Page Care & Gain this week.

 

[Smogul]

Pearlsasinger I did not suggest you do not have experience based on your advice, or say that you were wrong in anyway, merely that I have had a different experience with my big cobs.

Totally agree. OH's big cob would eat and eat and eat and eat................

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Ad lib hay

This and reduce the volume of bucket feed as mentioned they can't digest huge meals in one go or you split them up through the day.

I would add micronised linseed or Equijewel or omega rice you don't have to feed loads of it.

All that feed must be costing a fortune.

I've got Arab's so smaller than yours and in winter they will eat double that amount of hay and more.

 

[TPO]

Adlib good quality hay

What size are your scoops??

Bucket feeds are fairly low calorie.

Has he had teeth done, worm count (incl tape) and have you spoken to vet? Might be worth running bloods.

My personal way of feeding to gain weight is:

A good vit/min supplement or balancer. I prefer Progressive Earth and use their pro balance + and salt

A damp base eg speedibeet, pink mash, grass nuts or alfabeet. Check the calories to see what suits your needs. Pink mash is my favourite or anything needing extra and grassnuts are my standard.

Micronised Linseed. It's high protein and high calorie. If feeding over 300gm per day it needs balanced with calcium (limestone flour).

For horses needing calories I feed Saracen Re Leve mix or Baileys Ease & Excel mix

I had one horse that needed even more so I feed Baileys outshine. Equijewel and omega rice are similar feeds

I stick in a handful of chaff (dengie meadow grass usually or alfa a oil if needing calories) just to mix.

Also worth adding a scoop of natural vitamin e (progressive earth) to compensate for goodness gone from grass

Weigh your feeds and keep a diary. Start weight taping your horse around base of next, stomach at girth and biggest part of stomach. Tapes aren't accurate but they'll shoe change. Take regular photos too.

I'd give 1/2 - 1 stubb scoop of chaff before exercise

You're feeding very big buckets full of "duplicate" type feed for no apparent reason. A horse doesn't need 3 different types of chaff.

If your new way of feeding doesn't yield any results time to chat to vet for an MOT.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

OP, you've been on line since this was posted, including last night, are you going to pop back to fill us in?

 

[Horseriderlady]

Hi all, sorry for the delay!
Really appreciate all the advice on here. A lot to read though & will take notes.
Thank you for taking the time to reply.

I should have clarified in my OP-the spillers fibre is in a stubs scoop - 500g.
Feeding guidelines say 4kg split into min of 2 feeds.
Which would be 8 scoops spilt into a min of 2 feeds.

I feed 7 scoops as his weight seems steady for now =
3AM (1.5kg) & 4PM (2kg)
That’s all I was feeding him-with the gut balancer.

YO said he was kicking the door too much as soon as he finished his feeds and I had to extend his feeding time…
Even though he has hay available.
He gets agitated seeing other horses come and go past him when he’s in and the bowl is empty too quickly.
So I added chop light in 250g scoops-not the stubs ones.
He then stopped eating the chop light mixed in so someone suggested adding a small amount (a decent handful but not a 250g scoops worth) of Alfalfa sprinkled over it has mint & linseed oil.
He happily eats his feeds again.

And I completely agree, he does eat a huge qty with the chop added which is not adding anything other than bulk and an extra expense.
Thank you for the alternative suggestions.
I’m going to redo his feeds and start from scratch.

Re hay-it’s the large farmer bales-not the small 20kg bales.
Again, apologies for not clarifying.
After looking at the responses I was curious so weighed his hay in sections and it’s around 14-15kg-with hay left over after.
Qty changes depending on the length of time he’s stabled from (rarely 4pm-that’s just off the field time), the quality of grazing available, temperature overnight etc.
He’s good at self regulating & it’s loose on the floor for him to munch.

After posting this and reading the comments, I have spoken to yo and told her his feed will be changing.
If he becomes impatient again he will get TO first.

Update. He weighed 620kg when he came to me in December as a scrawny 5yo. He’s now had his winter weigh-in and is 705kg. His body score is spot on-he looks defined & strong.
Just incase that changes any feeding advice for weight management and nutrition over the winter.

Vet very happy with his progress, teeth & worm count all good.
Vet suggested gut balancer because he was stressed when he moved here from Ireland & he’s been on it ever since.
Would you suggest taking him off it?
It was my understanding that it helps prevent ulcers & digestive issues if the feed doesn’t already contain it.

Apologies again for not giving enough specifics in my first post & thank you for replying.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Hi all, sorry for the delay!
Really appreciate all the advice on here. A lot to read though & will take notes.
Thank you for taking the time to reply.

I should have clarified in my OP-the spillers fibre is in a stubs scoop - 500g.
Feeding guidelines say 4kg split into min of 2 feeds.
Which would be 8 scoops spilt into a min of 2 feeds.

I feed 7 scoops as his weight seems steady for now =
3AM (1.5kg) & 4PM (2kg)
That’s all I was feeding him-with the gut balancer.

YO said he was kicking the door too much as soon as he finished his feeds and I had to extend his feeding time…
Even though he has hay available.
He gets agitated seeing other horses come and go past him when he’s in and the bowl is empty too quickly.
So I added chop light in 250g scoops-not the stubs ones.
He then stopped eating the chop light mixed in so someone suggested adding a small amount (a decent handful but not a 250g scoops worth) of Alfalfa sprinkled over it has mint & linseed oil.
He happily eats his feeds again.

And I completely agree, he does eat a huge qty with the chop added which is not adding anything other than bulk and an extra expense.
Thank you for the alternative suggestions.
I’m going to redo his feeds and start from scratch.

Re hay-it’s the large farmer bales-not the small 20kg bales.
Again, apologies for not clarifying.
After looking at the responses I was curious so weighed his hay in sections and it’s around 14-15kg-with hay left over after.
Qty changes depending on the length of time he’s stabled from (rarely 4pm-that’s just off the field time), the quality of grazing available, temperature overnight etc.
He’s good at self regulating & it’s loose on the floor for him to munch.

After posting this and reading the comments, I have spoken to yo and told her his feed will be changing.
If he becomes impatient again he will get TO first.

Update. He weighed 620kg when he came to me in December as a scrawny 5yo. He’s now had his winter weigh-in and is 705kg. His body score is spot on-he looks defined & strong.
Just incase that changes any feeding advice for weight management and nutrition over the winter.

Vet very happy with his progress, teeth & worm count all good.
Vet suggested gut balancer because he was stressed when he moved here from Ireland & he’s been on it ever since.
Would you suggest taking him off it?
It was my understanding that it helps prevent ulcers & digestive issues if the feed doesn’t already contain it.

Apologies again for not giving enough specifics in my first post & thank you for replying.

Just for your own benefit really, you could swap what j guess is an expensive gut balancer for Aloe Vera juice, which will do the same job. You will then only be feeding one ingredient, which is important to me, as I can more easily monitor reactions to feed. I have fed gut balancers in the past, with multiple ingredients, that caused other problems.

 

[Goldenstar]

Ad-lib hay is a must .
You need to weigh his hay and work out how much he’s eating .

 

[lynz88]

I've just been down a rabbit hole on this and decided to add molasses free beetpulp and upping his hay. EquiJewel works amazingly well - I have used in the past but it isn't cheap. Micronized linseed also works very well and is cheaper. I was recently debating on taking him off the linseed and feeding omega rice instead which is both linseed and rice bran but am going the above route first. Coolstance copra is also supposed to be good but haven't tried it. If you wanted to add oil, maize oil was recommended by my vet but warned not to go over 15% in oil in the diet.

A very weird one but has worked for me in the past as well: have you tried adding high levels of vit e?

 

[Nudibranch]

Ad lib hay.
Some of the feed you are giving is low calorie.
Two winters ago my mare contracted a nasty virus and lost a huge amount of weight at the start of winter. I got it back on with ad lib hay mostly. She also had a couple of (small) feeds - oats, copra or linseed and plain old pony nuts. Plus salt and balancer.
Linseed and copra are both very good for weight gain. Linseed is the better option environmentally but you can feed copra in larger amounts.