Kicking out!! help!!

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Siam Jack

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Hi All,
Please please any advice will be greatly appreciated here...

My 7yr old heavy fell/ cob cross gelding Jack, has started to kick out when his back end is touched!! He is a typical cob type, naughty at times but a real sweetie usually! about 3 wks ago I put a waterproof light rug on him to go out, but being a total novice I asked another girl to check I had put it on right, she came into his stable and checked it over and simply ran her hand over his rump and he lashed out!! ears back and NOT happy at all! we put it down to the new rug(never had one on before) and the fact she was in HIS house, tonight though my hubby took him out riding and came back thinking his left hind leg was a bit lame, a bloke on the yard who works with horses as a living took a look and touched his back end and got a heavyweight foot in his knee!!! last week he kicked out at the farrier who quickly put him in his place...

I was so upset to think this big,normally, gentle boy really hurt someone and other people (and me) are now very nervous around him...

We have talked and talked tonight about all possibilities but cannot think what has gone wrong?? any suggestions? I really think he has bad manners anyway, very bargy on the ground and difficult to lead, ( a dream to ride though) and would like him to have some re schooling back to basics but this kicking is just not on! how can you stop them doing this? we only bought him in July after loaning him since January and I had him vetted with no problems.
 
Is it the same sort of place people touch that annoys him? If so, maybe a back person or the vet should have a look. If he is just being naughty, get an old broom handle, fill a marigold glove up with hay or bedding and tie to the end. Then touch him with it, until he gets used to it and stops kicking out.
Some horses kick for a reason, if its pain, you need to sort it. If he has just started doing it, could he have had a fall, or been cast in the stable?
Some horses just kick because they want to, no reason just grumpy.
Hope you sort him.
 
Kelly Marks explains that cob-types are far more likely to kick out in response to fear than TB types. The "flight" response is much less dramatic in cob types so they will kick where a TB type would try to run away. I think your cob is either hurting or was frightened by the rug and kicked out in self defence. If he was punished for being frightened, he will be frightened even more. It won't be anything to do with being in "his" stable, horses don't think like that. I'd very carefully check his rear end for painful places. He could have a cut or a kick or twisted a muscle or anything really. After that, you really do need to work on building mutual trust and respect with your new-ish boy. Even before you start doing some basic groundwork with him, sit down and write out a set of rules that you want him to keep and a set of rules for YOU to keep! Once you've decided what is and what isn't allowed you have to stick to it 100% or your horse won't understand where the boundaries are. For instance you could have on YOUR list: never shouting at him, never hitting him in temper, never feeding titbits, always seeing to his needs before your own etc etc. On HIS side you could list: never barging, never leading badly, always respecting your personal space, stepping back politely from the stable door when you enter etc etc. Again, once you've decided what the rules are for yourself and for him, you MUST STICK TO THEM!!!! It sounds like he's a super little pony and he will have passed a vetting easy peasy because what you're experiencing with him now isn't a physical problem but a behavioural one. Basic groundwork and easy steps so he can understand. Only do groundwork in bite sized chunks so it's not too much for him to take in all in one go and always end on a high. Stick to praise for reward so he doesn't get silly about mugging people for treats. If he isn't getting something, remember YOUR half of the rules, keep your patience and temper and quietly go back a few steps until he's happy again.

Sort his back end pain out, draw up The Rules, get some basic groundwork going, carry on loving him lots and you'll get there xxx
 
Siam Jack said:
Hi All,
I was so upset to think this big,normally, gentle boy really hurt someone and other people (and me) are now very nervous around him...

We have talked and talked tonight about all possibilities but cannot think what has gone wrong?? any suggestions? I really think he has bad manners anyway, very bargy on the ground and difficult to lead, ( a dream to ride though) and would like him to have some re schooling back to basics but this kicking is just not on! how can you stop them doing this? we only bought him in July after loaning him since January and I had him vetted with no problems.
Click to expand...

If the kicking has just started -and you've known this horse since January - then it's highly likely it is either a pain response - or a response to something that has frightened him badly, though that seems less likely.

Are there any other symptoms to help you narrow it down? eg - if he's still well-behaved to ride it's unlikely to be back pain. Is he generally grumpy in the stable or at feed time - and - if so - is this new behaviour?? (if 'yes' to both questions, I'd suspect ulcers .) Have you cleaned his sheath lately - or noticed him not letting down for a wee? (Maggots in the sheath will make a gelding VERY tetchy around the rear!)

When he kicks,does he appear to be reactingtoa fright-or rough handling,or is it just random and apparently malicious kicks? Is itpossible that someone has abused himor frightened him in your absence? Is there any evidence of rats in his stable? (That will make some horses tetchy and defensive.)

You really need to thinkhard about ALL his behaviour and if it co-incided with any change in management or feed BEFORE you start punishing him for this unacceptable behaviour. There WILL be a reason for it - finding it is essential to the cure!
 
Thank you so much everyone for your replies,
Janet George... I cleaned his sheath on Saturday!! and he always has a pee in his stable when brought in but does not let it down for a wee (although I have never noticed him letting it down at any time for wee?)..... I will check it tonight
I have seen a few rats around the farm as well, so they are definatley there when we are not... I've had his back checked out just a few weeks ago and his feed at the moment is just hayledge as he is on the large side and gets fatter on fresh air..
The field they are in is just about bare now and the geldings are all hungry when they come in, other geldings are fighting in the field and Jack has come in with a few bites and scrapes, they are not going into their winter field for another 2 weeks,we have watched them together and Jack keeps well away from the big boys but obviously we are not there all day, he is stabled at night.
Box of frogs, minimax... thanks so much for replies,, like I said I have had his back checked, and he is good for riding and I also feel much more confident when riding as he behaves really well under saddle, I really do need to get the basic respect back and have already talked about just me taking him in the school to teach him to respect me... my hubby has control on the ground (just) but I think through sheer strength as he is 19 stone!! also Jack was bought as a foal by his previous owner and behaved very well for him, I truly believe he responds better to a man!!!
Thanks agin I will keep you updated
 
Been up today and kept him in because of the geldings scrapping, took him in the school with a "monty roberts" headcollar and to start with he was just pulling me to the fence where the grass was, but by the end of 15mins I had him walking and stopping with me! will have to keep it up though.... as for the kicking someone on the yard has suggested "mud fever" but I'm not 100% sure? he has had mites before as he has full feathers but I also use "pig oil and sulpher" keeping him in tonight and if no better by tomorrow will call the vet!
 
I was just about to advise you to go back to groundwork basics with a dually headcollar but it seems that you have beaten me to it.

A lot of these behavioiural issues can be ironed out with a bit of firm but kind handling.

Personally, I wouldn't rush to get a vet or similar out and spend your hard earned cash. Get the groundwork going really well - put your big boy firmly in his place and hopefully the kicking will be a think of the past - however may I suggest you always pop a hat on when handling him for the timebeing!

FI
 
I have taken advice from a lady at the yard and she suggested keeping him in for a few days to see if he improves before calling the vet out, as she said the vet will probably suggest box rest for a week and then come back to check him over, and then charge 2 callouts?? (I really am starting to learn!)

One thing that my husband has just brought up, I put "pig oil and sulphur" on Jacks legs for the first time on saturday, could this be a cause of the kicking out, he has never had the pig oil before???
Steve is saying that if he had a mild mud fever problem then I've put this oil on him it could be irritating things more?
 
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