Kissing Spine and Breeding

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Toby773

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Would you breed from a mare with kissing spine?

Suppose it depends on whether the ks developed during the mare's life (eg trauma) or whether it is congenital?

Thoughts please.
 
I've been told by Newmarket vets that it doesn't preclude breeding as they don't really know what causes it.

I would like to eventually breed from my mare who had the KS op this year, and I asked that specific question. There doesn't seem to be a known genetic link to which horse develop it and which don't, so to take all horses that develop it out of the breeding pool wouldn't make any sense?

I'm goign to be very interested in all the replies to this though, as it's a question very dear to my heart....
 
no i wouldnt. KS is a very bad back in basic terms! when in foal the back has to take a lot of strain (pain in KS horses) whether it is a congenitial problem or a trauma/management problem the problem is still there. there are loads of horses with perfect conformation/pedigree/potential why would you want to breed from one with known problems which limited it reaching its potential? it costs a few thousand to get a foal to 4 years. best just buy one you like right color right sex right conformation right breeding right temperament? too many unwanted indiscrimate types around.
 
Kissing spines, as I understand it, is not something that the work the horse does causes. It is just that the horse was born with spinal processes too close together. Work may show that the horse has got it, but does it "cause" the proximity.

Personally I would not breed from a mare with it, because it seems to me that if she has it, then her offspring are more likely to be born with spines too close together as well. Why would they not be? If they take their mother/father's height, colour programming, temperament etc why would they not pick up the proximity of the spinal processes???
 
I would NEVER breed from a horse with KS, or any deformation. It is the wrong attitude to have, everyone told me to breed from my mare when i found out (instead of operating) I think its nonsense! She did have the op and is fab now but would never consider breeding from her.
 
Ok-one year a vet did a investigation into this and 80% of the 4 and 5 year old horses at one of Hollands top sport horse auctions were shown to have kissing spine on their Xrays. None of them showed the symptoms- this is just what showed up on the Xrays.
How and where a horse goes from having a back with non-troublesome kissing spine, to troublesome kissing spine, I dont know, but it happens. I think it happens when other injuries ( say hock spavin, suspensory problems) or a virus,or trauma, triggers things, and then problems start happening. You'd have to ask a vet on the exact reasoning.
But the fact of the matter is, that if you xrayed all the horses in the world, a vast proportion of them would show impinging vertebrate in their backs.

Regarding wether to breed from a mare with KS.Well, obviously everyone is doing it all over the world, so the KS is not necessarily a factor. What matters, is how sound/tough the mare is, and how good she is at the job she was bred for.
 
I have only known one mare who had bad KS who was then used for breeding. She had 3 foals and everyone of them also had troublesome KS.

One was bad enough to be PTS at 4 and the others are pasture pets.

Coincidence maybe? Personally I wouldn't take the chance.
 
How many of the horses at a top Dutch horse auction are inbred? Most of them, probably, with recent breeding programs. Those horses need re-evaluating at ten and fifteen to see how many of them did NOT end up with back issues. And the current ten and fifteen and twenty year olds need investigating to see if 80% of them have close spines, before you could conclude from one current batch of narrowly bred 4 and 5 year olds that there is no problem.
 
no i wouldn't breed from a horse with kissing spines.

To much of a risk of breeding a foal with substandard (for want of a better word) spines and a increased potential for the disease.Its a fairly newly discovered disease to so there really hasnt been enough research into the genetic inheritance of the disease.

If nothing else will pregnancy not put more strain on the mare's back?....just a thought im not sure which vertebrae are affected and how much effect the extra weight would have...but i cant imagine it would be comfortable to be pregnant with a bad back
 
I personally have bred from a mare with KS. We were considering it before she got the diagnosis, and when it was confirmed we decided to give it a go as other factors were in her favour - she has the perfect temperament and good conformation. We believe her KS became a problem when she got cast in her stable as she had previously been fine - she had it manipulated once and we got an extra years work out of her, then when it recurred we decided to retire her.
We specifically asked the vet if her KS would cause her problems in the pregnancy, and they assured us that due to the location of the problem, near the tail end of her spine, she was in discomfort when pressure was put on the top of her back - such as riding - and the pregnancy would not cause that pressure. The never suggested not breeding from her because of her problems, and we thought alot about the decision to put her in foal.
Our boy is 7 months now and growing strong, showing no immediate signs of KS. I intend to keep him to bring on myself and will do everything in my power to prevent him having a problem with his back in the future. If he turns out to have it later in life I will deal with it, but as long as he works up to his ability, is loved and looked after, I'm very happy with the decision we made. I know it will be contraversial, but he was born on my 21st, and francly I couldn't have wished for a better foal - he is healthy, weaned well, has a friend to play with, and whats more we have a great relationship.
I agree with others that you need to consider other factors such as temperament and breeding, but providing they are in their favour, and the vets are sure it won't cause any issues wth the pregnancy, I don't see why you shouldn't breed - if you want to and are prepared to make the commitment.
 
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