Kissing spine and other problems, please help!

[emjhastings]

Hi I would really apreciate some advice on my problem, I will try to make it as short as possible so here goes -

I have been having problems with my horse for about 2 years now, starting when I moved to Wales (big hills) and the saddle started rubbing. Obviously I called a saddler and we got a new saddle, although it started again. It was definatly not the new saddle as I had regular checks. I then called a Chriopractor to see my horse as she kept going wrong behind. For 18 months we had the chriopractor making regular calls and we would get correct for a while and then she would go lame again. In the end he was coming out every three weeks. I then decided I had no option but to try the vet route ( I was scared of this as it was the last straw).

So six months later and she has been to a vet hospital four times now. These include Arthritis in the hocks, pain in the sacral iliac and finally kissing spine! She has now had her operation for kissing spine and we are just coming out of the rehabilitation period and I can ride next week. The good news is there is definatly an improvement in her action, she is a lot more flowing and bouncy in trot. The bad new is I have just noticed that she has started to drag her hind feet, thinking maybe this was lazyness from all the lunging I am having to do I trotted her up on the hard ground this evening to find she is even draggind them on the ground, not something she was doing before.

As you can imagine I am at my wits end, after 6 months of hard work it looks like it is not over. I really don't want to give up on her but the insurance has nearly ran out and I can't cope with the dissapointment of not having my baby rideable. Any advice would be really apreciated. Sorry it is such a long one.

Thanks

 

[Cliqmo]

Ooh sounds like you've had a real time of it! I'm not really sure what to recommend

How old is your mare? How long had you owned her before the problems started?

 

[digitalangel]

Hello and welcome to the forum

Sorry to hear about your mare it sounds like a real nightmare! Ive been going through similar recently myself.

Im confused firstly because a chiropractor is now allowed to work on a horse unless he/she has the vets permission - did you mention these issues to your vet at all before the chiro started work?

Also if she is dragging her feet now,it may still be the sacroiliac issue - the sacro area can take a long time to heal. Have you had any treatment yet? sorry for asking but it was a bit unclear in the post

Also it goes without saying that artritis is degenerative and it may be getting worse :^(

Finally, sometimes it can take time to build up the legs again after a long time off work - my boy has been on box rest since january, and hes only now starting to come back into work and the vet told me he would need to strengthen his legs again.

I think at this point the only thing you can do is get the advice of the vet - you never know this may just be part of the healing process? But he will give you a better idea of the cause then you can look into other treatments

Im really sorry i cant say much more - as im nt sure what to suggest really - without knowing what the cause of the toe-dragging is, but i hope your mare does get better soon.

 

[emjhastings]

Thanks guys, sorry I didn't put more info it I could actually write a book. Cora is 13 years old and she is an Irish tb. She hadn't done anything before I had her just been broken and put back out into the field. I had her in Ireland for 2 years before I brought her to Wales with me and we didn't have any problems in Ireland.

The Sacroiliac and the hocks have both been treated with steriods and before her operation she was trotting up fine, thinking about it even when she was at her worst she was not dragging her hind feet.

I did call the vet yesterday and he seemed to think it was either the hocks or Sacroiliac again, and advised me to keep lunging her for another 2 weeks.

Just to clarify the Chiropractor did call my local vet first to check it was ok to work on her, at that time things were not to bad she got a lot worse as time went on. I cant help thinking this is my fault for not riding her correctly as we are just happy hackers and I have trouble getting her on the bit.

Thanks for you help so far, much apreciated.

 

[cob1]

After an operation and lots of box rest, my 13 year old IRISH TB had the same problem - he had an old sacrioliac injury. He was already retired due to untreatable KS and N, and had previously been a happy hack etc.

The vet said any muscle that was stabilising his sacrioliac had wasted due to retirement and the box rest after his knee op. I did have him PTS not long after due to the whole catalogue of his injuries:
KS
Navicular
Kick to the knee which after op never healed right - he was constantly 3-4/5 lame and had basically given up on life

He also had the start of arthritis in the hocks and dragged his back feet, squaring his shoes off quickly.

I would definately keep thinking positively though, as it probably can be treated.

 

[HollyP]

I do know what your talking about with the hind, can you push him through it? my mare had gone through rehab and id got back on (just walk + a mad gallop ~unplanned) but she just didnt feel comfortable.....i moved her home 5 weeks ago and have let her be a horse....shes been living out (was box rested for 9months previously) and she has piled on weight and muscle...iv just been lunging on a rope and halter with no pessao and she is working well....will start riding again but want to get the saddle right...my insurance runs out in june so iv got physio coming on the 8th (earliest) and then will see how much she needs...!

its a tricking one....i dont reallyknwo what wil happen but im just taking my time now and we are bonding! she is 16 btw and had the op in oct!

i do know that my mare is weak in one of her hinds and before surgery physio aws convinced it was sacro but vet said it only appeared that as she had no topline so a lot of pressure was being put on the sacro hence why there was some pain!

no idea what iv waffled on about! haha honestly its all a nightmare but im just glad iv found something to do with Bridie while she recovers .. yes im guilty iv turned to parelli (dont shoot me) i just love the bond im getting with her!

x

 

[emjhastings]

Thanks guys, I am not giving up hope yet, she looks so well in herself. She is back living out now and I have given her the weekend off. I am now trying to give her a dose of bute for a few days to see if that makes a difference. She did trot up last night without dragging but she was dragging again this morning when I lunged her and she look uncomfertable. I just have to keep trying and if she has to go back down to the vet hospital again so be it, after all the pain she has gone through for me I think I owe her!
Em x

 

[Halfpass]

KS and sacro illiac problems tend to go hand in hand.
Can I ask what rehab programmes you used post KS op?
Have you had a physio out to you rhorse since the op?

 

[CBAnglo]

It does sound like the SI. Thing is, the steroid injection wears off after time - mine usually last about 3 months.

It may be that she needs another steroid injection, but the best thing to do is to try and keep as much of a topline as possible. The sacroiliac ligament will never heal - this becomes a chronic injury which the horse learns to cope with by adapting his way of going. It means that he will most likely appear lame on one hind leg, the pelvis will be lower on that side, and he will have reciprocal back pain.

Do a search on sacroliac injuries on here - there are loads of threads about rehab etc. As Halfpass says, they tend to go hand in hand with KS.

 

[emjhastings]

Thanks again for the info, it really nice to see all the advice and to feel like there are people out there to help. She had the steriod injection in November so maybe it has worn off, I was hoping it would last longer. I have also noticed that she has just developed some really hard muscle on the top of her rump, this may be related. It is definatly not normal.

The rehab after her op started off with 3 weeks box rest walking in hand for 1/2 and hour twice a day, after three weeks she could go into the paddock for a few hours a day increasing it so that after 6 weeks she was back out all the time. Also after the first 3 weeks we started lunging also increasing week by week. For the last week we were lunging for 5mins walk and 5 mins trot both reigns in a pesseoa. If any one has other suggestions on how I can encourage her to work correctly I would really appreciate your advice. I am not the best rider in the world and struggle to get her on the bit. When I first started lunging her after her op she was going really well and tracking up, this has gotten worse now and I haven't ridden her since the op.

Many thanks

Em x

 

[HollyP]

You need to do much more lunging work, Bridie was lunged for 30 min a day 7 days a week for 2 months (1st month was building up to that) you will also need to introduce canter etc before you think about getting back on....

............

any pics!

 

[CBAnglo]

Your vet should have given you a fairly strict rehab program to stick to. You will need to work with a good chiro/physio as well.

PM Bounty as she has just been through this with her gelding, and is back hacking him out at the moment. She had lots of set backs with infection etc so I think it has been a year.

You need to be lunging every day really to get the top line back although it is never going to be perfect, you need to try to build up as much as you can.

My boy has a chronic SI injury, and he is only worked 4-5 times a week. 2x lunging, 2 x schooling and 1x hacking. Sometimes he has a couple of weeks off of he has tweaked something, and sometimes he does more work. I no longer jump him. He doesnt have steroid injections.

The other one had his first injection in January and there was no change. Riding him now to see how lame he is going to get, but I dont think he will be capable of more than a couple of 30 mins hack in walk, with a couple of short trots if he is in the mood, per week. I would retire him, but he is only 6 so I am going to see how much work he can do (been walking for 6 weeks, have another 2 to go before try trotting) and then reassess. Vet put chances of coming back into full work as very poor.

Also, with SI I find that they need as much t/o as possible to stop them getting so stiff, and my chiro comes out every 2 to 3 months, or as required. You also need to be aware of saddle fit as their backs change very rapidly as soon as they are in/out of work. Its expensive keeping an injured horse, I could retire them both and get two sound horses for the same cost - the thought has crossed my mind on more than one occasion, but knowing my luck I would just end up with 4 lame horses!

 

[emjhastings]

Thanks again for all the help, just to let you know we are off to the vet hospital again on Monday. Will keep people updated. My local vet was out last night and worst case it is a damaged nerve, which means there is nothing we can do. I am hoping that it is SI and hocks again at least then we can inject and work through. My poor baby she has been through so much and it is still not over. To top it all off she is losing her two field buddies this weekend. Sorry for the rant. Thanks again for your help. Em x

 

[vicky18]

hi please could you help me, my boy has kissing spine, he has had steroid inj physo ect not worked, had gammer scan, any way he needs op, he has just turned 10, dont no what to do, please please any one out there who has had op on there horse, could you please get in touch, love my boy so much, email vickver@aol.com thx

 

[vicky18]

hi, my horse has kissing spine, he has had gammer scan, vet said he can do op, he needs a lot removed, op will take about 2hrs, under sedation, dont no what to do, as your horse has been through this could you please get in touch, and let me no how your horse was, how much pain after op ect, i would really appreciate this, thx so much, email vickver@aol.com

 

[troyboy]

Hi, My 10yr old horse has recently been diagnosed with kissing spine as i noticed this was just more than muscular pain with him whilst grooming, he has not behaved badly to ride but sometimes jumps like a stag or refuses and goes disunited in canter. I dont do much on him just pop the odd log, small show jumps and hack, i've bin told by my physio to make the most of him while i can, he still has good muscle covered on his spine and she reccomends feeding him oil and maybe devils claw but no need for any excessive treatment for what i want to do. Any one any thoughts on this as i dont want to be asking him to do something that is causing him pain as he is too honest and will still do it.

 

[Birker2020]

I see you mention dragging of toes of hind feet and this is a symptom of bone spavin (arthritis of hocks). Its my belief (although I don't mind standing corrected on this point) that kissing spines is as a result of over compensation for pain in the hind legs and the horse concertina's their body in order to 'get away' from the dicomfort in their hind quarters. Bone spavin is not an insurmountable problem so don't worry. Injections into the hocks could in most cases acheive an excellent outcome as can Tildren. Did you notice when lunging that she was worse on one rein than the other? Did she try to swap her hind legs over on the circle on the lunge? I'd be guided by what your vet says, so try not to worry too much.