Kissing spine - end of the lline?

[Stasha22]

My 8 year old mare was diagnosed with severe kissing spine yesterday. X-rays showed severe impingment on 8 vertebrae.

My vet has said there is not much that they can do for her. Apparently she cannot have steroid injections as the vertebrae as so close together and so many are effected and obviously surgery is not an option.

Vet said my only option is to manage her pain with shock wave treatment. She had the first session yesterday and will be having a further two sessions over the next month. She will need to have this treatment every six months.

Obviously I am absolutely devastated by this. She is my world and I adore her. I am gutted that I will never be able to ride her again but even more gutted by the thought that she will need treatment for the rest of her life. Plus her insurance does not cover her back due to a previous problem which makes the situation even harder.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I always thought kissing spine was treatable and the majority of horses returned to an active life. I don't know if it is worth getting a second opinion by a speciallist?

Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[AmyMay]

A few horses on here have had surgery for kissing spines.

Here is one of them.

Don't give up hope and get a referred to a good equine specialist like the Wilsley Practice.

 

[Tempi]

if the kissing spine is really severe (like it is in your horse) then it cant always be operated on. Personally i would get a referal to a top veterinary practice aswell for a second opinion perhaps?

But I think you need to think about the quality of life your mare will be having, and how much pain she is going to be in, and perhaps have a word with your vet. I know its hard to think about but you should also be aware that having her PTS might be a kind option to her, as she is obviously in a lot of pain, and will be for the rest of her life.

Im not saying that heartlessly as i can understand what you are going through. I know 2 people who have horses with KS, one was PTS recently (had a large number of fused vertebrae) and the other one was sucessfully operated on, however it only had 3 fused vertebrae.

xx

 

[Vixter]

My mare was diagnosed with it, but on only one vertebrae. She had the steriods injections, but I don't think they helped. The surgery dosn't always work and is extremely invasive. I would definatley get a second opinion though. The thing I found helped her most and that built her back muscles up really well was long and low lungeing. Pessoa style, although I just used a lunge line looped through a loop under the surcingle. What causes the pain is the muscle compensating and building up around the spine, and I found horse massage really helped my mare as well, I continued riding and competing her and she was fine. So don't give up, yet...

 

[cazza]

Which vets are you with? PM me who has looked at her, if it's not the ones we use I would highly recommend them. We have had a couple of horses with various diagnosis that other vets have advised on having PTS and they are now fully recovered and are in active and competing lifestyles.

 

[Tempi]

With horses that only have one vertebrae fused time off and then lunging in a pessoa can help.

My friend has a horse with one fused - he had 6 months off work, and then she started lunging him 6days a week in a pessoa. After 2months in the pessoa she rode him twice a week on a loose rein doing lots of hill work in trot. Now he is hunting weekly and has been x country schooling aswell. Currently he is going really wel, but i dont know what the prognosis is for later on in life.

However the more vertebrae that are fused the worse the prognosis is unfortunately

 

[Stasha22]

Thanks for all your replies.

It's not sounding good really is it?

I am considering finding a speciallist to see her, but as she is not covered by the insurance and the shockwave treatment and x-rays etc are going to cost me about £500 I am rather restricted financially.

My main concern is pain. If she can be pain free than that's fine, she will just be a retired and very spoilt girly. My vet was optimistic than the shockwave treatment would result in her being pain free as apparently it will kill the nerves in that area. Obviously the nerves will grow back but she said that we can repeat the shockwave treatment when that happens.

The last thing I want is for her to suffer at all. I guess the best thing to do is wait until she has had all the sessions and see how she has responded.

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
My vet was optimistic than the shockwave treatment would result in her being pain free as apparently it will kill the nerves in that area

[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't think that that was what shockwave treatment did.......

 

[Stasha22]

Doesn't it??????!!!!!!!!

She referred to it as being similar to having a non permanent neurectomy.

God I hope I've not been given a load of rubbish.

 

[AmyMay]

I'm sure you're not being fed rubbish at all, but I found this usefull when considering shockwave for my horse for another reason.

Shockwave

 

[Tempi]

Also you need to think about whether financially you want to keep paying for a horse you cant do anything with

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
Also you need to think about whether financially you want to keep paying for a horse you cant do anything with

[/ QUOTE ]

In your shoes I would be getting a second opinion. Having read the success stories on here of surgery on some horses, I certainly wouldn't write the horse off yet.

 

[miller]

A friend of mine had one diagnosed at Newmarket around 18 months ago. She had 6 spinal impingements from the where the back of the saddle sits towards her tail.

She was told surgery was not an option, was given shockwave and told to hack and straight lines working her as long and low as possible (with draw reins if necessary

) to build up her topline muscles,

Sadly, the mare was never really any better and would violently buck the girl off.

The owner was having problems fitting in the horse and A Levels and didn't want to sell her on and risk her hurting someone so sadly she was PTS.

 

[BethH]

Before you take any decision, have your vet refer your mare's x-rays to Svend Kold at Willersley Equine Clinic. My personal view is that he is the best in the country at this particular condition (he operated on my horse last year who is now doing well - I did a massive amount of research as like you I adore my horse, he is seriously one of the family and I was devastated, definitely thought it was the end of the road for him as he become positively dangerous from the pain he was in ). Willersley have a website and you can look up his profile. He does a least a couple of these ops each week and is clever with it.

8 is a lot of vertebrae to be touching but he is very honest and will tell you if he can operate or not, he has done some severe cases and if anyone can help he can, if not you will at least know where you stand. He tries to keep costs down for the owner and is better value than any other surgeon I know of because he is clever in the way he operates.

My ned could not lift his back at all and couldn't move his hind end properly, he has made a remarkable recover after having 3 lots of crossing bones operated on. If you would like to pm to ask any questions please do - contrary to popular belief fusing of the bones is incredibly rare and if you do want to speak to Svend I know he will answer any questions or concerns you have. I have written about this condition at length on this website and if you are able to scroll back to last june/july you will see a lot of information about my ned on there. There are also a number of others who have been through this op who I am sure will also be happy to answer any questions, this has become almost routine now but again, as your mare has quite a severe case take the professionals advice.

My thoughts are with you and I wish you the very best of luck, let me know if you need my help.

 

[debradley]

I agree wholeheartedly with BethH; Svend at Willesley did my horse about 19 weeks ago; she had three removed and is making a remarkable recovery from her KS op. I know that he can't operate on all cases but before you make any decision it would be worth having her looked at by Svend. The cost of the xrays and scans is around £600. He will be able to tell from there whether or not it is operable. He is very honest and only wants what is best for the horse, he won't waste your time. I have great admiration for him.

Good luck my thoughts are with you.

 

[dieseldog]

[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't it??????!!!!!!!!

She referred to it as being similar to having a non permanent neurectomy.

God I hope I've not been given a load of rubbish.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been told that as well - that it affects the nerves, it is also more successful on recent injuries. Willesley were qqouting me about £130 per shockwave session as well.

 

[seabiscuit]

Definately get a second opinion. Fella below in my siggy had KS surgery- 3 removed. Was done at Willesley by Svend.

 

[seabiscuit]

P.S Svend told me that they do operate successfully on horses like yours, but they do have to do two seperate operations as the max they can take out at a time is 3 or 4. It is achievable!

 

[1964]

my horse has been out of work since may with kissing spines,
his problem is all the way through although its the t11, t12 and t13 just by his withers that are causing the problems, i cant girth him up and now he has a mental problem with it all even though they did a nerve block on him and put a steriod in the area he still has a problem with the girthing up. so im having to get his mental state sorted.
but he needs the op which im really worried about and my own vets said they can do it but it worrys me if the other vertabre behind the saddle towards his tail will cause any problems in the future, but my vet seems to think they are not the problem, its the ones by his withers and i have seen the xrays and can clearly see it,
i will be phoneing willersely clinic tomorrow to see if svend will look at his xrays and give his opinion, thanks to deb and beth for all your post on it with my boy oz and will be geting intouch with svend.
so i would give them a go if i was you as so many people on this site speak so highly of him and get another opinion, by all acounts i think my boy is quite bad with his ks they are touching, some cause more problems than others.
all the best anita

 

[BethH]

Well you have nothing to lose by asking the questions and you can make an informed decision from there. My vet sent my x-rays to Svend and he didn't charge me anything to look and see if he could help. When Ryan arrived at Willersley for the op, they then took further x-rays, and within 20mins of arriving I was sitting down in Svend's office looking at them, with him telling me the way ahead.

There are so many success stories for KS operations now, but of course there are always cases where it woluld be unfair to go ahead, at least by investigating you know you will have done your best. I am similar to you, I didn't care if Ryan was retired at 6 and happy to live pain free in the field, I operated to get rid of the pain, the fact that I am now able to ride him was a bonus I didn't allow myself to hope for. Ryan's behaviour become so bad the vet wrote to my insurer to say if they wouldn't allow the op he would have to consider PTS as he was a danger to handle let alone ride, Ryan is now a poppet again 99% of the time (unfortunately the other 1% of the time he is a complete git but at least I don't feel like I am about to die any more!!!!!!!!!!! - and this is more his stubborn connemara personality rather than anything else!)

Good luck, let us know how you get on and contact us if you need any support, there are many people on here who would be happy to help as we have all been helped in some way by talking to users on this site.

 

[Stasha22]

Thank you all so much for your replies.

I have decided to send her x-rays over to Svend Kold at Willesley Equine following your recommendations. Only problem is he is away for the next 2 weeks so I will have to wait a little while but that's not the end of the world.

Thanks again for all your help and advice, it has been very much appreciated.

 

[Tiggy1]

Good luck and hope you get somethng sorted!

 

[Fahrenheit]

You could speak to Olly at Willesley whilst Svend is away, he works along side Svend and is very very good.

Good Luck x

 

[debradley]

If Svends away speak to Olly - really great!! Glad you're getting a second opinion. Keep your pecker up we're all here for you. Don't hesitate to pm me if you need to talk to someone who's been through this; there's alot of us on here and a lot who have been a fantastic support to me. It's the least I can do in return. Dont' despare yet.

 

[1964]

hi, just wanted to say please would you let me know how you get on with speaking to svend when he gets back as im waiting to speak to him aswell about my horse Oz, he has kissing spines quite bad and he needs operatingon one vet has said they will do it but they are to far away and because svend has been so highly recommended thats why im going to him, but my vet has said my horse needs about 7 vertebra removing, good luck and whould be great to hear how you get on.
anita x