kissing spine/SI -How do you know when it's time to say goodbye?

M

Maz55

Well-Known Member
Joined
5 January 2013
Messages
274
Visit site
I'm looking for some advice from those who have sadly had to put horses to sleep - when do you know the time is right? My horse was diagnosed with kissing spine and sacroiliac dysfunction in January. Newmarket vets gave her less than 50% chance of success with an operation. I sent her to a holistic vet who treated her and did osteopathy and she came sound (albeit not 100%) and comfortable after three months and a month ago I brought her home and I was advised to slowly bring her back into work. I've followed the programme to the letter and she was doing really well but over the last week she has started dragging the toes of her hind legs so I know all is not well again. It's heartbreaking to watch her. It's obvious it hurts her to pick up her back legs although she seems ok in every other respect she is a very stoic horse so it's hard to tell. I'm taking her back to the vet next week but I'm not optimistic they'll be able to do anything and I can't afford another three months of treatment. I've trawled the internet for anything that will give me hope to make her right again but I'm running out of options.

Shes had problems with her liver so I don't want to give her bute. I'm doing groundwork with her to get her to use her body properly again as she has soo many compensation issues now and core strengthening exercises and she has magnetic rug and boots on every night. I'll give anything a go but I can't help thinking that maybe nothing will work and I've got to accept she won't get better.

I can't send her to a retirement yard because she can't live out 24/7 because she gets really sore front feet if she's turned out 24/7 and I put a grazing muzzle on during the day so it would never work. I can't afford two horses so I'll have to give up riding which is heartbreaking enough but to be honest I'm more concerned for her than me at the moment. It's breaking my heart thinking about it and I can't stop crying, but I can't help wondering if I shouldn't just put her to sleep and try to move on with my life. The last year has been hell. So what would you do if you were me? Does anyone know of anything else I haven't tried?
 
There are a few options for treatment for KS and SI and def stories of people getting their horses back fit and well enough to work, although at varying levels. Def worth having an investigation and talking to your vet. Great FB Group too called Horses with kissing spine. Lots of positive experiences on there. I know you're very down at the moment but it might not be as bad as you think. Xx
 
Maz55 it sounds to me like you need a trainer who is experienced in rehabilitation. Did you horse go to Donna Blinman per chance? My WB has chronic SI dysfunction and I got LOU on him. Several weeks of inhand work followed then he went to Donna and was turned away for a year.

I started to bring him back into inhand work and then gently ridden, but we just got stuck in the same rut. He moved in a compensatory way as he had done for many years. Then I found my new rehab trainer who is so brilliant. She is an expert on straightness issues and whilst it has been a slow process with my boy (mainly down to his mental block about his ability to do things) we have made such good headway that I am about to start riding him again after several months of ground work. My trainer is honest - she will tell you if she can help. I am in Essex, but there are many good straightness trainers out there who address issues like KS and SI problems/dysfunction with specific inhand work to start with. 'Retraining the way the horse moves'.
Below are some links you may find interesting regarding straightness:

Interesting stuff from Dr Kerry Ridgeway:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW1jmME7kVw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COk2ntaGzXg

Marijke de Jong: Good visuals:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuu6NehUxJY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I46lNbZGRmc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0iHaPVEjhQ

This chap has also done amazing things with horses with KS - here's his fb link:

https://www.facebook.com/scienceofmotion?hc_location=stream
 
Last edited:
YasandCrystal Thanks soo much. Yes I did send her to Donna but I wasn't advised to turn her away. I'm also in Essex! I've just started straightness training with a lady called Maxine Kemp who has a similar approach to marike de jong but with my horse going lame again I lost hope of anything working - I thought (maybe wrongly) she'd need to be comfortable first. If you don't mind me asking what happened when you say you got "stuck in a rut" and Who are you using? It's so good to hear a good story and I wish you well!!!
 
Thank you A Musing. I can't tell you what it means to have someone say something positive for a change! For months and months people have been telling me to give up but i've been battling on cos i love my horse so much. xx
 
Ah yes Maxine is my trainer too. My advice is to trust her Maz55 and be patient. When I say stuck in a rut re my horse Tim - he is so used to dragging one of his hinds and his back was like a banana and bent to the outside on the right rein. All the ridden dressage trainers we had prior to diagnosis insisted on bending his neck to the inside - this he found so difficult that he started bucking over his ears. My horse had likely had an accident at age 2 years old - Sue Dyson at Newmarket reckoned - so he had been broken in and ridden with that pain and dysfunction for a couple of years.
I really think the horse has to be moving 100% right on the ground before you get on and ride. Tim would show lame quite often in the groundwork with Maxine - he goes wobbly and stumbly and it is only because he hasn't moved that way before. He is improving slowly and steadily every week. You can't be far from me, I am in Colchester. Have you used a physio at all? I used Jackie Grant (busy but very good) and I have now bought my own muscle stimulator unit. I use the pads over his sacrum. Armas on here uses one on his horse and posted a video of it. It only cost £40 and I am sure it is helping to stimulate his muscles into action too.
Anytime you want to talk or compare notes or visit - please feel free to pm me. It's a lonely road unless you can offload and ask stuff.
 
so sorry to hear what you are going through. my horse didnt have kissing spines but he did have DJD in his hocks. treatment didnt work and neither did rest or slow work to help aid fusion. I knew the time had come to say good bye when the lights went out . there was no other way to describe it. physically he looked fine ( ignoring the stiffness - i mean condition coat etc ) but over 48 hrs he switched off in his head and he went from living to existing . I dont even know what changed he didnt appear to be in any worse pain or any stiffer but I knew it was time to let go. yes you owe it to them and to yourself to have tried to make them better but sometimes you cant and then it is time to remember they have no concept of the future only the now and a quick dignified exit is a good and positive thing.
 
Okay, I've been here and I know it's utter h*ll, so you have my sincere sympathies. I still have my mare (though I came within hours of pts at one stage and thought about it long and hard several times). She's not in work and hasn't been for a few years, but that's currently under review....

Firstly, you've been following the programme recommended - are you also having your girl regularly seen by a chiro and physio? That, for mine, was key to several of our attempts at rehab. Secondly, you also haven't mentioned whether you've tried mesotherapy and/or steroid injections into her back to support her while you're building the right muscles - they're quite well thought of as alternatives to the op. Thirdly, you might also want to talk to your vets about using Danilon instead of Bute (as a short term support), as it's gentler on the liver. (Apologies if you've already tried any of these!!!).

Finally, I thought there was no way in h*ll I could turn my mare away at a retirement yard. She's got EMS (so very lami prone) and always needed a grazing muzzle. I'd also tried to turn her away for a year at our yard and she sulked, fretted, paced the fence and generally had hissy fits about doing nothing. I eventually decided I had nothing left to lose and had a long chat with Nat from Monshall Rest and Retirement Livery. My girl is down there and has been for two years. The set-up there is so adaptable they've managed to find her a field and a herd where she's happy, settled, doesn't need her grazing muzzle, and hasn't had any episodes of lami. She's looking tonnes better for the time off, has come sound, and no longer seems sore over her back, so I'm currently contemplating giving her one more shot at coming back into work. If I don't, I know she's safe and not in pain down there - and not reducing me to a sobbing, frustrated wreck trying to work out how to fix her. And I really really never thought she'd cope with retirement. Sometimes places surprise you :-)
 
Thanks wyrdsister - sorry to hear about your mare, I really hope your attempts to bring her back into work are successful for you. No I haven't had her see chiro or physio. She has had three months of osteopathy so not sure if chiro work will add anything (but open to suggestions!) but I definitely plan to get some physio for her. I didn't try mesotherapy but she had the injections in her back and the si and neither had much of an effect.
I'm taking her back to see my holistic vet/osteopath next week so will see what she advises then.
 
I have a mare I've been bringing back into work since May. She used to be ours then we sold her, she came back to us (given) 4yrs later with KS. She had Winter off and to be honest was worse for it. She lost the muscle she had built up at the last place she lived so it was the worst thing I could have done with her. Physio came at the end of May and to say she was sore is an understatement. She gave me a programme of in hand work for 6 weeks, raised poles and in hand out on the roads up and down hills. We did this every day and I also bought her a magnetic rug.

At the end of June Physio came again and was amazed at the muscle difference in my horse. She then gave the go ahead to ride her, just for a short time, up hills as far as possible and to build up the time gradually. Saddle was checked too to make sure it was ok for her. She is still doing pole work too in between hacking and so far is doing really well and looking good. The hacking out is going well and she's loving it.

We dont have any Insurance cover so I am completely reliant on what the Physio tells me, shes back to see her in September. My horse has 1 Danilon a day and has had 2 tubs of Equitop Myoplast initially to help with the muscle development. She is on Top Spec chop and their Comprehensive Balancer along with a conditioning mix. So far so good. I was worried about the mental block she might have, ie doesnt like having her girth done up, but she is getting better about this, we seem to be winning.

I know it could go wrong at any time so am just takingit all day by day and see how it al goes.
 
I lost my mare to KS .SI issues,hock changes,suspensory damage and supraspinous ligament damage - she just lost her sparkle as she too was a very stoic mare - she was very over protective of herself in the field,would only graze uphill and horrendous behaviour under saddle - I was given some options by the vet with regards to shockwave,operations etc but I couldn't do it to her - she hated being stabled outside of her normal routine and walk work didn't really come in her vocab so I made the decision to let her go - I will never forgive myself for putting her out on loan. I hope you manage to find a system that works for you and your horse x
 
toomanyhorses26 said:
I lost my mare to KS .SI issues,hock changes,suspensory damage and supraspinous ligament damage - she just lost her sparkle as she too was a very stoic mare - she was very over protective of herself in the field,would only graze uphill and horrendous behaviour under saddle - I was given some options by the vet with regards to shockwave,operations etc but I couldn't do it to her - she hated being stabled outside of her normal routine and walk work didn't really come in her vocab so I made the decision to let her go - I will never forgive myself for putting her out on loan. I hope you manage to find a system that works for you and your horse x
Click to expand...

Gosh poor you toomany :(
 
toomanyhorses26 thanks for your kind words - I'm so very sorry to hear about your mare. I'm sure you did your best for her. x
 
Best of luck with it Maz55. I really hope your girl comes right for you. Don't be afraid to shop around for a physio. I tried 3 (including the one my vet practice recommended), before I found one that really helped my girly. (Although she's still sort of broken, it's not her back that's a problem any more; she's been given the all clear there!). Ask your vet about mesotherapy and possible return to work support supplements (if not danilon or bute, is there something else they can recommend?). And if all fails, don't be hard on yourself. You're doing everything you can for her.
 
Thankyou Maz55, time will tell with my mare. I regret selling her but then hindsight is a wonderful thing. She was ridden incorrectly by the person who bought her from us but theres nothing I can do about that now, only concentrate on hopefully getting her right. My Physio is really good at what she does and I have absolute faith in her. We have followed her advice and recommendations to the letter.
Persevere with your horse and gently does it, Im not rushing a thing. Its funny how small milestones can mean your heading in the right direction, like not running away from me in the field therefore not associating me with pain. She did this once just after I rode her for the first time but hasnt done it since.

Its such a shame as she is a very talented horse and loved her jumping and XC, won at Dressage and was a brilliant competition horse when we sold her. Its extremely sad when they are broken and you know what they used to be like.
 
Thanks Lark. Unfortunately my insurance cover has run out so not sure if this is going to be an option for me, plus my horse's biggest issue seems to be with the SIJs, but I will email them and enquire, thank you.
 
Update - my girl has deteriorated again :( I spoke to Cotts Equine and he said the surgery would only be an option if she showed significant improvement with injections to back and SI done at same time (injections done on her before were done separately and didn't work) and he suggested having her hooves xrayed to check for imbalance with a view to remedial shoeing if necessary - she's currently barefoot on holistic vet/osteopath's advice. I spoke to my vet about Cotts Equine's surgery (on ligaments not bones) and she spoke to Rossdales who were of the view it isn't very successful and only the full blown procedure would do for my girl - but as i said they didn't rate her chances because of her bad SI problem. She's going back to the osteopath on friday and is having regular physio (who isn't very optimistic). Wondering whether to try the two lots of injections done at the same time and xrays but vet is quoting £600+ and i'm rapidly running out of money. what would you do?
 
Not successful? Where are they getting that from? It's at least as successful as DSP removal, with lower infection rates and shorter rehab.

This is my horse today, done twenty days ago

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...top_uri=/watch?v=YW2LKU1Zzuk&feature=youtu.be


I'm not saying your horse could be operated on this,way but your vet should not be telling people that it does not work. The success rate I can find online is 95% and about 1,000 have now been done.

Those that fail are often due to SI and/or PSD issues. Thankfully my horse has neither of those. We are hopeful that it will have solved his problems when I ride in another three weeks.
 
Last edited:
I would not inject. The injections produced a spectacular result in my horse - for three weeks, then he was worse than he had ever been before :(
 
In a similar position with my mare. She was diagnosed with severe KS, with 6 impinging vertebraes from withers to behind the saddle. She also has active spondoloyis and excess bone in her stifle joint. Just going to retire her, she's only 12 but I she has been such a willing and wonderful horse. We were told there is nothing they can do for her as they could operate on the KS and the stifle but the spondoloyis, which is still growing new bone, cannot be accessed to do anything useful.
 
YasandCrystal said:
Oh yes of course - not with it today. I am inpressed with cptrayes horse's recovery following surgery.
Click to expand...

So am I!!!


He's also moving a lot straighter in front than he used to. He's lost, mostly, an outward knee swing coupled with an inward foot swing. Big changes going on in his feet (always barefoot) too.

OP I do hope you can find a solution.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top