Kissing Spine

[debradley]

After months of physo with no improvement my vet last week diagnosed my horse with kissing spine. She is now on a strong course of bute for 3 wks and will then be reassessed but vet did say not to get my hopes up as it doesn't look good. I haven't had any scans or x-ray's done yet so don't know full extent. Could anyone tell what the general success rate of having the op done is and also give me a rough idea of how much it should all cost (scans op etc); as I don't think my insurance will cover it all. Also do they usually gain the full range of movement back after the op? My beautiful girl is only 12 and I've had her for 7 yrs so don't want to give up on her, but I don't want to see her in this much pain and discomfort.

 

[louise1967]

I have already responded to someone this week whos horse has kissing spine. My horse was diagnosed with kissing spine after me thinking she was cold backed for 2 years, the x-ray picked it up her spine was touching in two places. I was never offered the op, but she was sent to Liz Launders back treatment centre in Glos where she was put through a intense finness regime to get the muscles in her back to push her spine back up and force the spine apart. She was there for about a month and came back better than new. I was given a strict excercise programme that I had to follow which included lunging three times per week and always to ride her in an outline and she wasnt aloud to have anymore than 1 or two days off at a time, but she was cured
AND I DONE THE BADMINTON RIDE THE 1ST WEEK I HAD HER BACK. SHE FLEW ROUND!!!!

 

[dozzie]

Just going through this myself. Dont yet know if its kissing spine and waiting for insurance company to give go ahead to scans, Sods law Ive just sent forms in and now her back leg is doing funny things! Quote from vet is that scans and xrays will be £2000 and if she needs op it will be about £3000. Said I should get a bit of change from £5000!!!! Lets hope insurance will pay but I dont know! I will probably run out of insurance cover anyway so will have to pay for rehab myself if she needs an op. Hope this gives a rough idea for you.

Good luck, I'll let you know the results of my scans if we need to share notes!

 

[debradley]

Hi there. Thks for getting back to me. I'm waiting for insurance too at mo. I managed to contact a vet in Glos who specialises in this field and they have quoted approx £2000 + vat for op. Vet reckons approx £3000 for scans/xrays which I think might be a bit steep. But it still adds up to the same amount you're talking about which is just a bit higher than my insurance cover. We've tried all the exercises and lunging/long reining with physo with no luck so if op is viable it seems my only option. I'll do a bit more homework between now and the vets next visit. If I get any news I'll keep in touch. My mares left back leg is doing funny things too but apparently this maybe a side effect of the kissing spine as she was in so much pain before the bute she'd completely locked her back and has a lot of muscle wastage so the leg has a very limited range of movement, but best to mention it and get it checked, just incase. Good luck with your mare. I'm glad someone else understands that chestnut mares have very original personalities and when you get a good one they love you forever (their way!!!).

 

[louise1967]

Yes do keep me posted. I was insured with the NFU who paid up instantly and I would never insure with anyone else. I havent actually got my mare anymore unfortunately I had to give her to the rest home for horses not because the treatment wasnt a success but due to some bad cicumstances ie; losing my job, house, car and partner all in the space of 1 month and getting salmonella it was virtualy impossible for me to keep her and keep up the fitness regime, I hoped by letting the sanctuary have her I could visit her but they re-homed her and its my biggest regret in life letting her go, especially now that my partner who I have been with for 6 years his family have their own stables GUTTED!!!!

 

[seabiscuit]

Hi,
I've posted several times about my horses op, if you do a search in this section,you'll find a few threads on it.

My horse was operated on by Svend Kold at Willesely Equine clinic in Gloucs in April 2005. Several other forum members from here ( Caritas, Beth H) have also had their horses operated on by Svend. He really is the leading expert on these operations, and has the best regime and aftercare program. The after care and rehab program is more important than the actual operation itself- get the rehab and exercise program wrong then the operation will be a failure.
In fact I believe that lots of KS ops have failed because the horses have had the WRONG after care/excercise program but providing you get the aftercare right then the op will, and should be a total success. This is why I sent my horse to be operated on at Willesely rather than a top hospital which is just next door to me.

Anyway back to my horse ( sorry this is a long post!!) he had the excess bone on three vertebrate removed. Kissing spine causes excess bone build up between the vertebrate and all the operation is doing is simply removing that excess bone which is rubbing and causing friction and inflammation. The day after the op Owen was walking out in hand every day.

Two weeks later I got him home and he was walking out in hand for ten mins twice a day. Over 6 weeks,This built up to one hour a day ( either long reining or on the horsewalker). Then 6 weeks after his op he started a intensive lunging program in the Pessoa, building up to walk, trot and canter over poles over a further 6 weeks. Then finally 3 months after his op he went back to Svend for a check up, and x rays. Hey presto it was magic- the horse was walking, trotting and cantering on the lunge in perfect balance, which he was not able to do so before.

The pessoa does have to be set tight to really make them use their backs, A lot of people really dont like this forced contraption, but its the only way to help these horses.
So 3 months post op I started riding him again and built him up to full fitness work. Svends instructions are that he still has to be lunged twice a week in the Pessoa for the rest of his ridden life, to remind him how to use his back properly.

Anyway one year on Ive just registered the horse with british eventing. He has had a few stops and starts because he went mad in the field one day galloping about like a loon ( he felt so bloody good, that was the problem!) and I dont know what he did to himself, so he had to have months off, but is now back in proper work again after a very rocky start- the time off had been terrible for him as it had made him very stiff.

But now I swear he is a good as new and he has always shown flashes of very good movement before his op ( but it was never consistent, cos he was as stiff as a donkey) but now he moves just stunning. Was absolutely awesome over a jump as well the other day, have never felt his back move so much and spring over a fence..

Re; you mentioned that your mare had funny movement behind. Ditto that with owen, but he has a hock spavin as well, which caused the funny action behind. Svend was not in the least bit bothered about the spavin and says that now the back is right- everything else will come right. And so it has. But also SO important is the best farrier you can possibly find, and a well fitting saddle - serge panels worked REALLY well on my horse ( he has a saddle company saddle which has made the world of difference to him) also think that his joint supps are important too, plus the use of physio and H wave machines...

Good luck... Svend said that he was adamant that he has had a lot of success with this operation, combined with his follow up rehab program, and he says that many horses are now doing MUCH better. I got the impression that he thinks that any and every horse with KS should be operated on, it just makes life easier for the horse. He is in the middle of writing a paper about it now with his results..

Oh it should cost something like £500 for initial consultations and x rays, £2500 for operation, and then another £500 for follow up consultations and x rays...

 

[debradley]

Wow thank you so much for such a detailed and positive reply. My vet has me working Honey in a tight pessoa at the moment but only in walk and just as much as she can do because she is in so much pain at the moment and everything is so inflamed and stiff, but he wants to see if he can lift her first. I have a serge panel Saddle Company saddle and they made it for her, it's the only thing that she is even moderately comfortable to work in and she does try to give her all; although she still likes to canter round the field like an idiot bossing my other pony around when I turn her out first thing in the morning. Even then though when I watch her her back legs just bunny hop together. I'll know a bit more on the 3rd May when my vet is due back out and I do think that I'll ask for her to be assessed by Svend Kold, he's only in the next county so not too far to travel; hopefully the insurance will agree. Again thanks so much for your extensive advice. Will keep everyone posted.

 

[seabiscuit]

Its no problem at all- its thanks to people on this forum that helped me out and reccomended Svend so its the least that I can do to pass the info on and help out other people because I was at the end of my tether with Owen, he was such a total utter cripple back then, the poor boy.
Do keep us all updated on your mare!

 

[BethH]

Way to go forrest - what a lovely positive post. I agree with all that has been said only difference is that I used long reins instead of peessoa as Ryan hated the restriction and bucked a lot which I thought probably wouldn't do his back much good but then he is more than a little over sensitive! Am happy to be pm'd if you need any help or advice. Sounds like you want to help your ned so I would definitely get x-rays sent to Svend Kold, he is very honest and incredibly professional.

 

[Caritas]

I agree with BethH and Forrest completely although I dont lunge my horse now from one month to the next and when Svend or my back lady see's him, they say what great condition he is in and how well he looks. My signature pictures of of my boy last weekend, 15 months after his op. Good luck and do let us know how the scans go!!

 

[debradley]

All I can say is what a fabulous looking horse. If I can get Honey looking like that I will be over the moon; at the moment she looks like a cut n shut; carthorse in front and a foal behind, but I'm really pleased that everything I've heard on the forum has been positive. Hard work and determination has never been a problem for either of us, so the rehab will just be an opportunity to do more bonding and team work for me and Honey. I just have to convince all the other professionals that she's worth it. Thank you everyone I'll keep you posted and once I figure out how to put some pictures on you'll be able to see my beautiful girl (ok so I'm biased!)

 

[BethH]

I am going to try and post some photos just can't work out how to do it, Caritas - I know you've asked me for this a couple of times but am technically hopeless! Ryan isn't built naturally for dressage but he tries his best bless him and is doing walk pirouetes (I know i've spelt that wrong!) very nicely and today managed to do a straight leg yield - pretty hard for a horse that has never used it's back legs properly before the op so I am thrilled with him.

Debradley - please keep us up to date, I am sure I speak for everyone when I say that whatever help you need just ask as we have all been through it and you will have highs and lows, Ryan has only been back in work for 9 months, he had very little muscle and was totally re-backed so I am still amazed at how much he has already given and how much more he is still able to give - I really wish you the best of luck and I am sure with your attitude, you and your horse will do really well together, I have such a great bond with my horse, even better than before and I am sure the rehab programme really helped that, I am still very glad that I went ahead with the op and I sincerely hope it all works out for you.

 

[seabiscuit]

This is a video of Owen lunging about 5 months post op...before he refused to go round in circles and just napped, and he could not maintain canter.


Recently he has also become much looser in his shoulders as well which has made his movement bigger.

 

[debradley]

Thanks for the video. I see what you mean having the pessoa really tight. I haven't got honey anywhere near that tight at the moment, but even if I did I think she would just not be able to move at all at the moment. I spoke with Willesley Clinic this afternoon and they have confirmed that they will be more than happy to have a look at honey, given that I get the go ahead from the insurance and referral from vet; and they should be able to fit her in early May, so fingers crossed we should be on the road to recovery soon, I hope.