Kissing spines - what to do?

[those-ears]

My mare has been diagnosed with KS, the affecting ones are L16 & L17, there are significant bony changes going on and the vet says its quite severe. The other vertebrae and close together, not touching but my concern is that these will change too. My vet also mentioned that this could be a possibility.
Mare is a full TB, rising 7 and originally diagnosed last year, since had 1 year off work to see if it would settle (the inflammation) but still there, reaction is seen when touching the area. The mare was hacking out and jumping on a regular basis and showing a real talent XC. The problem really started to show when working in an outline, she would toss her head up and down (typical signs of back pain). It would be a real shame to retire one so young, but with me she does have a home for life. I have another who is now my main riding horse so not entirely the end of the world as i am very lucky to have my own land so she costs peanuts to keep.
Vet is keen to try the operation, it is alot of money and only a 60% success rate - i am not insured. Although am not strapped for cash, i would have to save up for a short while - not as if the money is sitting in an account also with a young family and an anti-horse OH i would take alot of ear-ache for paying out for the mares operation.
She is 100% comfortable living out and seems quite happy to be brought in and groomed etc then to go back out with companions, its just a darn shame as she had a lot of potential.
Part of me wants to go for it in the spring, but the other part of me is thinking it may not work (don't have much luck!!) or the other part could go the same way? nothings guaranteed.
I could retire her and just concentrate on my other horse which i would be happy doing, but the other half thinks what if.......
I do miss riding her

So has anyone had the operation? what was the recovery like? did it work? is the horse back in full work ie jumping/dressage etc??

Thanks

 

[Wagtail]

My horse had the op two months ago. He had ten spines touching! Some were actually fused together. It was one of the worse cases the vets had seen. He had the operation to remove five spinous processes, and even though I am not nearly through the rehab I am so pleased I had it done. Like you, I keep my horses for life and he could have just been retired. I had reservations about putting him through such a major op just so I could ride him. I thought it was selfish. However, I was not 100% sure he was happy in the field. Sometimes he seemed ok, but other times he looked really pottery and I began to wonder just how much pain he was in even not being ridden. So that was what spurred me on to have the op done. He was never really visibly uncomfortable at all when I brought him home a week after the operation. He was on bute for a few days and I had to change his dressing most days as it kept coming off. But there was no weeping of the wound or inflamation. A week after he came home he had his staples removed. A week after that, I was allowed to walk him out in hand twice daily. He had his moments, but was pretty well behaved considering. After the walking in hand for two weeks he was allowed to be turned out in a small paddock. I have used the sand turnout as didn't want him slipping.

To say that he is a changed animal is an understatement. His walk stride was visibly longer from the day I walked him to the trailer when I fetched him from hospital. His trot is much bigger and his canter looks much better too. He is the bouciest, naughtiest horse I have ever seen at liberty. He is like a pogo stick boinging along, spining around on his hind legs and generally annoying his companions. So I can see that he was a very subdued horse now before the op as he very rarely behaved like a spring lamb then.

I have no idea if I will be able to ride him as we do not start even the long reining for another month. I think he's more than ready to do something though!

So in summary, even not knowing whether the operation has been a success in terms of whether I have a ridable horse, I do recommend it because I know that I have a much happier and more comfirtable horse at the end of it.

As your mare only has two impinging spines, but the rest are very close, then I would probably wait 6 months or more and have her re xrayed then. As it would be pointless operating and then finding she has more trouble. I think this is part of the problem with those ops that do not succeed.

I had him operated on at Rossdales and it was around £2500 for the procedure. I chose to have him kept awake standing under sedation as I did not want anything going wrong at 'knock down' or recovery. I believe that there is a much cheaper and less invasive procedure done at Cotts Equine in Wales, which does not remove the spines, but just snips the ligaments between which results in the spines separating. It may be more suitable for cases such as your mares where the spines are not quite so bad.

Good luck with her whatever you decide.

 

[Goldenstar]

I have just had one with kissing spines not the same of yours as an older horse with other issues as well
When I told the equine body worker who does mine about it she said don't go there, I had already decided that I would not send mine for surgery as one of his other problems was spavins and I thought the box rest after surgery plus the time out of work would be a disaster for him.
vets always want to do stuff it's what their trained to do and it pays their bills. when I told the vet that I was not going for it I was told that's what I would have done if it was mine.
Hopefully lots of people with experiance of the op will answer your thread and it will help you make up your mind.
Also trawl the Internet to get a good idea of what the op entails and try and work out how likely she is to return to jumping and all the things you like to do.
My horses dorsal ligament was involved and that made the prognosis even more guarded.
Good luck it's a hard time for you.

 

[Wagtail]

I have just had one with kissing spines not the same of yours as an older horse with other issues as well
When I told the equine body worker who does mine about it she said don't go there, I had already decided that I would not send mine for surgery as one of his other problems was spavins and I thought the box rest after surgery plus the time out of work would be a disaster for him.
vets always want to do stuff it's what their trained to do and it pays their bills. when I told the vet that I was not going for it I was told that's what I would have done if it was mine.
Hopefully lots of people with experiance of the op will answer your thread and it will help you make up your mind.
Also trawl the Internet to get a good idea of what the op entails and try and work out how likely she is to return to jumping and all the things you like to do.
My horses dorsal ligament was involved and that made the prognosis even more guarded.
Good luck it's a hard time for you.

Just wanted to add that my gelding also has bone spavin in both hocks. He did not have dorsal ligament damage though.

 

[those-ears]

Thank you for your responses.

Wagtail - Great news about your horse, sounds as though its made a difference
Does the recovery involve alot of box rest - how long was your horse stabled for? My mare won't stable, she goes mad so has to be out 24/7.
This is another factor for me to take into account aswell as the cost of livery (i don't have stables just grazing)

I said she wasnt in pain, but how do you really know? i've been having a long think about it. She always looks happy enough and certainly enjoys a good blast around the field with her companions?!

 

[PercyMum]

I have had 2 horses with KS. There wasn't a massive difference with the first as it turned out that the 6 (yes 6) saddlers (including some of the 'best' in the business) had been giving him a saddle that was far too long for him, which was probably the real reason for his bucking (17hh and has to have a 16" saddle - turns out he has some weird deformed ribs ). However, now he jumps and moves much better and it was probably the right thing to do, between the saddle and the op.

The other horse had very bad KS, but was not in any obvious pain. He didn't buck, just couldnt hold an outline and wouldn't muscle up. I too had him operated on and I wish he never had. He undoubtedly was much better in his movement, and became a truly gorgeous muscled horse BUT I truly believe that he found the whole process so stressful, he was never the same. He never jumped or hacked again without panicking. He became difficult when out and everything became hugely traumatic for him. I ended up putting him out on permanent loan to a lovely little old (but HUGELY competent) lady who schools him up to Adv level at home but he doesn't go anywhere and never has his routine altered. Its like he couldn't deal with anything after the op and everything must be kept absolutely the same or he just cannot cope. Horsey PTSD???

I think it depends on your horse. If its stoic and sensible (like my first one) then i would consider it. If not, and a bit more highly strung (like my second) then I would look at going down the Tyldren route to start with. I know that the op causes a mixture of opinion in some vet circles. I don't think there is a right or wrong decision, as only you know your horse but best of luck with whatever you decide to do

 

[Wagtail]

Thank you for your responses.

Wagtail - Great news about your horse, sounds as though its made a difference
Does the recovery involve alot of box rest - how long was your horse stabled for? My mare won't stable, she goes mad so has to be out 24/7.
This is another factor for me to take into account aswell as the cost of livery (i don't have stables just grazing)

I said she wasnt in pain, but how do you really know? i've been having a long think about it. She always looks happy enough and certainly enjoys a good blast around the field with her companions?!

If your mare won't stable then you could still have the op done but confine her with electric fencing in a very small area within the field (about the size of two stable would be fine.) I have had horses on 'box rest' before during the summer and have successfully kept them like this. My horse was on strict box rest for two weeks and then had a further two weeks box rest with in hand walking. The first week of box rest was at the hospital. They are used to dealing with horses that do not stable well there and would probably keep your mare sedated most of the time so that she was more relaxed.