Kissing Spines... Would you consider it?

Got one that has been (she was ours long before the problem was diagnosed) and there is no way I'd want to knowingly get involved a horse with that sort of history, no matter how nice it was.
 
hmm hard one this, my Mum's horse who is now 26 and still going was operated on as a 14 year old, he fully recovered and went on to do a bit of everything with Mum. He is still hacked out now to keep him ticking over.
 
Guys, your talking rubbish!
Firstly, it does not 'come back' there are no such things as repercussions, once a horse is operated on, providing that there are no other problems within the horse, there is every chance that the horse will return to a fully active career and not have any setbacks.
There are many fantastic horses around that have been operated on and they have achieved a lot of success and had long and fruitfull careers.
Dont always write them off.
 
No way. I have a mare with kissing spine. If the horse had been operated on, or the vet said it was safe to do some work then I'd take a horse on loan. The thing about a loaned horse is you can send it back.
I know that some horses go on to do well with this condition, but it's horrible if they don't. My mare is getting progressively worse, can't be ridden and lives on level fields in retirement.
 
There is every chance that if the horse has been operated on it may be fine for the rest of it's life. That is true, but when I was discussing this with the vet who diagnosed my mare he indicated that in some horses, as it is a progressive condition, they might have problems in the future.
That is if the horse that we are talking about here has had the op, it might not have done. Not all horses are suitable candidates. In others the problem is limited and they seem to cope. My mare had been coping unbeknown to me for some time. The day she stopped coping was very scarey.
I would however be clear about the diagnosis and how it was made before you make a final decision. Kissing spine is regularly mis-diagnosed. It can only be checked for sure if the horse is put under and xrayed. So whatever we say, you'd need to talk to the vet.
 
Did you want a pasture ornament?

Not all horses recover perfectly from the op - it depends who did it, what the pathology was and how they've been rehabilitated aftewards. The insurance company wouldnt' touch you for anything in the spinal area.

and I'd have to ask how it was being ridden before? It seems to me that ks is directly a result of horses being held in and not allowed to go long and low.

there are a lot of good horses out there without kissing spines...

look for another unless you just want a friend
 
"It seems to me that ks is directly a result of horses being held in and not allowed to go long and low."
Well, that's not true. My mare had only recently been backed when she was diagnosed and we certainly hadn't got beyond the long and low stage. The vet and I are fairly certain she had it when she was a yearling, she had the same symptoms then, but in spite of a trip to the Royal Vets they didn't find it. I spent 4 years knowing she wasn't right and pestering vets before they finally saw it and tried again. (After we'd had a particularly hairy episode when I was riding her).
It is thought that kissing spine can be hereditary, and also caused by some sort of high impact damage like a fall. Even the sort of fall that could happen in the field and the humans were unaware of.
 
I've had a lot of response, thanks guys
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I'll go see him, since he's EXACTLY what we want, but I'll be VEY critical.

He'll be a happy hacker, really, but I'd like a thoroughbred or something a teensy bit heavier because I'd like to get into dressage.
 
Well if he's evented since the op than he must be ok!
FYI, for all the people who said 'no', kissing spine surgery is a very simple procedure removing useless bits of exccess bone growth/ calcification from the vertebrate. Its hardly a major procedure. I know people think that its a big op, but its not.Its a very routine operation and quite honestly there are many many horses successfully competing and racing after their operations.
 
Yes, I will speak from experience of having a horse with kissing spines and you would never know he has ever had an op unless you look very closely and it certainly hass improved his performance. Were you looking to buy a horse who has had this op? How long ago and what level is it training at, in what disapline?
 
Good luck Deadpan, if he's the right horse for you then you'll have him regardless.
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Forrest, I said no because I have a horse with kissing spine, and believe me I went into the whole thing very thoroughly. My answer would still be no, because there are so many horses for sale that don't come with this sort of history.
If a horse has had the surgery and has been competing with no problems after then fair enough. But it isn't really fair to say it is a very routine operation, because it isn't that straightforward. There are variables which can mean that for some it is quite routine but for others it isn't, success isn't guaranteed, and some horses aren't considered suitable candidates for surgery at all.
Even if you get a horse that is working well after the op, it may be worth finding out what the exclusions will be on your insurance. We all know how much horse they manage to exclude once there has been a medical problem.
Maybe this is a sensitive subject for me, but I know I am not the only one here who has had to retire a mare as their kissing spine is so severe that they are not considered suitable for the op. And even if they were, my vet was very clear that the op wasn't always a success.
 
Not many seem to be offered the operation though? Of the 6 people I know who's horses had KS. One had the Op, it didn't work and was still dangerous so the horse was PTS. One was PTS without the offer of an op. One had physio and was OK after, and the other 3 are retired.

Don't know the whys and wherefores - ie whether lack of funds/insurance to pay vets fees. But there we are.
 
I can tell you the why in my case madhossy (like that name!). My mare has 6 vertebrae kissing, and significant bony growth. The vet considered that she wasn't suitable for the op for 2 reasons. First, he realised that although it hadn't been diagnosed earlier, this was obviously a long-standing problem and he felt it had progressed too far for the op to have a good chance of working. Second, he had observed her getting extremely stressed during her short stay at his hospital, and didn't think either she or his vet nurses would survive the course.
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Sadly, even retired, I can see that the condition has progressed, and the vet confirms this. She is happy now, but there will come a time when a difficult decision has to be made. And as a result of the previous investigations to find out what was wrong with her she has ended up with exclusions for both her back legs, pelvic problems, OCD AND kissing spine! So it would really be worth checking which bits of the new horse you could insure.
 
though i dont entirely disagree with forrest i can think of at least one eventer that competed to a high level after but was a pshyco at home and to get on and neeeded lunging for hours before its extremely famous and brave rider got on. two seasons competing after but has now been given up with and lives in field as two difficult to manage. and another former 4* horse that is bumbling about in Nov classes for same sort of reasons, just take care whenn looking!
 
It seems to me that a number of people need to go away and find out exactly what this condition is, as Forrest says it does not come back, prey tell how the tops of removed vertebrae can reform????
As for it being caused by horses not allowed to go long and low what utter b******s, my horse had the op in 2006 and he was four and barely ridden so how 'being held in' would apply, well words fail me!!!!!
 
The condition is arthritic changes in the spine so there can be any number of causes. If it's some sort of developmental joint disorder then of course it will show up relatively early (before the spine "closes" at 6-7) and possibly in concert with other issues. If the "chips" or increased bone is taken out then, just like OCD surgery in other joints, everything should be fine. Same with changes from an injury.

If the horse developed it from repetative strain, especially from a structural weakness, then I guess there might be the chance of further problems if the situation is not significantly changed. If the issues are conformational or the result of some predisposition then there might not be much to do to guard against a reoccurance short of removing all stress on the horse's back, which means no riding. If the problems are work related then a reduction in stress might allow the horse to continue being useful at a reduced level.

As to methods of riding being implicated in both the cause and the rehabilitation of the condition . . . well, there are people looking into that. There is some evidence that riding horses with particular conformations very short in their necks can compress the joints and cause problems. Making that call is a bit like saying longing can contribute to leg joint arthritis. Are we talking judicious longing of a sound, well conformend horse, on a good surface with frequent changes of direction etc? Or are we talking endless longing on crap ground of a horse with soundness/shoeing/conformational issues. I think most of us would agree the latter scenerio would cause harm, whilst the former one would most likely not.

If you love the horse and want to go ahead, see if you can find out a bit about the operation - what exactly was done and what outcome was predicted at the time. Try to get actual records for your vet to look at.
 
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