Kissing spines

[Tashagrahamx]

Has anyone had kissing spine surgery on there horse ? My girl is booked in for surgery next Wednesday and I feel physically sick unsure if am doing the right thing , how she’s going to feel , will it work or won’t it.
Can anyone offer any advice or suggestions and put my mind at ease
? if your horse had surgery how did it cope and what was the prognosis
Thank you

 

[Amymay Again]

A few on here have had surgery for KS. Hopefully posters will be along shortly to advise you.

 

[Tashagrahamx]

A few on here have had surgery for KS. Hopefully posters will be along shortly to advise you.

Thank you

 

[sbloom]

I'm not convinced by surgery but it all depends on the case, many horses have visible changes but no symptoms, and some of those in the most serious pain have less serious looking xrays.

Just make sure, either way, that your rehab addresses posture, most sadly simply looks to get the horse back to work, perhaps a bit stronger. We need to change the way they move, as it's the way they move, their posture, that is at issue, even if they are genetically more likely to get it. Vet and even some physio rehab programmes (the worst still recommend Pessoas which is astounding) just don't look towards changing the horse's balance, restoring the function of its thoracic sling etc, and so often we then simply see further problems in SI or hocks etc, chasing symptoms across the body.

I have a list of groundwork links that I send to all my new customers, happy to send it through if you pm me an email address, it's not a bad place to start. This is a freebie you could join now

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid02XQLA7BbbY2EukAksnuivhVh6inhSAPU9vTKxbCSejLkUHokYUnqhpk49JjEfUtsUl&id=100016043802653

, not KS specific, but good, postural stuff. Equitopiacenter.com is also good for education on this sort of thing and is cheap to join.

 

[HopOnTrot]

What surgery are you having?

Mine had 4 ligament snips last year, my advise would be that it’s not a cure, you have to follow rehab and physio for the rest of their lives but it has helped now she has no pain.

 

[Tashagrahamx]

What surgery are you having?

Mine had 4 ligament snips last year, my advise would be that it’s not a cure, you have to follow rehab and physio for the rest of their lives but it has helped now she has no pain.

She’s also having the lig snip I have been doing the rahab for 8 months now so hind of have an idea but she’s clearly in pain at the moment and rugging is becoming more and more challenging

 

[Tashagrahamx]

I'm not convinced by surgery but it all depends on the case, many horses have visible changes but no symptoms, and some of those in the most serious pain have less serious looking xrays.

Just make sure, either way, that your rehab addresses posture, most sadly simply looks to get the horse back to work, perhaps a bit stronger. We need to change the way they move, as it's the way they move, their posture, that is at issue, even if they are genetically more likely to get it. Vet and even some physio rehab programmes (the worst still recommend Pessoas which is astounding) just don't look towards changing the horse's balance, restoring the function of its thoracic sling etc, and so often we then simply see further problems in SI or hocks etc, chasing symptoms across the body.

I have a list of groundwork links that I send to all my new customers, happy to send it through if you pm me an email address, it's not a bad place to start. This is a freebie you could join now

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid02XQLA7BbbY2EukAksnuivhVh6inhSAPU9vTKxbCSejLkUHokYUnqhpk49JjEfUtsUl&id=100016043802653

, not KS specific, but good, postural stuff. Equitopiacenter.com is also good for education on this sort of thing and is cheap to join.

She has 4 vertebrates close but not touching , she hates being rugged and that’s becoming more and more of a challenge , riding wise unhappy at mounting block lot of tail swishing and wanting to buck she generally looks uncomfortable. We did injections and rehab for 8 months which went great until she had to have a spell out of work and now her backs sore again. She does have mild hock , knee and stifle arthritis along with the missing spines which is also being treated

 

[Amymay Again]

She has 4 vertebrates close but not touching , she hates being rugged and that’s becoming more and more of a challenge , riding wise unhappy at mounting block lot of tail swishing and wanting to buck she generally looks uncomfortable. We did injections and rehab for 8 months which went great until she had to have a spell out of work and now her backs sore again. She does have mild hock , knee and stifle arthritis along with the missing spines which is also being treated

So a question, which I don't mean to be insensitive - if she has arthritis what are your aims after the surgery? Are you anticipating a continued ridden life or are you planning on retirement?

 

[Tashagrahamx]

Apparently it’s mild so vet wants me to continue with ridden work , she never appears stiff drags me to field on a Daily basic and runs round like a 3 year old

 

[Tashagrahamx]

So a question, which I don't mean to be insensitive - if she has arthritis what are your aims after the surgery? Are you anticipating a continued ridden life or are you planning on retirement?

Apparently it’s mild so vet wants me to continue with ridden work , she never appears stiff drags me to field on a Daily basic and runs round like a 3 year old

 

[BronsonNutter]

Be prepared for her to be more sensitive about being rugged during the initial post-operative phase - just a word of warning! After a while it settles down but most tend to worry about weight going onto their backs initially. Lots and lots of rehab for the back and most of them do best when in regular consistent work, so ensuring the hind legs are as comfy as possible also is equally important.

 

[Tashagrahamx]

Be prepared for her to be more sensitive about being rugged during the initial post-operative phase - just a word of warning! After a while it settles down but most tend to worry about weight going onto their backs initially. Lots and lots of rehab for the back and most of them do best when in regular consistent work, so ensuring the hind legs are as comfy as possible also is equally important.

thank you that is really helpful, she currently hates being rugged so I always make sure I take my time and try keep everything positive with rewarding . She does have some other stuff going on in her legs which will be injected before we start our proper rehab journey. Am so so nervous and worried but I also really hope it works and for her to be a least more comfortable in her back

 

[sbloom]

What sort of rehab have you been doing so far?

 

[Tashagrahamx]

What sort of rehab have you been doing so far?

Walking, walking and more walking . Pole work , long reining , lunging long and low and we do stretches everyday

 

[Birker2020]

Walking, walking and more walking . Pole work , long reining , lunging long and low and we do stretches everyday

You sound like you are doing a great job. Is your rehab plan inconjunction with a physio?

From what I've read doing belly lifts, hill work and backing up but seek professional advice first.

Good luck!

 

[Tashagrahamx]

You sound like you are doing a great job. Is your rehab plan inconjunction with a physio?

From what I've read doing belly lifts, hill work and backing up but seek professional advice first.

Good luck!

Yes we work very closely with a vet physio that has been helping us for some time now . Am really undecided if I should do surgery or try injections again . She was back in full work and going excellent with first lot of injections but a spell of lameness meaning no work being done lead to her back becoming sore again .
She’s sore or palpitation , doesn’t like being rugged but seems pretty happy and comfortable in stable and field happily trots around like a 3 years old and drags me to field , ridden wise we had on off lameness , lots of tail swishing and wanting to buck bit fidgety at mounting block . I really wish she could speak so I know what is best to do treatment wise

 

[ycbm]

I've been holding off posting this but since you are unsure about going ahead, I will.

I don't understand how vets continue describing this chisel hammered down between two DSPs as a "snip". The surgeon was sweating with the effort of it. It's a serious operation, I'd never do it to another, especially not one that has known problems in the hind legs or SI.

 

[Tashagrahamx]

I've been holding off posting this but since you are unsure about going ahead, I will.

I don't understand how vets continue describing this chisel hammered down between two DSPs as a "snip". The surgeon was sweating with the effort of it. It's a serious operation, I'd never do it to another, especially not one that has known problems in the hind legs or SI.

Thank you yes am really unsure what to do but worried injections aren’t working as well as they should be etc

 

[sbloom]

Walking, walking and more walking . Pole work , long reining , lunging long and low and we do stretches everyday

But have you changed her balance, have you stabilised her? 100% not a dig, but an attempt to get us all to think differently. Yes, a little stretching is needed to open up the DSPs, but we focus on stretching, we lower the head....and this all works against correct work that focuses on tensegrity, ie if you stretch one part what happens to the rest of the body, as everything is linked especially by the fascial chains.

Lowering the head and neck puts more weight on the front legs, and horses naturally fall forwards as it is...so what happens? They have to find other ways to stop themselves falling forwards...they use the wrong muscles, the thoracic sling has little chance to build up as you've already put MORE weight on it, you've added excess load. Pole work adds load in terms of increasing range of motion, again it can be useful in part, but so often it's used on unstable horses that aren't moving symmetrically, and it both increases that instability and strengthens the wrong areas as they attempt to stabilise.

We have SO few physios, vets, trainers who have this sort of outlook, so we end up with horses that stay dysfunctional, even if they look more muscular.

Do some reading - Equitopia, Science of Motion (though good luck, it's a bit impenetrable), Annie Dillon and Equimetric on Facebook....there is SO much more to good KS rehab than we think, and the best things we can learn initially is to observe our horse, to know when they are comfortable in an exiercise and when they are not, to understand what we are trying to achieve and whether we are actually doing the work correctly so we can observe that improvement, and, if not, then where to go next.

One trainer I know had a horse in that was SO crooked she could not improve the horse at all on one rein, yet the other rein offered her chinks of improvement. She stuck on one rein for not minutes or hours, but days/weeks. She could not only directly benefit the worse rein even on the better rein (counter bending, whatever) but improving one side brought the other side with it. Observation, feel and creative thinking, a bit of a tangent but hopefully you see the relevance.

This is all my best current understanding, which is all we can ever do, but it always seeks to put the horse, and healthy movement, at the centre of everything.