Know it alls and experienced advice, where is the line?

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the watcher

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following on from another post - where is the line drawn or the difference?

If I saw somebody doing something really wrong or dangerous I would say something, I can't help myself, it is in my nature. Would that make me a know it all or a responsible person?

...without wishing to provoke an arguement of course
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A responsible person providing you don't point it out rudely or in a sneering manner. It is far better people are told if things are really wrong but I always try not to offend.
 
I think it more depends on how the advice is given! I will say something when I feel it neccessary but try and phrase it as a "why don't you try..." or " did you know that can be dangerous / harmful..." rather than steaming in all guns blazing saying "don't do that you idiot!" Unless of course the situation requires a short and snappy response!
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I think a lot of it is not what you say, but how you say it. Soem people can come across as know it alls just because of the way they go about imparting the information, whereas other people are so subtle and nice about it, you really appreciate their advice without being made to feel stupid.
 
I don't think there's any harm - and you might avoid harm/danger happening too - but as long as you can be pleasant about it and not come down too heavy handed. I am known for not suffering fools gladly but I would still hate to be rude and arrogant about it!
 
I do think the way advice is offered makes a huge difference. "I hope you don't mind me pointing out that acorns are actually poisonous, so shouldn't be fed to horses" is constructive advice. "Oh my god, you blithering idiot, you'll going to kill that horse by feeding it acorns" isn't!

Having said that, there are always a few people with chips on their shoulders who object to advice however nicely it is given.
 
i would offer my opinion, but i wouldn't say in a straight way as i wouldnt like to be made out to be stupid, im not saying everybodies like that but some people ARE,

if it was REALLY dangerous i would say it a bit more blunt, but as for the acorns i didnt know they were poisonous either!!

i like to think of myself as responsable not a know it all!!!!!

sophie xxx
 
i would say responsible
BUT folks will see it from many different ways and some folks hate to be told.
But i'm in camp of if putting animal life or human life in danger will step up - but if not, weigh up situation before stepping
 
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I think it more depends on how the advice is given! I will say something when I feel it neccessary but try and phrase it as a "why don't you try..." or " did you know that can be dangerous / harmful..." rather than steaming in all guns blazing saying "don't do that you idiot!" Unless of course the situation requires a short and snappy response!
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Ditto, its not whats said but how its said
 
i think as long as your advice is genuine and you can back it up with reasoning i.e you need to do it this way because then i think it should be greatly received however there is no harm in a friendly debate over different methods. but when advice becomes a critisism i personally get slightly offended. when offering my opinion i either ask why they are doing thing like that or whatever and simply state that i do it differently because.
 
I try to keep myself to myself unless asked as everyone has their own opinions and if I said something I would just spend the whole time at the yard commenting and not enjoying my own horses. But will say something if its putting a horse in danger or in discomfort of course
 
I would have to say something because I am a gobby cow lol!! Seriously tho its all about how you say it and whether the person wishes to listen or whether you think you can benefit someone with extra information.

IE, local fun ride the other day, lady had been trying to load a clearly stubborn so and so on to her trailer. Didnt want to intefere as you know how annoying that can be so left her to it. Hour later still there so I wandered over with the chifney (loan horsey is very strongheaded on the lead), was polite and said did she want to borrow it, if so feel free, she must have been so hacked off and bored waiting for this horse who was taking the mickey...

She was a first time owner and grateful for the help and of course neddy went straight onto trailer little git! - and I said you must yell next time, but people tend to stay out of it in case they get accused of being know it alls, rather than being helpful.

But can you imagine if that was someone else, you would try and help and make sure they could get home and the barrage of abuse you would get lol!!! - I left it 2 good hours...!!
 
Good for you marsden, poor woman must have been close to tears by then and soooo thankful for your help!

When I arrived home after riding today there was a woman stood on the other side of the road on her horse, who was fidgeting and looking a bit nervy. I could hear the children were out in the schoolyard so wondered whether he wouldn't go past them - so I shouted over and asked if she wanted a hand and she laughed and said no she was waiting for someone - but I had to ask, would have felt mean not to!
 
I learned most of my best pieces of advice when I was a child, from these perceived "know-it-alls". So long as they do know it all, then who cares how they put it across to you? The outcome is exactly the same - you LEARN!!!

I actually don't feel it is important at all how it is put across, so long as the message gets through. Sadly the problem often comes from the recipient of the information; they appear to become all irritated because of their own ignorance and sadly often don't take the good advice and blithely continue to be an irresponsible/ignorant horse owner.

To learn is good - who cares what manner that teaching comes over. Get over yourselves, any knowledgeable advice is NOT said to make you feel better or worse, but for the horse's benefit. This is where the BIG PICTURE comes in.
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Tia, you've just made me feel better about myself when i really can't keep it buttoned in. There I was thinking it is OK to be a busybody as long as you are nice about it, but you have reassured me that i don't need to worry about that either
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Don't get me started on this subject..... you will never shut me up!

The horse world is full of people who know more than you, could do it better than you and take great pride in making you look like a fool when you are struggling.

Most of these people couldn't do it any better themselves, which is why they they spend all their time telling you - and everyone else who is willing to listen - what you are doing wrong and how they could do it so much better - and not actually helping you and showing you how to do it right, without making you look or feel stupid.

Rant over.
 
Whilst I see your point, I have to disagree in some respects. When giving advice I try to be polite for two reasons:

1. It is just good manners for a start, I see no reason to be rude just for the sake of it!

2. I find if you are polite and constructive then people are quite happy to come back to you again to ask more advice, whereas if you are rude and put them down they become inhibited and have a nasty tendency to try and sort things out for themselves
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. I agree that in an ideal world people shouldn't be like this, but the fact is that they are and by bearing that in mind we can make things better for their horses.

On the other hand, there are times when rudeness IS called for, when a horse's welfare is seriously compromised and the owner/carer is ignoring polite advice, then I would have no hesitation in being rude if it got results.
 
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I learned most of my best pieces of advice when I was a child, from these perceived "know-it-alls". So long as they do know it all, then who cares how they put it across to you? The outcome is exactly the same - you LEARN!!!

I actually don't feel it is important at all how it is put across, so long as the message gets through. Sadly the problem often comes from the recipient of the information; they appear to become all irritated because of their own ignorance and sadly often don't take the good advice and blithely continue to be an irresponsible/ignorant horse owner.

To learn is good - who cares what manner that teaching comes over. Get over yourselves, any knowledgeable advice is NOT said to make you feel better or worse, but for the horse's benefit. This is where the BIG PICTURE comes in.
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I'm afraid I disagree. If person A were to come across all "know it all" to person B, I'm pretty sure in the majority of cases person B would be so hacked off that they'd pay less attention to the information than if person A had said it in a nice, helpful and constructive way.

It's human nature really to accept niceness over nastiness, even if the basics and knowledge being imparted are exactly the same. Why wouldn't you listen more to someone who is being nice, helpful and respectful over someone who is coming across os snide, condescending or rude?

I'd say it's manners to try and treat others as you'd like to be treated and it does make a difference how someone says something. Even if they do "know it all" (which lets face it, no one REALLY does!
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), there's not excuse for being rude or nasty to others who may be genuinely unaware but willing to listen and learn.
 
Well that's the old "inferiority complex" coming into play yet again. I couldn't care less whether someone says something nice or nasty.....I am ONLY interested in the knowledge they have to pass on.

You know I think you have inadvertantly hit the nail on the head about why there are SOOO many ignorant horse owners - people who have an aversion to listening to "not nice people" tend to sit listening to all the guff that "nice people" (who very often just say any old thing to make people feel better) put their way, instead of going off to research ALL information put across to them; often valuable information regardless of whether they be nice or not.

Once again I say, any information anyone receives, should be checked out because it is not for that person's benefit, it is purely for the horse's benefit. Responsible horse owners will always question any advice they are given - dopes will often only listen to purely nice people.
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I think that's a bit unfair. I'm not saying I (or others) only listen to "nice" people, I'm saying that someone who barges in with criticism and is being rude is only going to get peoples backs up and make them less inclined to listen, even if their knowledge is sound. Why would you want to impart your knowledge/alienate people in this way anyway?

It's not difficult to have a little tact and the social skills and manners to approach the situation in a nice manner and get the same point across.
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I'm saying that someone who barges in with criticism and is being rude is only going to get peoples backs up and make them less inclined to listen, even if their knowledge is sound.

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Well then if they do that then they quite obviously don't just have an inferiority complex but also are incredibly silly.

The point is not whether the people imparting information are nice or nasty - the point is gaining valuable advice and learning from it. If people can't see past their own issues then I feel sorry for their horses.
 
If it's in the best interests of the horse, then fair enough. If it's of the 'didn't you know...gosh, what a moron!' variety then they can sod off and assert their superiority elsewhere.
 
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The point is not whether the people imparting information are nice or nasty - the point is gaining valuable advice and learning from it. If people can't see past their own issues then I feel sorry for their horses.

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But that IS the point of this thread- eg "know it alls" who come across as rude or "experienced advice" which is usually given much more tactfully and is far better received. You don't have to be rude to be right!! (and vice versa, nice people aren't necessarily wrong!)

I really just don't agree that it's acceptable to be rude/nast/condescending to people no matter what you are discussing or telling them- it's basic manners IMO and everyone deserves to be treated with respect unless they prove otherwise.

As with anything else in life, I make my own decisions by weighing up all the options, doing as much research as I can and choosing what's right for me/my situation.
 
I think the line is very much in the opinion of the receiver, unfortunately. People who genuinely want help usually ask for it or put themselves in a position to receive it.

It's been interesting to me that people who REALLY know their stuff (Olympic medallists, fantastic riders, successful producers - those sorts) are generally more reticent about how they present their opinions and much more likely to provoke discussion rather than lecture, at least outside a purely instructional capacity. Or if you work for them.;) Most of my experience has been that truly great horsemen are relatively humble people, although if you ask for their opinions they will certainly give them, as they also tend to be stringently honest. Sometimes to a fault.;)

I think often offering help to someone in trouble is taken better than offering a censorious lecture - after all the first necessity is to remove immediate danger and then to hopefully educate. I think it's also important not to take it too personally if one is rebuffed and turn it into an argument. People are actually entitled to their own opinions - however distasteful or even dangerous - and often arguing just makes them more set. Leading by example is just as important. Trust me, if you're doing something a whole lot more "right" than the people around you people will notice.

One thing I do squirm at is people offering advice and then not being able to back it up. I know it's possible to know about something one doesn't actually know how to do but I think the practical application of that is limited to pretty rarified levels of riding. I always feel very discouraged if I listen to someone who sounds okay and then I see them ride and am dissapointed. That may not be fair but it does make me question their advice and their right to give it.

As to checking out advice, of course. Why wouldn't you? But the question is partly who do you trust? Someone on the internet? That's a good source of information perhaps but I'm not sure about advice. Anyway, the vast majority of what is important with horses has to be seen to be accurately assessed. And I want to see the person work, or at least hear good reviews from people I trust. I have certainly gone to clinics with "good" riders where the only pertinent thing I learned was never to be taught by that person again.Does that make me unwilling to learn? Or discerning? Can't have it both ways.:) And I've learned useful things from people who were so objectionable they made me cry but I realise for some people they can't get past that. It's easy to say "suck it up" but surely if the main concern is helping the horse then it makes sense to package the advice in whatever way it will be swallowed.

As to people being "too nice", yes that absolutely happens. All the time. My usual rule is that if people are telling me only and all what I want to hear they are lying to me.
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